• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The pre-tribulation lie!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Imagsusman

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2005
735
12
64
Michigan
✟939.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
L0U said:
I was just reading about those two guy's who you and Murjahel were having trouble with a few weeks ago.

[/i]
[/b]

Wow, sounds like Islamic Jihad to me.
Were you at their website, that link to it no longer works.

Well both those guys were here posting quite abit...Kinda discerned something funny about them...So really started reading closely their posts, and especially firststrikeforce seemed rather odd...So I went to his friend Zionenvoy's site and there were the things I quoted from thier site(Zion Knights I think it was)...When rebuked FSF decided it was time to prophesy against us...lol..So when I posted links to their "secret" order of knights they shut it down...lol..Guess if it was posed to be so secret I wouldnt have found it...lolrtfl
 
Upvote 0

Imagsusman

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2005
735
12
64
Michigan
✟939.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
ginzell said:
Well, I know not to come here for any prophecy!

You guys are something else

Well no offence intended ginzell, but if you came here for prohecy why would you look at a post with a heading such as this one?..Just because the true prophets are standing up to false ones ON YOUR BEHALF dont stone them sister..
 
Upvote 0

ginzell

Active Member
Sep 15, 2005
65
2
57
✟15,195.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Oh wow, you're totally missing the point.
It was no big deal, you're taking it way outta where it was intended.

When I started to read this post, I thought, um, ok where is the prophecy - this is debate.

Sorry to have stepped on your toes, I guess I was too bold maybe?

OR maybe I am misunderstanding what prophetic ministry is?

At any rate, go head on and debate if there will be a rapture or not, you're the prophets and know where you're going with it.

My bad! As my son would say! :pray:
 
Upvote 0

murjahel

Senior Veteran
Oct 31, 2005
8,768
1,067
✟36,887.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The original post was meant to try to infer that some were 'false prophets'...
because they believe in pre-trib....

The debate is not really for this forum... and belongs on the eschatological board... but it needed addressed..... and so I showed Scriptures to show that the pre trib belief may be debated but to class it as a belief that would send someone to hell is absurd....

Prophets are not here to pronounce blessings to come on everyone... Prophets are here to speak God's messages... Sometimes that may be a blessing, but more often God is upset at sin that separates people from God...

Those messages make a prophet very unpopular, with so called saints, and even more unpopular with the devils...

So... often here, we find many instigated to attack the true message...

False prophets oft come to act like psychics, seeking acclaim and fortune for being a glorified crystal ball reader...

So... a board like this can be 'eventful'... and oft can get heated, as true prophets of God confront the anger of demons projected at them through ones who are cohorts of the demons...

The reason I asked you what you expected... is that the 'prophetic' ministry oft projected and expected... is far from what it truly is...

Jeremiah was called the weeping prophet.... Most prophets were slain for their messages... Only false prophets speak the words wanted by most...

In the last week, I have been cursed, had plagues sent toward me, and told I would be eaten by worms... all because I believe in a pre trib rapture... and the one wanting to promote a non pre trib rapture would not have the fun of killing people if the rapture happened before the trib... Not to mention that his sales of ammo and guns would go down if he did not have people thinking they had to arm themselves for the trib fight...

Not all 'non pre trib believers are militant or full of hate for pre tribbers... but some that the demons have inspired here are militant and anxious to not only do away with antichrist forces, but also want to dispose of all pre trib believers...

So... the debate of that topic did have 'prophetic' significance...
 
Upvote 0

Harlan Norris

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2005
1,959
136
73
Aurora Co
✟17,955.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Well I've been over it an over it.I simply can't find any concrete scripture that says there will be a pre-trib rapture.The danger as I see it is the mark.The mark of the beast.People that say they will not see the mark because it comes after the rapture are in danger of taking it.Micro chip implants are here now.Some already have them.The rapture better come soon.I'm pretty shure that these will soon be offered as a good way to avoid identity theft.Not long after that they will become mandatory.Take the chip and keep you bank account home ect. life goes on as before.Refuse them and lose all.Keep your eye on these.If you want a look at one Google,microchip implant.I hope that whatever you trib views are that you will refuse this chip.In my heart I know it's the mark.
 
Upvote 0

GraceInHim

† Need a lifeguard? Mine walks on water †
Oct 25, 2005
18,636
924
MA
✟24,206.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Imagsusman said:
The two witnesses are here during Daniels 70th week,(the great tribulation) which is Gods last dealings with the Jews...Many will be converted to Jesus during this time..They were already "raptured", but their ministrys are not yet complete...

:thumbsup: yes and the fullness of the Gentiles - preach the gospel to all nations - a day is like a 1000 - there are so many prophecies which have not happened yet - and many think God is finished with Israel - I say to those - what other people after over1900 yrs of dispersement born literally in a day 1948 - then a 6 day war to gain Jerusalem - which thier army was tiny compared to others - that is like Britian taking back America - and this was a prophecy in many in the Torah/OT
 
Upvote 0

Prophetic

Active Member
Apr 16, 2005
45
5
58
Sydney
✟22,686.00
Faith
Christian
Hi everyone

I am sorry I left in a huff!!

