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The problem of omniscience

Kim7229

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Proof that it is logically impossible for anyone or anything to have infallible knowledge of yet to be made free choices.

Christians often make the claim that God knows everything. If asked for specifics, they’ll say this includes knowledge about the future (foreknowledge) and that such knowledge is infallible. Christians also often make the claim that man has free will. Upon being asked for specifics, they’ll agree that free will entails the ability to freely make a choice and that up until the time an option is chosen, a different option could have been chosen. At quick glance, these claims may not appear to be in conflict. However, if we dig a little deeper into each of these claims, we’ll see that they are.

Let’s say Pete is faced with a free choice of A or B. He is due to make this choice on Tuesday (day 2). We’ll call Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable Y - meaning if Pete chooses A, then variable Y gets a value of A and if Pete chooses B, then variable Y gets a value of B. This also means prior to day 2, variable Y has no value (or the choice lies in an unmade state), and on day 2, variable Y will acquire a value of either A or B – to be decided freely by Pete.

Given the Christian claim that God has infallible foreknowledge, this would mean God knows infallibly what A/B choice Pete will make when the choice still lies in an unmade state. To gain further clarity on this, it can be asked, “if it were asked on day 1 does God know infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, would the answer be YES?”. Christians would typically agree.

So we’ll call what is true on day 1 about God’s knowledge of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable X. In other words, if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose A, then variable X has a value of A - and if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose B, then variable X has a value of B. If on day 1 it is true that God knows infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, then it follows that X has a static or fixed value of either A or B as of day 1.

If asked for further specifics, such as what if Pete chooses something in conflict with what God knows he will choose, Christians will respond with the assertion that Pete will choose whatever God knows he will choose. This means that if variable X is equal to A, then variable Y must be equal to A; if variable Y is equal to B, then variable X must be equal to B, etc.

We now have three conditions:

1) X (or God's knowledge as of day 1 of Pete's day 2 A/B choice) has a value of either A or B on day 1 and this value is fixed and cannot change. If it is A, it will remain A. If it is B, it will remain B. This follows the assertion that God has infallible knowledge of future events.

2) Y (or Pete’s day 2 A/B choice) receives its value on day 2. Once Y receives its value, it becomes locked. Prior to receiving its value, it could potentially become A or B, as Pete freely chooses A or B. This follows the assertion that Pete has free will or can freely make choices.

3) X is equal to Y. This follows the assertion that whatever Pete chooses is precisely the same as what God knew he would choose.

Not all three of these conditions can be true.

If #1 & #2 are true, then #3 can’t be true, as X wouldn’t necessarily be equal to Y, nor would Y necessarily be equal to X. Not only would X receive a value at a different point in time than Y, but Y could be assigned a value in conflict with the static value of X.

If #1 & #3 are true, then #2 can’t be true. Pete wouldn’t be able to freely choose A or B, as variable Y would already be defined as being equal to variable X. Christians will often argue that God's knowledge of Pete’s future choice is a function of Pete’s day 2 choice. But this doesn’t hold true if the answer to the question “if asked on day 1, does God know what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be?” is YES.

If #2 & #3 are true, then #1 can’t be true. What this means is if variable Y gets its value on day 2, then variable X also gets its value on day 2 and gets the same value as variable Y. It then follows that God can’t have infallible knowledge on day 1 of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice.

Therefore, it is logically impossible for God (or anyone) to have infallible foreknowledge of a yet to be made free choice.

At a high level, what's going on is some people have made claims. These claims are equivalent to:

1) X has a value of A or B on day 1, meaning it must be equal to A or equal to B as of day 1. This is derived from the Christian claim that if asked on day 1, "does God know what Pete will choose tomorrow", they would say "yes".

2) Y gets a value of A or B on day 2, meaning Y has no value prior to day 2 and could be either A or B. This is derived from the Christian claim that Pete freely can choose either A or B and that up until the time he freely chooses either A or B, he could choose the other option.

3) X is always equal to Y and vice versa. This is derived from the Christian claim that whatever God knows Pete will choose is what Pete will choose and whatever Pete chooses is what God knew he would choose.

