The Prayers of the Royal Priesthood

[Arsenios]

1Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood,
an holy nation,
a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness
into his marvellous light:

A Priest is one who intercedes for others before God...
The prayers to God for others is the hallmark of a Royal Priesthood...

What prayers are we, as a Royal Priesthood, to pray, and for whom?

And when and how often?

Are these prayers for some and not others?

Are they the prayers we pray for ourselves and our own families?

And while we are at it, how peculiar are we, actually?

And in what ways do our lives differ from those of non-Christians?

Arsenios

 

[Anguspure]

1Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood,
an holy nation,
a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness
into his marvellous light:

A Priest is one who intercedes for others before God...
The prayers to God for others is the hallmark of a Royal Priesthood...

What prayers are we, as a Royal Priesthood, to pray, and for whom?

And when and how often?

Are these prayers for some and not others?

Are they the prayers we pray for ourselves and our own families?

And while we are at it, how peculiar are we, actually?

And in what ways do our lives differ from those of non-Christians?

Arsenios

One intercesion that I find a curiosity about is the intercesion for forgivness.

When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” (John 20:23)

 

[~Anastasia~]

One intercesion that I find a curiosity about is the intercesion for forgivness.

When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” (John 20:23)

I was somehow surprised too when I read some writings about interceding for forgiveness for others. But I found other Scriptures where we are directly told to do so. Funny how some things don't sink in based on your viewpoint sometimes.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. (1 John 15:16)

James 5:15 also alludes to this.
And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.


And it was established in the OT as a priestly role.
1 Sam 12:19
Then all the people said to Samuel, "Pray for your servants to the LORD your God, so that we may not die, for we have added to all our sins this evil by asking for ourselves a king."


There are more. But it had escaped me before and came as a surprise that we might pray for the sins of others.


(I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but I would have trouble relying only on the charism given to the Apostles, as I tend to believe that was given to them and passed down by laying on of hands - but it is indeed a similar role.)

 

[~Anastasia~]

1Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood,
an holy nation,
a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness
into his marvellous light:

A Priest is one who intercedes for others before God...
The prayers to God for others is the hallmark of a Royal Priesthood...

What prayers are we, as a Royal Priesthood, to pray, and for whom?

And when and how often?

Are these prayers for some and not others?

Are they the prayers we pray for ourselves and our own families?

And while we are at it, how peculiar are we, actually?

And in what ways do our lives differ from those of non-Christians?

Arsenios

I won't try to answer all of them just now, but I think it is our duty to pray for others. In my opinion, every time we pray. And prayer for others should come before praying for self. It is good if it flows from love for the brethren, especially. But I think we can pray for anyone. And I think anyone can pray to God, including non-Christians. How God receives any of our prayers and what He does in response in strictly up to His wisdom of course. But we cannot forget ... the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

 

[Arsenios]

One intercesion that I find a curiosity about is the intercesion for forgivness.

When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” (John 20:23)

Indeed, Christ Himself prayed for the forgiveness of those who were killing Him AS they were crucifying Him... And this He discipled to the proto-apostles, and is enshrined in the Lord's Prayer, the "Our father..."
Because in this prayer, we ask God for forgiveness of our own sins, even as we ARE FORGIVING those who are sinning (or who have sinned) against us... The teaching is clear: IF we are not forgiving those who sin against us, God will NOT forgive us OUR sins...

So back to the OP: IF we pray for the forgiveness of those who have sinned against us, IS that prayer a priestly prayer? Or is it a personal prayer?

The Lord's Prayer would seem to be the defining prayer that is quintessentially priestly. The one praying this prayer addresses God as OUR Father, and asks of God, in the second three petitions:

"And upon the earth:
Give to US this day OUR super-essential Bread
And
Forgive US OUR trespasses, as WE are forgiving THOSE who are trespassing against US...
And
Lead US not into perditious trial, but deliver US from the evil one."

This prayer is BY the Faithful and is FOR the Faithful that they should receive and retain the Grace needed to intercede for those who are not a part of this community, as well as those within it... Because the whole of the Christian Community is a Royal Priesthood, and this is the quintessential Priestly Prayer for this Priesthood of the Faithful that they be equipped to function effectively in their priestly ministry in the world in which they walk but of which they no longer take their existence... For they are now citizens of heaven, and strangers upon the earth...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I won't try to answer all of them just now, but I think it is our duty to pray for others. In my opinion, every time we pray. And prayer for others should come before praying for self. It is good if it flows from love for the brethren, especially. But I think we can pray for anyone. And I think anyone can pray to God, including non-Christians. How God receives any of our prayers and what He does in response in strictly up to His wisdom of course. But we cannot forget ... the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

I keep finding that when I pray for others, many blessings flow...
And when I pray for myself, then not so much...

