The power of forgiveness

[SumMer87]

Forgiveness... the idea of it gives us all a good feeling and peace of mind.

Then something happens, some one you have made yourself vulnerable to breaks that trust, some one you love falsely accuses you and has convinced themselves of irrational thinking, you are tremondously disappointed by some one you thought you looked up to. Sadly the list goes on.

I know myself well enough to know that my view on this, like a lot of things, is not conventional. We have God's word though, to help us through this. So i am going to go ahead and explain this dilema as best i can..

We live in a sin-bent world, and i have yet to encounter some one who has not been affected, in one way or another, by sin. This thread is about forigveness, and having been through one life trauma after the other, i realize the only way out of this "gutter" is through forgiveness. Forgiving as God forgave us, right?

Through bible studies, and just relationships in general, i assume that overall, people have the hardest time forgiving themselves over a friend or stranger they encounter who has wronged them. Like i have shared though, while my beliefs are Biblical, my dilemas are usually unconventional. Reason being: I find the hardest to forgive are others. I don't say this to sound "morally indenginous" 'cuz, trust me, I will raise my hand high and say what a no-good sinner and imperfect person I am. But the reason I can forgive myself is only because I know my heart. I know my intentions, but stating the obvious here, it's impossible to know others' hearts. So how do you forgive some one when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?

 

[Prizm]

But the reason I can forgive myself is only because I know my heart. I know my intentions, but stating the obvious here, it's impossible to know others' hearts. So how do you forgive some one when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

You forgive them because you know your heart. Your heart and their heart is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9)

It's a result of the curse of sin, and none of us are above reproach.

Many times forgiveness is an ongoing thing. Sometimes we must consciously make on-the-spot decisions that say, I know they hurt me, but I forgive them, and I'm going to do the right thing by them, regardless of whether it is received. We may still be hurting, but it must be an ongoing process of forgiveness.

Bite your tongue when you feel tempted to nail the person. Be approachable. Act like a christian. Sometimes the pain won't magically disappear just because you said "I forgive them". We need to work at it with a humble heart and intentions.

Over time things will get better if we keep a right heart.

If it is something that can be resolved by confronting the person, then we need to do that. Otherwise, we just need to follow Christ's command to forgive.

 

[SumMer87]

You forgive them because you know your heart. Your heart and their heart is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9)

It's a result of the curse of sin, and none of us are above reproach.

Over time things will get better if we keep a right heart.

If it is something that can be resolved by confronting the person, then we need to do that. Otherwise, we just need to follow Christ's command to forgive.

Oh yeah, i know.. I agree!! Thats part of our human nature isnt it? I sure don't claim to be above reproach, in need of Jesus is all I claim to be. But you know, the more I live, the more I see things and they are more black and white.. people have the fruits of the spirit or they don't. I realize no one is a "lost cause" or "hopeless" in God's eyes, and our God it mighty to save. I realize that I need to forgive these people, spiritually fruitless and all. But i am asking how?

I am no phony and only do things I am compelled to do, I feel compelled to forgive but I feel like it would be forced and I would not be forgiving whole-heartedly. how does some one find it in their hearts to MEAN it- not just say it

 

[wonderwaleye]

Forgiveness... the idea of it gives us all a good feeling and peace of mind.

Then something happens, some one you have made yourself vulnerable to breaks that trust, some one you love falsely accuses you and has convinced themselves of irrational thinking, you are tremondously disappointed by some one you thought you looked up to. Sadly the list goes on.

I know myself well enough to know that my view on this, like a lot of things, is not conventional. We have God's word though, to help us through this. So i am going to go ahead and explain this dilema as best i can..

We live in a sin-bent world, and i have yet to encounter some one who has not been affected, in one way or another, by sin. This thread is about forigveness, and having been through one life trauma after the other, i realize the only way out of this "gutter" is through forgiveness. Forgiving as God forgave us, right?