Since 1, 2 and 3 can't all be true, we can conclude - provided we're responding to the aforementioned claims - that the God described here can't have infallible knowledge of Pete's freely made choices.
 

section9+1

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I'm not going to address this because I don't drink as much as I'd need to. However, are you assuming that God is locked into the same flow of time like we are? We have a yesterday and tomorrow. What if God doesn't but all past and all future for him already is right now. Time is a function of the universe. If God experiences time like us then he is also a function of the universe and that seems unlikely.
 
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Basil the Great

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Kim7229 - I have read about this apparent contradiction numerous times through the years. You do make a good point and reportedly many Muslims believe in fatalism, that God ordains events. However, I believe that the situation you describe is not necessarily a contradiction. God exists outside time and space as we know it. Hence, I am sure that it is possible for God to know everything that will happen and yet allow freedom of choice.
 
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eleos1954

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Proof that it is logically impossible for anyone or anything to have infallible knowledge of yet to be made free choices.

Christians often make the claim that God knows everything. If asked for specifics, they’ll say this includes knowledge about the future (foreknowledge) and that such knowledge is infallible. Christians also often make the claim that man has free will. Upon being asked for specifics, they’ll agree that free will entails the ability to freely make a choice and that up until the time an option is chosen, a different option could have been chosen. At quick glance, these claims may not appear to be in conflict. However, if we dig a little deeper into each of these claims, we’ll see that they are.

Let’s say Pete is faced with a free choice of A or B. He is due to make this choice on Tuesday (day 2). We’ll call Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable Y - meaning if Pete chooses A, then variable Y gets a value of A and if Pete chooses B, then variable Y gets a value of B. This also means prior to day 2, variable Y has no value (or the choice lies in an unmade state), and on day 2, variable Y will acquire a value of either A or B – to be decided freely by Pete.

Given the Christian claim that God has infallible foreknowledge, this would mean God knows infallibly what A/B choice Pete will make when the choice still lies in an unmade state. To gain further clarity on this, it can be asked, “if it were asked on day 1 does God know infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, would the answer be YES?”. Christians would typically agree.

So we’ll call what is true on day 1 about God’s knowledge of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable X. In other words, if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose A, then variable X has a value of A - and if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose B, then variable X has a value of B. If on day 1 it is true that God knows infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, then it follows that X has a static or fixed value of either A or B as of day 1.

If asked for further specifics, such as what if Pete chooses something in conflict with what God knows he will choose, Christians will respond with the assertion that Pete will choose whatever God knows he will choose. This means that if variable X is equal to A, then variable Y must be equal to A; if variable Y is equal to B, then variable X must be equal to B, etc.

We now have three conditions:

1) X (or God's knowledge as of day 1 of Pete's day 2 A/B choice) has a value of either A or B on day 1 and this value is fixed and cannot change. If it is A, it will remain A. If it is B, it will remain B. This follows the assertion that God has infallible knowledge of future events.

2) Y (or Pete’s day 2 A/B choice) receives its value on day 2. Once Y receives its value, it becomes locked. Prior to receiving its value, it could potentially become A or B, as Pete freely chooses A or B. This follows the assertion that Pete has free will or can freely make choices.

3) X is equal to Y. This follows the assertion that whatever Pete chooses is precisely the same as what God knew he would choose.

Not all three of these conditions can be true.

If #1 & #2 are true, then #3 can’t be true, as X wouldn’t necessarily be equal to Y, nor would Y necessarily be equal to X. Not only would X receive a value at a different point in time than Y, but Y could be assigned a value in conflict with the static value of X.

If #1 & #3 are true, then #2 can’t be true. Pete wouldn’t be able to freely choose A or B, as variable Y would already be defined as being equal to variable X. Christians will often argue that God's knowledge of Pete’s future choice is a function of Pete’s day 2 choice. But this doesn’t hold true if the answer to the question “if asked on day 1, does God know what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be?” is YES.

If #2 & #3 are true, then #1 can’t be true. What this means is if variable Y gets its value on day 2, then variable X also gets its value on day 2 and gets the same value as variable Y. It then follows that God can’t have infallible knowledge on day 1 of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice.

