The Prophet Jonah and the Spirit of Calvinism

[cygnusx1]

My question still stands.

Why preach the gospel if God ALREADY has decided who will be saved and who is going to hell.

Calvinist are like Jonah they have already decided who will be saved and who won't.

Why go preach to the wicked in Nineveh? They are all going to hell anyway.

BUT , what if God has decided to save THE ELECT through the foolishness of preaching ? are you saying the use of means are pointless > that would make you a Fatalist .

Are you a fatalist ?

it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." I Corinthians 1:21

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Since the very beginning of mankind! Sadly...his (((own liberty))) has always been (((his own demise)))!!! Give any race of men the Power of GOD to Possess their own land & the blessing of freedom to live and go about freely as they please!!! From Humble beginning's , in the end the Evil Pride of (((Babylon))) and it's Evil World Dictator is alway's what you get! The currently reality of this "great supper power" called (((America)))!! Hastening ever so quickly to Her "great big fall" For:Isaiah 212) (KJV) For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: Isaiah 2:15 (KJV) And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
Isaiah 33:18 (KJV) Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers? WOW...the "Day of the LORD" seems to be...if my memory serves me correctly! i do recall a day that i shall never forget, as i watched on "Tell-A-Vision" two "Twin-great high-Tower's" in one small "hour", fall from the height's of the sky, brought as low as becoming Named: (((Ground Called Zero)))!!! striaght from the attack's of (((man-caused-terror)))!!!

Very interesting i must say! I wonder what shall begin to happen when the clock stricks (12)
Daniel (12):1 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Revelation (((20:12))) (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

So...so very interesting!!!

 

[Robert Pate]

Are you saying that it's not commanded?

So you think that the reason Paul risked his life preaching the gospel all over Asia was so that he could be obedient?

 

[Jpark]

My question still stands.

Why preach the gospel if God ALREADY has decided who will be saved and who is going to hell.

Calvinist are like Jonah they have already decided who will be saved and who won't.

Why go preach to the wicked in Nineveh? They are all going to hell anyway.

As I have said, God can change His mind about a person's predetermined fate.

And who said that they were going to go to hell? They might have been predetermined to go to hell, but not even predetermination has the final say.

The answer to your question is in 2 Tim. 2:25.

 

[Hammster]

So you think that the reason Paul risked his life preaching the gospel all over Asia was so that he could be obedient?

No, I think he was obedient to the COMMAND because he loved God and the Gospel. We should be motivated by the fact that God loved us enough to save us, even though we don't deserve it. He could have just left us to go to Hell.

So, it is a command. But we obey because we love God. Why do you disobey? Why aren't you in church? That's a command as well

 

[Hammster]

As I have said, God can change His mind about a person's predetermined fate.

No He can't.

 

[Jpark]

No He can't.

Scripture for that statement?

What is Jeremiah 18:7-10?

"At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better [rescind, reconsider] of the good with which I had promised to bless it.

A person who is predetermined to go to heaven can go to hell if he does not repent (for these people, the loss of salvation is always conditional and God does not cast them out from him).

A person who is predetermined to go to hell can go to heaven (this can be conditional (i.e. if he repents) and unconditional (it's up to God to decide)).

Or by saying He can't, do we want to set a limit on Him?

 

[nobdysfool]

My question still stands.

It has been answered, although it wasn't what was wanted.

Why preach the gospel if God ALREADY has decided who will be saved and who is going to hell.

Because God uses the Gospel to bring those whom He has chosen to Himself. What God decrees, He provides the means to bring it to pass, and He has graciously commissioned us to participate in the spreading of the Gospel (the means He has ordained) unto all the Earth, so that the elect hear it and are saved.

Calvinist are like Jonah they have already decided who will be saved and who won't.

No Calvinist has ever claimed or taught such a thing, nor would they. Your statement is a complete and utterly false accusation. It clearly demonstrates an abysmal lack of knowledge about Calvinism.

Why go preach to the wicked in Nineveh? They are all going to hell anyway.

Why preach? Because God has given us the task of spreading the Gospel. We preach, He does the saving, because He is the One Who gathers His own. It is not yours, or my responsibility to get them saved, nor can we. We faithfully preach the Word, and the Lord adds as many as have been ordained to Everlasting Life.

So, in even more detail, your question has been answered.

Now, please stop misrepresenting Calvinism, and Calvinists.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

It has been answered, although it wasn't what was wanted.



Because God uses the Gospel to bring those whom He has chosen to Himself. What God decrees, He provides the means to bring it to pass, and He has graciously commissioned us to participate in the spreading of the Gospel (the means He has ordained) unto all the Earth, so that the elect hear it and are saved.



No Calvinist has ever claimed or taught such a thing, nor would they. Your statement is a complete and utterly false accusation. It clearly demonstrates an abysmal lack of knowledge about Calvinism.



Why preach? Because God has given us the task of spreading the Gospel. We preach, He does the saving, because He is the One Who gathers His own. It is not yours, or my responsibility to get them saved, nor can we. We faithfully preach the Word, and the Lord adds as many as have been ordained to Everlasting Life.

So, in even more detail, your question has been answered.

Now, please stop misrepresenting Calvinism, and Calvinists.

Thanx bother...that was very beautifully spoken! Sorry for my confusing post!! More often than not, i have a hard time trying to put in word's the thought's i'm trying to exspress. But i always get blessed when ever i read any post that you make!!