So IF a non-believer wants to discover the power of prayer, he should pray for others, whereas if he but prays for himself, he will be easily persuaded that prayer is a waste of time...

Arsenios

 

[~Anastasia~]

I keep finding that when I pray for others, many blessings flow...
And when I pray for myself, then not so much...

So IF a non-believer wants to discover the power of prayer, he should pray for others, whereas if he but prays for himself, he will be easily persuaded that

Arsenios

Hmmmm. Never thought of that but what an excellent point.

The truth is that these days most often I pray for others. In fact prayers for those closer to me IS my prayer for myself. I seldom seem to have to ask for anything from the Lord for myself except correction. I am blessed in so many things, to ask just seems selfish. I'm not saying we shouldn't pray for ourselves as if it were wrong to do. But agreeing that I am already deeply blessed, in part by praying for others.

Maybe it is for the reason you said.

My SF instructed me years ago to pray for others, and only after that to pray for myself. But what has happened is that I pray more often and easily for them, and there just isn't left much for me to ask for myself. Glory to God.

 

[Anguspure]

Indeed, Christ Himself prayed for the forgiveness of those who were killing Him AS they were crucifying Him... And this He discipled to the proto-apostles, and is enshrined in the Lord's Prayer, the "Our father..."
Because in this prayer, we ask God for forgiveness of our own sins, even as we ARE FORGIVING those who are sinning (or who have sinned) against us... The teaching is clear: IF we are not forgiving those who sin against us, God will NOT forgive us OUR sins...

So back to the OP: IF we pray for the forgiveness of those who have sinned against us, IS that prayer a priestly prayer? Or is it a personal prayer?

The Lord's Prayer would seem to be the defining prayer that is quintessentially priestly. The one praying this prayer addresses God as OUR Father, and asks of God, in the second three petitions:

"And upon the earth:
Give to US this day OUR super-essential Bread
And
Forgive US OUR trespasses, as WE are forgiving THOSE who are trespassing against US...
And
Lead US not into perditious trial, but deliver US from the evil one."

This prayer is BY the Faithful and is FOR the Faithful that they should receive and retain the Grace needed to intercede for those who are not a part of this community, as well as those within it... Because the whole of the Christian Community is a Royal Priesthood, and this is the quintessential Priestly Prayer for this Priesthood of the Faithful that they be equipped to function effectively in their priestly ministry in the world in which they walk but of which they no longer take their existence... For they are now citizens of heaven, and strangers upon the earth...

Arsenios

Absolutely! But also what I am curious about is the idea that when we forgive the sins of others (against us) that they are also forgiven by our Father in heaven because of Christ in us.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Absolutely! But also what I am curious about is the idea that when we forgive the sins of others (against us) that they are also forgiven by our Father in heaven because of Christ in us.

Curious ... I'm not sure this is actually true, if we merely forgive on our own behalf and don't pray for God to forgive them.

 

[Arsenios]

Absolutely! But also what I am curious about is the idea that when we forgive the sins of others (against us) that they are also forgiven by our Father in heaven because of Christ in us.

Of course they are! IF the sin committed is toward YOU, and IF it is YOU who forgive that very sin, then that particular sin is forgiven to the one who committed it against you...

Of course there is one small matter that remains, which is the infirmity of soul of the person who committed it, because without great repentance, he or she is going to commit it AGAIN (and again and again...) so as to remain condemned...

And forgiveness in words is not enough, nor even in thoughts, but only forgiveness from the heart will do... You have to be able to, and to actually do, the forgiveness that comes with utterly loving the person sinning against you, and doing all you can to help that person, including the alms of not only material goods but also the alms of prayers for their souls, with tears, for our salvation will not come to pass without this... And that even includes the prayers of the faithful for the atheist murderer of the 26 and wounder of 20 in that Church in Texas AS he is murdering them.

Mere Christianity indeed! And yes, I hope the kid prayed for that man when he returned fire and wounded and chased him...