Therefore, it is logically impossible for God (or anyone) to have infallible foreknowledge of a yet to be made free choice.

At a high level, what's going on is some people have made claims. These claims are equivalent to:

1) X has a value of A or B on day 1, meaning it must be equal to A or equal to B as of day 1. This is derived from the Christian claim that if asked on day 1, "does God know what Pete will choose tomorrow", they would say "yes".

2) Y gets a value of A or B on day 2, meaning Y has no value prior to day 2 and could be either A or B. This is derived from the Christian claim that Pete freely can choose either A or B and that up until the time he freely chooses either A or B, he could choose the other option.

3) X is always equal to Y and vice versa. This is derived from the Christian claim that whatever God knows Pete will choose is what Pete will choose and whatever Pete chooses is what God knew he would choose.

Since 1, 2 and 3 can't all be true, we can conclude - provided we're responding to the aforementioned claims - that the God described here can't have infallible knowledge of Pete's freely made choices.
Proof that it is logically impossible for anyone or anything to have infallible knowledge of yet to be made free choices.

Christians often make the claim that God knows everything. If asked for specifics, they’ll say this includes knowledge about the future (foreknowledge) and that such knowledge is infallible. Christians also often make the claim that man has free will. Upon being asked for specifics, they’ll agree that free will entails the ability to freely make a choice and that up until the time an option is chosen, a different option could have been chosen. At quick glance, these claims may not appear to be in conflict. However, if we dig a little deeper into each of these claims, we’ll see that they are.

Let’s say Pete is faced with a free choice of A or B. He is due to make this choice on Tuesday (day 2). We’ll call Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable Y - meaning if Pete chooses A, then variable Y gets a value of A and if Pete chooses B, then variable Y gets a value of B. This also means prior to day 2, variable Y has no value (or the choice lies in an unmade state), and on day 2, variable Y will acquire a value of either A or B – to be decided freely by Pete.

Given the Christian claim that God has infallible foreknowledge, this would mean God knows infallibly what A/B choice Pete will make when the choice still lies in an unmade state. To gain further clarity on this, it can be asked, “if it were asked on day 1 does God know infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, would the answer be YES?”. Christians would typically agree.

So we’ll call what is true on day 1 about God’s knowledge of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable X. In other words, if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose A, then variable X has a value of A - and if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose B, then variable X has a value of B. If on day 1 it is true that God knows infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, then it follows that X has a static or fixed value of either A or B as of day 1.

If asked for further specifics, such as what if Pete chooses something in conflict with what God knows he will choose, Christians will respond with the assertion that Pete will choose whatever God knows he will choose. This means that if variable X is equal to A, then variable Y must be equal to A; if variable Y is equal to B, then variable X must be equal to B, etc.

We now have three conditions:

1) X (or God's knowledge as of day 1 of Pete's day 2 A/B choice) has a value of either A or B on day 1 and this value is fixed and cannot change. If it is A, it will remain A. If it is B, it will remain B. This follows the assertion that God has infallible knowledge of future events.

2) Y (or Pete’s day 2 A/B choice) receives its value on day 2. Once Y receives its value, it becomes locked. Prior to receiving its value, it could potentially become A or B, as Pete freely chooses A or B. This follows the assertion that Pete has free will or can freely make choices.

3) X is equal to Y. This follows the assertion that whatever Pete chooses is precisely the same as what God knew he would choose.

Not all three of these conditions can be true.

If #1 & #2 are true, then #3 can’t be true, as X wouldn’t necessarily be equal to Y, nor would Y necessarily be equal to X. Not only would X receive a value at a different point in time than Y, but Y could be assigned a value in conflict with the static value of X.

If #1 & #3 are true, then #2 can’t be true. Pete wouldn’t be able to freely choose A or B, as variable Y would already be defined as being equal to variable X. Christians will often argue that God's knowledge of Pete’s future choice is a function of Pete’s day 2 choice. But this doesn’t hold true if the answer to the question “if asked on day 1, does God know what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be?” is YES.