SC,
God Bless You!

 

[Hammster]

Scripture for that statement?

What is Jeremiah 18:7-10?

"At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better [rescind, reconsider] of the good with which I had promised to bless it.

A person who is predetermined to go to heaven can go to hell if he does not repent (for these people, the loss of salvation is always conditional and God does not cast them out from him).

A person who is predetermined to go to hell can go to heaven (this can be conditional (i.e. if he repents) and unconditional (it's up to God to decide)).

Or by saying He can't, do we want to set a limit on Him?

I don't debate with Open Theists. You won't listen, anyway. I will just say you're wrong and move on.

 

[Jpark]

I don't debate with Open Theists. You won't listen, anyway. I will just say you're wrong and move on.

Something wrong with Open Theism?

If God can't change His plans and promises, then why does Job 34:14-15 imply so?

Job 34:14-15 "If He should determine to do so,
If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath,
All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.

God has promised a bright future for mankind yet this Scripture shows He can change His mind about mankind's future anytime He wishes.

By saying God can't change His mind about something, you are setting a limit on Him. God can do whatever He wishes.

Of course, God does not change His promises (James 1:17; John 6:37).

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

Rather, He changes His plans.

For example, God might not cast out the one who comes to Him, but He had planned to use the person in a powerful way to accomplish His purposes but because the person did not repent, He changed His plans for that person and uses him like any other pastor to this day.

Is God capable of changing His mind, His promises, and His plans? According to the Scriptures, yes.

But does God always change His plans? Not entirely if they are promises.

Does God change His promises? No.

But can He delay them? Yes, as seen in the OT, in which He delays Israel's entry into the promised land because of their disobedience.

 

[Hammster]

God is omniscient. That doesn't fly with Open Theism.

 

[cygnusx1]

Something wrong with Open Theism?

If God can't change His plans and promises, then why does Job 34:14-15 imply so?

Job 34:14-15 "If He should determine to do so,
If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath,
All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.

God has promised a bright future for mankind yet this Scripture shows He can change His mind about mankind's future anytime He wishes.

By saying God can't change His mind about something, you are setting a limit on Him. God can do whatever He wishes.

Of course, God does not change His promises (James 1:17; John 6:37).

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

Rather, He changes His plans.

For example, God might not cast out the one who comes to Him, but He had planned to use the person in a powerful way to accomplish His purposes but because the person did not repent, He changed His plans for that person and uses him like any other pastor to this day.

Is God capable of changing His mind, His promises, and His plans? According to the Scriptures, yes.

But does God always change His plans? Not entirely if they are promises.

Does God change His promises? No.

But can He delay them? Yes, as seen in the OT, in which He delays Israel's entry into the promised land because of their disobedience.

anthropomorphisms and anthropopathisms , simple.

modes , expressions and all manner of literary devices are used in scripture , taking any text in a 'wooden way' can only distort truth .

 

[Jpark]

God is omniscient. That doesn't fly with Open Theism.

Can you explain? How does being able to change His mind set a limit on His Omniscience? It only does so if God's Omniscience applies to God.

And God's Omniscience doesn't apply to God.

So God doesn't know what He's going to do in the future because that implies a automaton, dead, not alive, and it sets a limit on God by making everything He does predetermined.

What does the Scriptures mean by "living God"?

anthropomorphisms and anthropopathisms , simple.

modes , expressions and all manner of literary devices are used in scripture , taking any text in a 'wooden way' can only distort truth .

So then, how is God a personal God if He can't feel anger, sadness, or joy? From where do our emotions come from if they are not derived from God's emotions?

How do you explain the jealousy of God, which is manifested as God's desire to be with His people that He will kill many people, including some of His own, to keep His people clean and undefiled?

Numbers 25:6-11

 

[Hammster]

8 "Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

 

[DeaconDean]

I was listening to BBN (Bible Believers Network) radio tonight, and Erwin Lutzer was speaking on Jonah.

He said:

The great Charles Haddon Spurgeon said: "Jonah went into the belly of the whale an Arminian, but he came out a Calvinist."

Death To Self-Interest #1 of 2

Originqally broadcast Friday January 7, 2011, 01:00

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[drstevej]

"Jonah went into the belly of the whale an Arminian, but he came out a Calvinist." -- Spurgeon

Great Spurgeon quote.


The perfect response to the OP.
Selah!
This thread's ready to archive.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

That has to be one of the greatest quote's i have ever heard! Simple, and is air-tight logic that makes perfect sense!!!

 

[Robert Pate]

"Jonah went into the belly of the whale an Arminian, but he came out a Calvinist." -- Spurgeon

Great Spurgeon quote.


The perfect response to the OP.
Selah!
This thread's ready to archive.

No, Jonah was a Calvinist right from the get go. He had no confidence that God could save Nineveh (The world.) He didn't believe that wicked city would repent because they were not predestinated to do so. Jonah was surprised when the people of Nineveh did repent and turned to God.

That blew his Calvinist doctrine to bits. Did Jonah ever repent from his false beliefs? No, he got mad at God for proving him wrong. Very typical.

Jonah 4:1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry."

Jonah got so mad at God for proving him wrong that he wanted to die.

Jonah 4:3 "Therefore now O Lord take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live."

Here is a hard core Calvinist that when proven wrong would rather die than repent.

 

[drstevej]

He didn't believe that wicked city would repent because they were not predestinated to do so.

Prove this assertion or retract.