The Orthodox prayers for their own deceased faithful, which are a part of the Prayers of the Church for her own, follow under the instructive of Christ: "Whatsoever sins ye forgive men on earth are forgiven in heaven...(and vice versa)"...

Prayers for sinners are always a good idea...

Heartfelt prayers for them are pure gold...

Arsenios

 

[~Anastasia~]

Of course they are! IF the sin committed is toward YOU, and IF it is YOU who forgive that very sin, then that particular sin is forgiven to the one who committed it against you...

Of course there is one small matter that remains, which is the infirmity of soul of the person who committed it, because without great repentance, he or she is going to commit it AGAIN (and again and again...) so as to remain condemned...

And forgiveness in words is not enough, nor even in thoughts, but only forgiveness from the heart will do... You have to be able to, and to actually do, the forgiveness that comes with utterly loving the person sinning against you, and doing all you can to help that person, including the alms of not only material goods but also the alms of prayers for their souls, with tears, for our salvation will not come to pass without this... And that even includes the prayers of the faithful for the atheist murderer of the 26 and wounder of 20 in that Church in Texas AS he is murdering them.

Mere Christianity indeed! And yes, I hope the kid prayed for that man when he returned fire and wounded and chased him...

The Orthodox prayers for their own deceased faithful, which are a part of the Prayers of the Church for her own, follow under the instructive of Christ: "Whatsoever sins ye forgive men on earth are forgiven in heaven...(and vice versa)"...

Prayers for sinners are always a good idea...

Heartfelt prayers for them are pure gold...

Arsenios

That fills in the blanks and answers several questions related to that issue. Thank you.

 

[Arsenios]

So when the Church, the gathering of the Ekklesia of God, the Body of Christ, in the Orthodox Faith of Christ, prays, the following is called The Great Litany:

The Great Litany



Deacon:
In peace let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For the peace of God and the salvation of our souls, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For peace of the whole world, for the stability of the holy churches of God, and for the unity of all, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For this holy house and for those who enter it with faith, reverence, and the fear of God, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For our Archbishop (Name), our Bishop (Name), the honorable presbyters, the deacons in the service of Christ, and all the clergy and laity, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For our country, the president, and all those in public service, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For this parish and city, for every city and country, and for the faithful who live in them, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For favorable weather, an abundance of the fruits of the earth, and temperate seasons, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For travelers by land, sea, and air, for the sick, the suffering, the captives, and for their salvation, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
For our deliverance from all affliction, wrath, danger, and distress, let us pray to the Lord.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Priest:
Help us, save us, have mercy upon us, and protect us, O God, by Your grace.


People:
Lord, have mercy.


Deacon:
Remembering our most holy, pure, blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us commit ourselves and one another and our whole life to Christ our God.


People:
To You, O Lord.


Priest (in a low voice):
O Lord, our God, whose power is beyond compare, and glory is beyond understanding; whose mercy is boundless, and love for us is ineffable; look upon us and upon this holy house in Your compassion. Grant to us and to those who pray with us Your abundant mercy.


Priest:
For to You belong all glory, honor, and worship to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.


People:
Amen.
________________________________________________________
These prayers, and many many others, are prayed each day by the Church for ourselves and for the world, and in this, the Church as a Body prays the prayers of intercession of themselves and of the whole world...

The Priest or Deacon calls out the prayers, and the congregation responds antiphonally, "AMEN"...


Arsenios

 

[~Anastasia~]

I had a very long commute today, but it was more than enough time to listen to all ten of the podcasts in this Intercessory Prayer series - https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/series/intercessory_prayer_the_last_hope_for_the_world

It was exactly on these prayers in the Great Litany. Some insights I had never appreciated before.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Indeed, Christ Himself prayed for the forgiveness of those who were killing Him AS they were crucifying Him... And this He discipled to the proto-apostles, and is enshrined in the Lord's Prayer, the "Our father..."
Because in this prayer, we ask God for forgiveness of our own sins, even as we ARE FORGIVING those who are sinning (or who have sinned) against us... The teaching is clear: IF we are not forgiving those who sin against us, God will NOT forgive us OUR sins...

So back to the OP: IF we pray for the forgiveness of those who have sinned against us, IS that prayer a priestly prayer? Or is it a personal prayer?