I have learned something though, it seems there are at least three different views on everything, and I am glad I have one of them.

I am not sure I will be posting much and I am not sure if I want to bring up anyhting contreversial again, but I have to say that over four hundred views seems like I started something that has been well read.

And for that sort of record, I have to smile!!

God bless you all!

One thing I do know. We can't all be right!!

I might think about something else I can post!!
 
Upvote 0

Imagsusman

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2005
735
12
64
Michigan
✟939.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Prophetic said:
Hi everyone

I am sorry I left in a huff!!

I have learned something though, it seems there are at least three different views on everything, and I am glad I have one of them.

I am not sure I will be posting much and I am not sure if I want to bring up anyhting contreversial again, but I have to say that over four hundred views seems like I started something that has been well read.

And for that sort of record, I have to smile!!

God bless you all!

One thing I do know. We can't all be right!!

I might think about something else I can post!!

400 views doesnt mean alot...lets see, about 40-50 were mine...and others who were answering posts probably could have half that many just checking back to see what was said to thier rebuittle...The sad thing is that is was brought up here to begin with...Then of coarse there are those who like to see dissention more than unity and thrive on such posts..and I am not pointing at YOU...
 
Upvote 0

Followers4christ

Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!
Jun 17, 2005
5,103
805
Caldwell, Idaho
Visit site
✟30,651.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Matthew 24:40-41"Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.



1 Thessalonians 4:16-17"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.



Revelation 7:14"I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 19::14"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Jude 14-16"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

Who are these holy ones and armies that are with the Lord cominng down to earth? Us

I believe that after the rapture (caught up)Then the anti christ will step into power...God Bless :)



Daniel 7:21" As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them,



2 Thessalonians"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

Matthew 24:24"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.


Revelation 13:16-18"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.


Revelation 14:9-11"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."


Revelation 13:7"He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
 
Upvote 0

Kerolf

Junior Member
Nov 19, 2005
26
0
72
Ohio
✟136.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This dangerous teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture, leads the unlearned or undiscerning Christian into a deceptive belief that they will be spared from God’s trying period upon the world.

No, a dangerous teaching IS that all roads lead to heaven and God. That a person doesn't have to confess the Lord Jesus and believe God raised Him from the dead. Now that's a dangerous teaching.

 
Upvote 0

KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
14,754
893
48
Dagenham
Visit site
✟19,483.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Conservative
I am going before the tribulation. How is the antichrist REALLY going to rise to power with so many faith-filled Christians on the earth being salt and light?

No, we have to leave planet earth. We are ambassadors of Christ, and the Father will remove His ambassadors before He declares war on the nations.

Cheers,
Z
 
Upvote 0

Goltzy

Active Member
Dec 26, 2005
260
18
Canada
✟494.00
Faith
Christian
Politics
CA-Others
Hello,

I've studied this issue for some time now. I began as a pretribber, reading my LeftBehind books and following the outline of Lindsay and crew. I would scoff at any other view, often getting into heated debates with fellow christians that didnt agree with me. However, after much prayer and asking God for guidance (which I really had not been doing), He lead me to the understanding that we would not be raptured away from earth before the wrath of the AC came upon us. I dont feel the need to get into quoting the bible now, but there are plenty of bible verses that support the post tribulation rapture. I know that pretribber have equally as many verses to support thier view, and I've been on the other side of the coin to know what they ALL are. So I will not use the bible verses as any kind of argument here.
I believe we must look at God's nature when looking at this issue. To get a good understanding of His nature, it is good to have a good understanding of the Old Testament, as many here, I imagine, do.
I feel that the rapture idea goes against how God deals with His children. Throughout early Jewish history, God never just took His people out of harms way, but made them pass through the fires of tribulation (sometimes literally). When captive in Egypt, God kept His people from the plagues and judgement on the nation and people. Noah and his family, who were the only people alive who were found to be true in their faith, were not wisked away. They were told to prepare for much hardship and do God's will by building an ark. As good and noble as they were, God did not spare them from this time of hardship, but guided them through it.
David, when being thrown to the lions in the den, was protected by God. God kept the lion's mouths shut, so they couldnt harm him. Instead of wisking David away, as God favored him, God made him pass through this tribulation while protecting him in its midst.
Joseph had to suffer greatly for God, but the Lord always brought Him through. Being sold into slavery then put into the dungeon in Egypt, God kept Joseph through his tribulations so that, when the time came, Joseph could help his people. This will be us in the end times. We will be as Joseph was. Persecuted and hated for His sake. But, if we have faith in our Lord, He will deliver us.
There are other examples to show God's nature in how He deals with us, but I find this sufficient for now. God, like the loving Father He is, wants us to learn from our mistakes and be refined from the tribulations, not escape them. What are we to learn if we are just wisked away? What would the apostles have taught the people if they, at the first signs of persecution, had been wisked away to heaven? If the apostles had to die for their faith, and they were the great men Jesus chose to spread His word, then I dont feel that I will be granted the right to fly up to heaven unscathed and unlearned. If they had to pass through great tribulation, so will I.
If I know anything, I know I'll be here when this world turns ugly and violent, and the devil is let loose to do his evil upon the earth and its inhabitants. I trust that God, as He did in the past, will protect me from danger and evil. If He wills that I should die for Him, I know I will die for my Lord as a martyr. This is something that I know I should prepare for. It is not something we should be unprepared for, as I dont think we can afford the cost of denying our Lord.