If #2 & #3 are true, then #1 can’t be true. What this means is if variable Y gets its value on day 2, then variable X also gets its value on day 2 and gets the same value as variable Y. It then follows that God can’t have infallible knowledge on day 1 of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice.

Therefore, it is logically impossible for God (or anyone) to have infallible foreknowledge of a yet to be made free choice.

At a high level, what's going on is some people have made claims. These claims are equivalent to:

1) X has a value of A or B on day 1, meaning it must be equal to A or equal to B as of day 1. This is derived from the Christian claim that if asked on day 1, "does God know what Pete will choose tomorrow", they would say "yes".

2) Y gets a value of A or B on day 2, meaning Y has no value prior to day 2 and could be either A or B. This is derived from the Christian claim that Pete freely can choose either A or B and that up until the time he freely chooses either A or B, he could choose the other option.

3) X is always equal to Y and vice versa. This is derived from the Christian claim that whatever God knows Pete will choose is what Pete will choose and whatever Pete chooses is what God knew he would choose.

Since 1, 2 and 3 can't all be true, we can conclude - provided we're responding to the aforementioned claims - that the God described here can't have infallible knowledge of Pete's freely made choices.

You might try the Word of God ... it's less confusing and no chance for math errors.

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20

in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Psalm 139:1-4
Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.

Matthew 10:30

"But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Psalm 147:4

He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them.

Hebrews 4:13

And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

Psalm 139:1-3

O LORD, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar. You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.

Psalm 44:21

Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.

1 Chronicles 28:9

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Isaiah 40:28

Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired His understanding is inscrutable.

Isaiah 46:9-10

"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

1 Kings 8:39

then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,

Acts 1:24

And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
 
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Kim7229

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I'm not going to address this because I don't drink as much as I'd need to. However, are you assuming that God is locked into the same flow of time like we are? We have a yesterday and tomorrow. What if God doesn't but all past and all future for him already is right now. Time is a function of the universe. If God experiences time like us then he is also a function of the universe and that seems unlikely.
Would you say that as of day 1, X does or does not have a truth value?
 
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Kim7229

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Kim7229 - I have read about this apparent contradiction numerous times through the years. You do make a good point and reportedly many Muslims believe in fatalism, that God ordains events. However, I believe that the situation you describe is not necessarily a contradiction. God exists outside time and space as we know it. Hence, I am sure that it is possible for God to know everything that will happen and yet allow freedom of choice.
In the scenario I presented in the OP, would you say as of day 1 X does have a truth value?
 
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NBB

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I didn't read all the logic because is too much, but God has knowledge of the future and our choices, he is smart enough to know how the universe and our own souls work and maybe that is how he can predict based on how things work and our parameters the outcome, he know us very well to the very bottom (he created us after all), or maybe he knows in another way who knows but...
 
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Kim7229

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I didn't read all the logic because is too much, but God has knowledge of the future and our choices, he is smart enough to know how the universe and our own souls work and maybe that is how he can predict based on how things work and our parameters the outcome, he know us very well to the very bottom (he created us after all), or maybe he knows in another way who knows but...
To help you understand the logic, please answer this question: Let's say today it's true that God knows you'll choose A out of an A/B choice which you are due to make tomorrow. When tomorrow comes around, you choose B. What does that do to God's knowledge that you would choose A?
 
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NBB

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To help you understand the logic, please answer this question: Let's say today it's true that God knows you'll choose A out of an A/B choice which you are due to make tomorrow. When tomorrow comes around, you choose B. What does that do to God's knowledge that you would choose A?

God knows you will choose A and you will choose A... how you know God can know someon would choose a and the person choose b instead.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Proof that it is logically impossible for anyone or anything to have infallible knowledge of yet to be made free choices.

Christians often make the claim that God knows everything. If asked for specifics, they’ll say this includes knowledge about the future (foreknowledge) and that such knowledge is infallible. Christians also often make the claim that man has free will. Upon being asked for specifics, they’ll agree that free will entails the ability to freely make a choice and that up until the time an option is chosen, a different option could have been chosen. At quick glance, these claims may not appear to be in conflict. However, if we dig a little deeper into each of these claims, we’ll see that they are.