The Lord's Prayer would seem to be the defining prayer that is quintessentially priestly. The one praying this prayer addresses God as OUR Father, and asks of God, in the second three petitions:

"And upon the earth:
Give to US this day OUR super-essential Bread
And
Forgive US OUR trespasses, as WE are forgiving THOSE who are trespassing against US...
And
Lead US not into perditious trial, but deliver US from the evil one."

This prayer is BY the Faithful and is FOR the Faithful that they should receive and retain the Grace needed to intercede for those who are not a part of this community, as well as those within it... Because the whole of the Christian Community is a Royal Priesthood, and this is the quintessential Priestly Prayer for this Priesthood of the Faithful that they be equipped to function effectively in their priestly ministry in the world in which they walk but of which they no longer take their existence... For they are now citizens of heaven, and strangers upon the earth...

Arsenios

I think it's a personal prayer...
You have said that the "our Father" prayer, because of intercession, is a priestly prayer of the NT kingdom priesthood, which all believers are a part of. I agree that forgiveness can't be received unless we in turn forgive those who trespass against us. Therein is the responsibility that leads to learning love as He loves. That which makes Christians a peculiar people. It's very hard to convince anyone of Christian status while being contemptious of others in the sight of mankind, never mind in the eyes of God. For that reason I think of the "Our Father" prayer as being a teaching tool for daily living that every believer must partake of daily, like a picking up the cross of forgiveness and leading forward.

The "high priestly prayer" of John 17 I believe to be the greater prayer for the new royal priesthood because within is the prayer for Father and Son to be glorified.

That is our mission is it not? Shouldn't we be praying to reflect glory in our lives to Him who is effecting the change?

 

[Arsenios]

The "high priestly prayer" of John 17 I believe to be the greater prayer for the new royal priesthood because within is the prayer for Father and Son to be glorified.

I have understood that prayer as the High Priest's prayer of intercession to the Father for the sake of His disciples - Hence it is Christ's prayer for those who follow Him for all time... And those who follow Him ARE a Royal Priesthood, yes? And Christ is their High Priest... And the Ekklesia IS the Body OF Christ Who is HER Head, yes? So that for us, who are members of that Body, OUR job AS a Royal Priesthood IS to pray for those we are bringing along in the discipleship of the Faith of Christ IN which He commissioned His Apostles to DISCIPLE the nations...

That is our mission is it not?
Shouldn't we be praying to reflect glory in our lives
to Him who is effecting the change?

IF that were true, then we would be praying FOR the sake of Christ-God...

We pray for God's Mercy on those who love God, then those who love us, then those who know us and do not know us, and for those who hate us... And yes, even for the forgiveness of those who persecute us...

We as a Priesthood, you see, have access to God's Grace which we can intercede for any and all of mankind that God grant Mercy to those in need... Most are in great need... Profound need...

There is an ancient Christian understanding, that in the last days, when the last believer is killed by the haters of God, the world will cease to exist... That the very existence of the world rests upon the Faith and their prayers for the world of the faithful, and that without these prayers, the world will not exist... Indeed Hebrews records: Faith is the HYPOSTASIS of things hoped for/anticipated... It is the evidence of the unseen world, and its very BASIS [sub-standing]...

So that instead of reflecting God's Glory back to God, as a Royal Priesthood, should we not be intermediating that Glory to the fallen world and fallen man upon it, bringing to them and it the Mercy of God? For freely have ye received... Therefore freely be ye giving... And the more mature one becomes in the Faith of Christ, the greater can one give of Christ... And we give by interceding to God in behalf of those in need, and we rise by the prayers of those more mature than ourselves... Interecessory prayer is the essence of priestly prayer...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I have understood that prayer as the High Priest's prayer of intercession to the Father for the sake of His disciples - Hence it is Christ's prayer for those who follow Him for all time... And those who follow Him ARE a Royal Priesthood, yes? And Christ is their High Priest... And the Ekklesia IS the Body OF Christ Who is HER Head, yes? So that for us, who are members of that Body, OUR job AS a Royal Priesthood IS to pray for those we are bringing along in the discipleship of the Faith of Christ IN which He commissioned His Apostles to DISCIPLE the nations...