Through bible studies, and just relationships in general, i assume that overall, people have the hardest time forgiving themselves over a friend or stranger they encounter who has wronged them. Like i have shared though, while my beliefs are Biblical, my dilemas are usually unconventional. Reason being: I find the hardest to forgive are others. I don't say this to sound "morally indenginous" 'cuz, trust me, I will raise my hand high and say what a no-good sinner and imperfect person I am. But the reason I can forgive myself is only because I know my heart. I know my intentions, but stating the obvious here, it's impossible to know others' hearts. So how do you forgive some one when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?

It's not hard when you look at all the sins you have committed in your lifetime and you know that your sins will be treated the very same as you forgive others. Very simple really.


Now think about JESUS for a second. HE came here and was sinless and constantly run into the very same folks like you and the ones you talk about. Yet HE really suffered and was mocked with folks like you, others, and myself. Yet HE volunteered to suffer a painful death just so we could be united to GOD. Don't you know HE was a lonely camper in this world. Would you of done the same? NOW THINK ABOUT THAT FOREGIVENESS.



ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[SumMer87]

It's not hard when you look at all the sins you have committed in your lifetime and you know that your sins will be treated the very same as you forgive others. Very simple really.


Now think about JESUS for a second. HE came here and was sinless and constantly run into the very same folks like you and the ones you talk about. Yet HE really suffered and was mocked with folks like you, others, and myself. Yet HE volunteered to suffer a painful death just so we could be united to GOD. Don't you know HE was a lonely camper in this world. Would you of done the same? NOW THINK ABOUT THAT FOREGIVENESS.

My old pal Wonderwaleye, it seems we've discovered some more ground to cover on yet another thread i started.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think JESUS ever used GUILT in his ministry?

 

[wonderwaleye]

My old pal Wonderwaleye, it seems we've discovered some more ground to cover on yet another thread i started.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think JESUS ever used GUILT in his ministry?

L O L !!!!

 

[Zeena]

Oh yeah, i know.. I agree!! Thats part of our human nature isnt it? I sure don't claim to be above reproach, in need of Jesus is all I claim to be. But you know, the more I live, the more I see things and they are more black and white.. people have the fruits of the spirit or they don't. I realize no one is a "lost cause" or "hopeless" in God's eyes, and our God it mighty to save. I realize that I need to forgive these people, spiritually fruitless and all. But i am asking how?

I am no phony and only do things I am compelled to do, I feel compelled to forgive but I feel like it would be forced and I would not be forgiving whole-heartedly. how does some one find it in their hearts to MEAN it- not just say it

1 John 5:4

• American Standard Version (ASV)
  For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith.

You believe you've recieved the person of Jesus as your Life precious Saint?

John 15:4

• American Standard Version (ASV)
  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me.

He forgives..

2 Corinthians 5:14

• American Standard Version (ASV)
  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;

Luke 23:34

• American Standard Version (ASV)
  And Jesus said, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And parting his garments among them, they cast lots.

Time to reckon it so

John 3:17

• King James Version (KJV)
  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Elijah2]

Forgiveness... the idea of it gives us all a good feeling and peace of mind.
Forgiveness isn’t an idea, but a COMMANDMENT from our Lord Jesus Christ.

When we forgive it’s like removing fishhooks from under the skin, and as they are pulled out it releases all the pain in our “spiritual mind” (our heart). The “carnal mind” (our brain) is what controls most of our emotions through our “will”, “pride”, “selfishness”, and “self-centredness”, because they “harden our heart” and our “heart” refuses to forgive.

Then something happens, some one you have made yourself vulnerable to breaks that trust, some one you love falsely accuses you and has convinced themselves of irrational thinking, you are tremondously disappointed by some one you thought you looked up to. Sadly the list goes on.
Yes, the list will continue to go on when one doesn’t confess and repent their sins of unforgiveness, and ask our Lord Jesus Christ to forgive them.

When another makes you angry, bitter, and disappointed, then the sin is by letting the “sun to set on anger”, allowing bitterness to also form upon the “heart”. The “hardness of heart” grieves our Lord Jesus Christ because it leads to “sin”, and we lose control of our emotions burying them deep down within our “soul” making our heart hard and unforgiving.