Let’s say Pete is faced with a free choice of A or B. He is due to make this choice on Tuesday (day 2). We’ll call Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable Y - meaning if Pete chooses A, then variable Y gets a value of A and if Pete chooses B, then variable Y gets a value of B. This also means prior to day 2, variable Y has no value (or the choice lies in an unmade state), and on day 2, variable Y will acquire a value of either A or B – to be decided freely by Pete.

Given the Christian claim that God has infallible foreknowledge, this would mean God knows infallibly what A/B choice Pete will make when the choice still lies in an unmade state. To gain further clarity on this, it can be asked, “if it were asked on day 1 does God know infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, would the answer be YES?”. Christians would typically agree.

So we’ll call what is true on day 1 about God’s knowledge of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice variable X. In other words, if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose A, then variable X has a value of A - and if as of day 1, God knows Pete will choose B, then variable X has a value of B. If on day 1 it is true that God knows infallibly what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be, then it follows that X has a static or fixed value of either A or B as of day 1.

If asked for further specifics, such as what if Pete chooses something in conflict with what God knows he will choose, Christians will respond with the assertion that Pete will choose whatever God knows he will choose. This means that if variable X is equal to A, then variable Y must be equal to A; if variable Y is equal to B, then variable X must be equal to B, etc.

We now have three conditions:

1) X (or God's knowledge as of day 1 of Pete's day 2 A/B choice) has a value of either A or B on day 1 and this value is fixed and cannot change. If it is A, it will remain A. If it is B, it will remain B. This follows the assertion that God has infallible knowledge of future events.

2) Y (or Pete’s day 2 A/B choice) receives its value on day 2. Once Y receives its value, it becomes locked. Prior to receiving its value, it could potentially become A or B, as Pete freely chooses A or B. This follows the assertion that Pete has free will or can freely make choices.

3) X is equal to Y. This follows the assertion that whatever Pete chooses is precisely the same as what God knew he would choose.

Not all three of these conditions can be true.

If #1 & #2 are true, then #3 can’t be true, as X wouldn’t necessarily be equal to Y, nor would Y necessarily be equal to X. Not only would X receive a value at a different point in time than Y, but Y could be assigned a value in conflict with the static value of X.

If #1 & #3 are true, then #2 can’t be true. Pete wouldn’t be able to freely choose A or B, as variable Y would already be defined as being equal to variable X. Christians will often argue that God's knowledge of Pete’s future choice is a function of Pete’s day 2 choice. But this doesn’t hold true if the answer to the question “if asked on day 1, does God know what Pete’s day 2 A/B choice will be?” is YES.

If #2 & #3 are true, then #1 can’t be true. What this means is if variable Y gets its value on day 2, then variable X also gets its value on day 2 and gets the same value as variable Y. It then follows that God can’t have infallible knowledge on day 1 of Pete’s day 2 A/B choice.

Therefore, it is logically impossible for God (or anyone) to have infallible foreknowledge of a yet to be made free choice.

At a high level, what's going on is some people have made claims. These claims are equivalent to:

1) X has a value of A or B on day 1, meaning it must be equal to A or equal to B as of day 1. This is derived from the Christian claim that if asked on day 1, "does God know what Pete will choose tomorrow", they would say "yes".

2) Y gets a value of A or B on day 2, meaning Y has no value prior to day 2 and could be either A or B. This is derived from the Christian claim that Pete freely can choose either A or B and that up until the time he freely chooses either A or B, he could choose the other option.

3) X is always equal to Y and vice versa. This is derived from the Christian claim that whatever God knows Pete will choose is what Pete will choose and whatever Pete chooses is what God knew he would choose.

Since 1, 2 and 3 can't all be true, we can conclude - provided we're responding to the aforementioned claims - that the God described here can't have infallible knowledge of Pete's freely made choices.

Kim, since you're basically making an assertion that is meant to challenge the Christian faith, then this post probably belongs in the Christian Apologetics section rather than here in the Exploring Christianity section. Remember to read the 'Statement of Purpose' for each section here at CF. That way, you won't find your well written post removed to another quadrant of the website, especially if you're kind of borrowing something from another place and time, such as from below:

The Modal Fallacy and the Problem of Free Will

;)
 
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Kim7229

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God knows you will choose A and you will choose A... how you know God can know someon would choose a and the person choose b instead.
Let's say if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose A, then X=A and if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose B, then X=B. Does X have a truth value right now? Just give me a yes or a no.
 
