Dave Ellis
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- Dec 27, 2011
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One has the moral responsibility to fix themselves.
You can't fix others, even if you caused the damage.
How do we measure social justice?
You can't fix a murderer or the dead. You can only pray they fix themselves.
However, the forgiveness granted by the church is still totally irrelevant. You didn't really address my point.
western (European) 'morality' is primarily the product of Norse, Germanic, Roman, Brit, and Greek cultural influences.
the 'premise' is that ethics (or morality) are simple survival mechanisms, evolved and enculturated.
Agreed. Religious 'forgiveness' is simply a self-applied exemption from apparently unbearable guilt. We don't get that. We have to live with the complete guilt package - no relief, no halving of the burden.
As to your second sentence above ... que?
The first question, is everything perfect? No. If yo are currently walking and God is walking beside you, then yes. You are in His domain and you are in Heaven. Just as Adam was. This is not Heaven. God is not walking here.
This is the place we ended up when removed from the Garden and the gate was closed.
This place is more similar to Hell than Heaven.
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found.11 Since everything will be dissolved in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness…
This is God's plan that we see the evil here and ask God to take us back. But God is not in charge here because this is not Heaven.
So if obedience is required for suffering to be avoided, and if animals are naturally obedient, why have they not avoided suffering? You seem determined not to answer this question.
I can't do a better job of making fun of the "best of all possible worlds" idea than Voltaire, so I'll just point you to read Candide instead. But really? Everything is perfect?
I know It is hard to conceive, that even in this fallen state, the world obeys perfectly the will of God and everything that is happening is right on schedule. I did not get to this point in my Spirituality overnight. It took many years before I learned of this, then could accept this and progress to the knowledge stage that it is also true. Everything that happens is for our benefits and God uses all things to shape and polish us. The fallen world with its diseases, afflictions, wicked men, dangerous animals, insects provide God with nearly an infinite number of life experiences perfectly fitted for each one of us.
Dan
No doubt those are in the mix in different proportions in different places along with the influences of Christianity.
That would be your premise. I don't know what LM is proposing.
That would be your premise. .
The suffering for purification has a beginning, a middle and a ending. Suffering because of sins, take us to grave before the initial appointed time. As it is written, God shall shorten the days of the wicked.
dan
I speak mostly for the man kingdom...which the man is made in the image of God. For man suffering exist for two purposes to learn obedience and for purification. The suffering for purification has a beginning, a middle and a ending. Suffering because of sins, take us to grave before the initial appointed time. As it is written, God shall shorten the days of the wicked.
dan
Well, maybe best president emeritus anyway.Incidentally, I applaud you on the use of J Carter. A very fine human being, and the best President you guys ever had, or may ever have.
But not all do. And many do 'whatever they can' without first demanding abdication from guilt via supernatural pardon.
Incidentally, I applaud you on the use of J Carter. A very fine human being, and the best President you guys ever had, or may ever have.
Mother T though, you can keep.
You're missing my point.
My point is if those people realize they've done wrong and want to lead a better life, the only forgiveness that matters is what their victims would be willing to offer up.
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