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Oh, jolly good. So long as God isn't heartless when He sets fire to us, I suppose that's just great. Although it's a bit of a shame He didn't make His creation into what He desires it to be from the start. That way we could have avoided being consumed by fire.Yes, it's the kind of burning which refines something to perfection. Its not a pointless heartless kind of burning. God will make His creation into what He desires it to be and this involves burning away what's useless and keeping what's valuable.
This God of yours sounds very unpleasant. He'd probably not sound too good, even in lower case.Evil is man fault we keep saying Gods in control he wont let us do anything thats true and false. We have a will thats not free. WE WILL PAY the price for sin saved or lost. One man disobedience death entered the world and sin was passed upon all men. God doesnt create evil DIRECTLY he created evil indirectly he permitted lucifer to become satan and use him to PUNISH sin. God does believe in necsessary evil 70th of week of daniel is Gods wrath but its SATAN whose actually doing the evil. God is simply letting him because they want none of my reproof YOU DONT WANT MY CHRIST then ILL LET SATAN give you his!!
That'll be the God of Love we're always being told about?
No, I'm sure I'm not living in the USA.
It's always dangerous to think weather is climate, but yes I am told that there is evidence of the climate change that has been predicted. We could say that's just God being nasty, or we could try to deal with the output of greenhouse gases. I suggest the latter would be the more productive choice.
How does that part of the living world which is not homo sapiens learn obedience and therefore avoid suffering?Everything that exist, and happens is due to spiritual laws. The Spiritual laws bring both sufferings and blessings - depending whether we obey or not. Spiritual laws are designed to push each of us to greater Spiritual heights. Jesus said once..If obedience has been learned, what need therefore is suffering?
dan
Come, come. Let's keep this fun. I may be unable to explain myself well, but it will be fun to try as long as we all keep our head.
For my part, we only need consider one of the horns. There is no objective standard independent of God's will. There is nothing over which God's sovereignty does not extend. I don't know/recall your position regarding whether morality is objective or subjective, so it would help for you to state your position. But, again, as far as I'm concerned we need only discuss the other horn ...
The other horn being that supposedly a morality extending only from God's will is arbitrary. I don't think that's the case simply because God is also the creator. As such, he knows the purpose for which everything was created and knows what is best for everything that is created. I don't see how it is arbitrary for him to express a morality that fulfills those purposes and achieves what is best.
Loudmouth, Maybe you missed this question.
Come, come. Let's keep this fun. I may be unable to explain myself well, but it will be fun to try as long as we all keep our head.
For my part, we only need consider one of the horns. There is no objective standard independent of God's will.
The other horn being that supposedly a morality extending only from God's will is arbitrary.
I don't think that's the case simply because God is also the creator. As such, he knows the purpose for which everything was created and knows what is best for everything that is created. I don't see how it is arbitrary for him to express a morality that fulfills those purposes and achieves what is best.
Then how can you say that God is good? It would seem that God just does whatever God wants, and we have no ability to determine if it is good or bad.
You describe it as being arbitrary. You define what is good by what God does. That's as arbitrary as it gets.
My mother's cooking is the best in the world, and by definition, the best food in the world is whatever my mom cooks. See a problem with that?
You have arbitrarily labeled it as being good simply because God did it.
It seems to me the problem of evil is a real problem, and it is my main barrier to faith. I just have trouble believing in a benevolent creator that cares about people- I see no evidence for it in this world. There is gross unfairness and suffering in the world and I don't believe Christians can account for it.
I grant that I could be wrong, that somehow there is a God in charge of it all and its just like the Christian God and is beyond my understanding. But it would be pretty cruel for such a being to hold honest doubts against me, given the quality of evidence he's left.
And honestly, if it is the case that God exists and he has such a mysterious plan, what does that say about Christian epistemology? How could we take any religious authority seriously if God's will is so inscrutable? It seems to me much more skepticism of religious claims are warranted, regardless of whether or not the Christian God exists.
Since the Euthyphro Dilemma only deals with what a presupposed god decrees to be good, my position doesn't mean anything. I don't even know why you would bring it up.
You're just moving the goalposts. If a god determines what is good by what fulfills arbitrary plans, based on arbitrary determinations of "what's best", then any action deemed good is therefore arbitrary as well.
I don't know if there is an objective morality or not. What I do know is that you don't establish an objective morality simply by claiming a book written by humans is infallible.
It's not moving the goalposts or arbitrary to pursue root cause. Suppose someone designs a machine they know will be damaged if it falls off a cliff. If they warn users of that machine not to throw it off a cliff, their instructions are not arbitrary, but based on their knowledge of the machine. They have a reason for their instructions. What would be arbitrary is for the designer to flip a coin as to whether to instruct users to throw the machine off a cliff when the consequences are known.
If morality was driven by purely objective means, wouldnt that mean what is considered moral or not would never change?
You keep ignoring the possibility that a deity is immoral.
I'm not ignoring it. You haven't yet answered post #254 to tell me by what standard you expect gods to be judged.
The same standards that we judge our fellow humans by.
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