I've noticed that the Mt Sinai covenant was to the nation as a whole and was meant to be a nation of priests, but the promise of the NC is to a nation of kings and priests. Seemingly therefore not all the Ekklesia are of a priesthood but some are destined as kings, which the nation of Israel was never given. As King of Kings Christ is the Head of all Ekklesia, but how do orthodox account for the nation of priest's expansion to include kings in the larger scope of the bible?

IF that were true, then we would be praying FOR the sake of Christ-God.
We pray for God's Mercy on those who love God, then those who love us, then those who know us and do not know us, and for those who hate us... And yes, even for the forgiveness of those who persecute us.....

That's a nice expanded formula for prayer. The prayers of the saints are mentioned most in scripture and they seemed to have received mercy and were awaiting justice also within their prayers.

We as a Priesthood, you see, have access to God's Grace which we can intercede for any and all of mankind that God grant Mercy to those in need... Most are in great need... Profound need...

While that's true praying within the will of God is also necessary to obtain results of grace supplied. We have access to His throne to receive mercy and grace.

There is an ancient Christian understanding, that in the last days, when the last believer is killed by the haters of God, the world will cease to exist... That the very existence of the world rests upon the Faith and their prayers for the world of the faithful, and that without these prayers, the world will not exist... Indeed Hebrews records: Faith is the HYPOSTASIS of things hoped for/anticipated... It is the evidence of the unseen world, and its very BASIS [sub-standing]...

So that instead of reflecting God's Glory back to God, as a Royal Priesthood, should we not be intermediating that Glory to the fallen world and fallen man upon it, bringing to them and it the Mercy of God? For freely have ye received... Therefore freely be ye giving... And the more mature one becomes in the Faith of Christ, the greater can one give of Christ... And we give by interceding to God in behalf of those in need, and we rise by the prayers of those more mature than ourselves... Interecessory prayer is the essence of priestly prayer...

Arsenios

Intermediating that Glory? Spiritual warfare may be another form of priestly duties.

 

[Arsenios]

I've noticed that the Mt Sinai covenant was to the nation as a whole and was meant to be a nation of priests, but the promise of the NC is to a nation of kings and priests.

Forgive me I am not familiar with this terminology... Is the NC the Covenant of the Body and Blood of our Lord? And the MSC that through Moses to the Jews? The Great Commission was to the Apostles - The 12 and the 70... It was to enter the Nations [eg the ethnoi, all the peoples of the earth] into the heavenly Kingdom of God - Not to disciple them into an earthly kingdom with kings... I may not be understanding you aright here...

Seemingly therefore not all the Ekklesia are of a priesthood but some are destined as kings, which the nation of Israel was never given. As King of Kings Christ is the Head of all Ekklesia, but how do orthodox account for the nation of priest's expansion to include kings in the larger scope of the bible?

There are Orthodox countries, of course, and the greatest of these was the Roman Empire of the Byzantines, which lasted a thousand years, headquartered in Constantinople. The Patriarch and the Emperor were two very different people - One was to protect the other, and the other was the one to Bless the efforts of the Protector... eg In the Byzantine Empire, the Emperor was not an Ekklesiastical "position", but was a secular one - The Emperor was not a priest as Emperor, yet was a member of the Royal Priesthood of the Body of Christ as a secular Christian.

Indeed, the Flag of the Roman Empire in Constantinople was that of the two-headed eagle, where there were two heads of that Christian Empire - The secular and the sacred working in concert...

That's a nice expanded formula for prayer. The prayers of the saints are mentioned most in scripture and they seemed to have received mercy and were awaiting justice also within their prayers.
While that's true praying within the will of God is also necessary to obtain results of grace supplied. We have access to His throne to receive mercy and grace.

Having that access across time is not an automatic feature of embracing and professing Christianity, but is instead a Gift of God [Grace] given to those profoundly consecrated to God through living very repentant lives, following the narrow and obstructed [ascetic] Way of Life mentioned as having FEW who find it... That is why we need instruction from those who HAVE found it, from generation to generation...

Those guys are not all that easy to find!

Intermediating that Glory?

It is a kind of strange way of saying to pray for God's Mercy for another person...

Spiritual warfare may be another form of priestly duties.

That is what is discipled for the faithful to do... And yes, especially in confession, the one being confessed with, the Priest, CAN sometimes take on another's sins - Temporarily, as a rule... Until the person gains strength... Lay Orthodox also CAN do so, and are encouraged, in their ascetic endeavors, to dedicate their ascesis to the benefit of another person in need... Good things can happen there...