To wrap this up, while I was a pretribber, still growing in knowledge about God and Jesus and the bible, I was always taken back by the fact that God would take me away from this earth during the time I could be used the most. What I found in posttrib, I found that He wouldnt do such a thing. I would be here doing exactly what He wants me to do: saving those that dont know Him, and helping protect them. I'm no Moses, and no Joseph, but I'd gladly follow in their footsteps and lead my brothers and sisters through the fires and into the arms of our Lord, Jesus Christ. God willing...

God bless.

L.
 
Upvote 0

Kerolf

Junior Member
Nov 19, 2005
26
0
72
Ohio
✟136.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I feel that the rapture idea goes against how God deals with His children. Throughout early Jewish history, God never just took His people out of harms way, but made them pass through the fires of tribulation (sometimes literally).



Feelings come and go and should never be used to understand truth. The spiritual can only be ascertained and not annualized. The Body of Christ is not the same as the Chosen People, so therefore it cannot be understood in the same light.

The Word clearly states were are delivered from the wrath to come. As for the believer in this day and time, we are compassed about with much tribulation. But there will come a time..............................................
 
Upvote 0

Goltzy

Active Member
Dec 26, 2005
260
18
Canada
✟494.00
Faith
Christian
Politics
CA-Others
Kerolf said:
Feelings come and go and should never be used to understand truth.

Then I used the wrong wording. 'I believe'.

T
Kerolf said:
he Body of Christ is not the same as the Chosen People, so therefore it cannot be understood in the same light.
God's nature is God's nature. He doesnt change. The one's He loves, He deals with accordingly, and in line with how His nature is. This is apparent throughout the bible. if you can show me differently, do so and I'll look at it your way. The body of Christ and God's Chosen People may not be the same group of people, but they are all God's children, and He deals with them as equals.
I dont understand how you can describe God's nature as anything other than what's presented in the bible.:confused:


Kerolf said:
The Word clearly states were are delivered from the wrath to come.
And I dont see how this necessarily points to a pretrib rapture. God can keep us here on earth while there is wrath being poured on on unbelievers. If you need an example of this, look back in the OT when He did this in Egypt.
Kerolf said:
As for the believer in this day and time, we are compassed about with much tribulation. But there will come a time....

That really depends on where you live. If you live in Western society, what kind of tribulations are you facing? However, if you live in Africa or the Middle East, even China, christians there are living in real thru real tribulations.
There will come a time when all us christians will suffer at the hands of the antichrist. We will not be wisked away to heaven.
 
Upvote 0

Highland Watchman

Keeping watch from my ebony tower
Sep 24, 2004
1,395
91
44
Canada
Visit site
✟17,012.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Engaged
Zzub said:
I am going before the tribulation. How is the antichrist REALLY going to rise to power with so many faith-filled Christians on the earth being salt and light?

No, we have to leave planet earth. We are ambassadors of Christ, and the Father will remove His ambassadors before He declares war on the nations.

Cheers,
Z

Okay, I'll take the bait.

How many Christians on the earth right now are truly faith-filled and truly being salt and light, especially in the West, where the prophets are cast out and false prophecy runs rampant? (I'm not going to attack the pre-tribbers on this one, even though I do not share their view...) The antichrist can rise to power, with or without the Christians, especially the multitudes of nominal ones who do not truly follow Christ. Think of various figures in the past... Adolf Hitler, for example. There were Christians throughout Germany, as were there Jews. Yet, God did not remove them from the picture so Hitler can rise to power. The Early church, under Roman rule, as another example. God did not remove the Christians from the empire so they would not have to suffer any tribulation or persecution. And the Roman Emperors were anything but Christ-like. When Mau Tse Tung rose in China, God did not remove the Christians from there. Yet, he was a figure that wery much was anti-Christ. That's not to say that any of these men were THE antichrist, but they definitely were anti-Christ figures, and they definitely serve to remind us of the danger that the final Antichrist will pose, especially those who have been marked by the angels as children of the Living God. (because realize, there are two marks: the marks of the servants of God, and the mark of the beast).

Regarding your other remark, who is to say that there is not already a spiritual war between God and the forces of darkness? If the faithful ambassadors must be removed before war is declared, then either war has not yet been declared and there is peace, prosperity and rejoicing, and will only continue to be this way until the coming of Christ (which is unlikely. Remember, it was the false prophets who were declaring "peace, peace", when really, there was no peace), or the faithful have already been removed, from the very beginning... or at least from before the critical blow was hit at the Cross and Resurrection. But then, in a way many nations have been judged and destroyed by God before the cross, so the struggle has actually existed since before then, I would wager even as far back as the Fall. But that possibility leaves us with no hope, and if I know God, hope is one of the main things about the prophetic message of Scripture.

So please excuse me that I happen to disagree. :cool:
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.