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Kim7229

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Kim, since you're basically making an assertion that is meant to challenge the Christian faith, then this post probably belongs in the Christian Apologetics section rather than here in the Exploring Christianity section. Remember to read the 'Statement of Purpose' for each section here at CF. That way, you won't find your well written post removed to another quadrant of the website, especially if you're kind of borrowing something from another place and time, such as from below:

The Modal Fallacy and the Problem of Free Will

;)
For some reason I can't post in the apologetics section. If I could, I would have put it there.
 
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NBB

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Let's say if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose A, then X=A and if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose B, then X=B. Does X have a truth value right now? Just give me a yes or a no.

Truth value? what do you mean? if you choose a for an x option today then God knew you would choose a, and the next day you choose b, then God knew you would choose b.
How is supposed to work is that God will never think that you will choose a and then you choose b.
 
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Kim7229

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Truth value? what do you mean? if you choose a for an x option today then God knew you would choose a, and the next day you choose b, then God knew you would choose b.
How is supposed to work is that God will never think that you will choose a and then you choose b.
I'll reword the question to explain what is meant by truth value.

Let's say if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose A, then X=A and if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose B, then X=B. As of one day prior to when you make your choice, does X already have a value of either A or B? (e.g. it's either A or B OR it has no value). Just give me a yes or a no.
 
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NBB

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I'll reword the question to explain what is meant by truth value.

Let's say if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose A, then X=A and if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose B, then X=B. As of one day prior to when you make your choice, does X already have a value of either A or B? (e.g. it's either A or B OR it has no value). Just give me a yes or a no.

Yes it has a value, but not because God predestined it that way, but because he knew it would happen that way, the way i think i see it is that, let say God wanted a world with certain neccesary 'parameters' then the world would play itself, some events with direct intervention of his, a lot maybe but not all, the world would work in some extent without his intervention.
 
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JohnClay

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Radagast

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Proof that it is logically impossible for anyone or anything to have infallible knowledge of yet to be made free choices.

Is this cut-and-paste job (which we've seen here on CF many times before) an actual question about Christianity? It looks like a rule breach to me.

Christians often make the claim that God knows everything. If asked for specifics, they’ll say this includes knowledge about the future (foreknowledge) and that such knowledge is infallible. Christians also often make the claim that man has free will.

Which Christians? Foreknowledge is perfectly compatible with compatibilist free will, if not libertarian free will.

Also, Christians view God as outside of time, so several of your straw-man statements are not what Christians would say.

Let's say if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose A, then X=A and if God knows that tomorrow you'll choose B, then X=B. Does X have a truth value right now? Just give me a yes or a no.

Yes, of course.

For some reason I can't post in the apologetics section. If I could, I would have put it there.

The reason, of course, is that you've failed to agree to the special conditions of the apologetics thread.
 
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Kim7229

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Yes it has a value, but not because God predestined it that way, but because he knew it would happen that way, the way i think i see it is that, let say God wanted a world with certain neccesary 'parameters' then the world would play itself, some events with direct intervention of his, a lot maybe but not all, the world would work in some extent without his intervention.
Let's say it's day 1 and God knows what your day 2 A/B choice will be. We'll say he knows it will be A (you did say it has a value as of day 1). On day 2, you freely choose B. What happens to God's knowledge that you would choose A?
 
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Kim7229

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Is this cut-and-paste job (which we've seen here on CF many times before) an actual question about Christianity? It looks like a rule breach to me.



Which Christians? Foreknowledge is perfectly compatible with compatibilist free will, if not libertarian free will.

Also, Christians view God as outside of time, so several of your straw-man statements are not what Christians would say.



Yes, of course.



The reason, of course, is that you've failed to agree to the special conditions of the apologetics thread.
Given the scenario presented in the OP, would you say that as of day 1, X has a truth value? (meaning it is equal to either A or B).
 
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