The Spiritual Good Samaritan joins Himself to those who do so...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Standing in the gap to be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to work thru does bring glory to God for the simple fact that co-operation is what the Lord has limited Himself to. All that is needed is a willing vessel interceding for others as well as interceding in spiritual warfare. Royal priesthood puts us immediately under our King and High Priest. Going to our mediator Christ places self and God in the rightful position afforded the priestly kingdom today. The willing vessel's honor or dishonor is in obedience to our Head in preparation for good work useful to the Master. For God made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[Arsenios]

Standing in the gap to be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to work thru does bring glory to God for the simple fact that co-operation is what the Lord has limited Himself to.

I think we simply have two ways of saying the same thing. Would you say that God is Glorified in His Saints? And if yes, then to whom IS He Glorified? And it is to those on earth who are NOT "standing in the gap"... For they either have no faith, nor do they Glorify God to anyone else, but instead abide in their darkness of soul nd heart... Saints Glorify God to those who are fallen... To Glorify God is to give God [credit for] the Glory - It was your words "bring glory to God" that I had the quibble about... I would say instead that they bring God's Glory to those not knowing God's Glory - Nor do they take credit for themselves for what God gave them...

All that is needed is a willing vessel interceding for others as well as interceding in spiritual warfare.

Well, Scripture does say that the prayer of a righteous one avails much... I took this to mean maturity in the Faith of Christ...

Royal priesthood puts us immediately under our King and High Priest.

As a Body, yes, as individuals, according to our maturity and God's Grace...

Going to our mediator Christ places self and God in the rightful position afforded the priestly kingdom today.

The biggest demons we must overcome are those found AFTER we enter into the Kingdom of Heaven [normally]... This is foreshadowed by David's overcoming of Goliath IN the Promised Land... Not before then...

I think we have a kind of basic understanding differeence here, in that for the Orthodox, entry is granted by Baptism into Christ, whereas I thin for you, it is entered by personal self alignment with Him...

The willing vessel's honor or dishonor is in obedience to our Head in preparation for good work useful to the Master.

And we understand this obedience as the discipling of the Apostolic Church of the nations, teaching them obedience to ALL God commanded them, and Baptizing them...

For God made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Indeed!

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I think we simply have two ways of saying the same thing. Would you say that God is Glorified in His Saints? And if yes, then to whom IS He Glorified? And it is to those on earth who are NOT "standing in the gap"... For they either have no faith, nor do they Glorify God to anyone else, but instead abide in their darkness of soul nd heart... Saints Glorify God to those who are fallen... To Glorify God is to give God [credit for] the Glory - It was your words "bring glory to God" that I had the quibble about... I would say instead that they bring God's Glory to those not knowing God's Glory - Nor do they take credit for themselves for what God gave them...

I think that anytime the Holy Spirit can overcome anything about the human nature it brings glory to God. This is for every Christian. You seem to confine grace as only belonging to a few who deliver to others life thru God's Word. While I agree that it's the propagation that causes the increase I don't think you can confine His glory to not include personal magnifying of His glory to every believer once received. You may believe priests have to dispence that grace regularly but suffice it to be found by going to Him.

Well, Scripture does say that the prayer of a righteous one avails much... I took this to mean maturity in the Faith of Christ...As a Body, yes, as individuals, according to our maturity and God's Grace...

Isaiah 59:15-17
The Lord saw it, and it displeased him
that there was no justice.
He saw that there was no man,
and wondered that there was no one to intercede;
then his own arm brought him salvation,
and his righteousness upheld him.
He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
and a helmet of salvation on his head;
he put on garments of vengeance for clothing,
and wrapped himself in zeal as a cloak.

The biggest demons we must overcome are those found TER into the Kingdom of Heaven [normally]... This is foreshadowed by David's overcoming of Goliath IN the Promised Land... Not before then...

What is TER? Can you explain the David/Goliath reference ...

I think we have a kind of basic understanding differeence here, in that for the Orthodox, entry is granted by Baptism into Christ, whereas I thin for you, it is entered by personal self alignment with Him...

If you call going to Christ in prayer self alignment then yes.

And we understand this obedience as the discipling of the Apostolic Church of the nations, teaching them obedience to ALL God commanded them, and Baptizing them...
Indeed!
Arsenios

Obedience is to Christ of course.[/quote][/QUOTE]