I know myself well enough to know that my view on this, like a lot of things, is not conventional. We have God's word though, to help us through this. So i am going to go ahead and explain this dilema as best i can.
Many things in His Word appear to be unconventional, such as “LOVE” and “FORGIVENSS”!

We live in a sin-bent world, and i have yet to encounter some one who has not been affected, in one way or another, by sin.
Now that’s “TRUTH”!

This thread is about forigveness, and having been through one life trauma after the other, i realize the only way out of this "gutter" is through forgiveness. Forgiving as God forgave us, right?
Yep, the biggest “TRUTH” that will set a person free from the captivity of their “strongholds”!

Through bible studies, and just relationships in general, i assume that overall, people have the hardest time forgiving themselves over a friend or stranger they encounter who has wronged them.
Sorry, you are wrong, because when another person offends and wrongs us, we “FORGIVE” them, not ourself. We confess and repent our sin of feeling offended, and allowing ourself to become angry, bitter, and resentful toward another person. We are commanded to forgive them before “the sun sets on anger” (Eph. 4:26) and prevent our “bitterness from springing up and defiling others” (Heb. 12:15)

The hardest time in the law of forgiveness is forgiving OURSELVES, when we do something terrible, and despictable against another person; and even though we have confessed and repented that terrible thing, and our Lord Jesus Christ has forgiven us, we still struggle with the “guilt and shame” of what we had did, and still remember that time. When we forgive ourself for that terrible thing, then forgiveness is completely fulfilled, and we “remember no more”.

And when we come to that fulfillment we find it easier to love one another.

Like i have shared though, while my beliefs are Biblical, my dilemas are usually unconventional. Reason being: I find the hardest to forgive are others. I don't say this to sound "morally indenginous" 'cuz, trust me, I will raise my hand high and say what a no-good sinner and imperfect person I am.
The reason why you feel the way you do, is because you have a “hardened heart” and you haven’t confessed or repented your own sins. Being a “SINNER” isn’t “unconventional”, but dangerous in regards to your inheritance of His Kingdom.

When a person struggles with simple forgiveness, then “pride” and no “love” is the main controlling feature of unforgiveness.

I am sorry, if I am blunt and to the point, but the hardest thing of all for a forgiving person to do is to forgive themself for those terrible things that they did in their life.

No one, can forgive themself for a SIN that can only be forgiven by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Have you EVER asked our Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you for your terrible sins, the same sort of sins that other people have committed against you, the same as those sins that you can’t forgive. Is that selfishness?

But the reason I can forgive myself is only because I know my heart.
Sorry, you DON’T know your heart, because your “heart is hardened”; you have no love.

HIS COMMANDMENTS is an order to us to forgive those who trespass against us, seven times seventy; and most of all we are to love one another as much as we love our Lord Jesus Christ.

How much love do you have for our Lord Jesus Christ?

I know my intentions, but stating the obvious here, it's impossible to know others' hearts.
Intentions are “SELF”!

So how do you forgive some one when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?
Don’t worry about the interest of the other person’s heart, it’s YOUR HEART that counts with our Lord Jesus Christ. You are the one who has to get yourself right with our Lord Jesus Christ, because you are the one who is UNFORGIVING.

And you can do that by forgiving those who trespass against you!

But, you need to get yourself right with our Lord Jesus Christ first, by confessing and repenting your sin of a “hardened heart”, anger, bitterness, resentfulness, and unforgiveness, and ask HIM for HIS forgiveness of you.

Then you need to start removing all those fish-hooks that are imbedded under you skin, and being forgiving and loving those people who have hurt and offended you.

See if you can get a copy of Freedom in Christ by Neil Anderson, which will lead you in the right direction.

 

[Zeena]

I am sorry, if I am blunt and to the point, but the hardest thing of all for a forgiving person to do is to forgive themself for those terrible things that they did in their life.

1 John 5:3

• American Standard Version (ASV)
  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

It's as we reckon what we've recieved in the Person of Christ that this becomes our experience.. Jesus, Living His Holy Life in and through us by Grace through faith, forgives.

 

[Prizm]

I am no phony and only do things I am compelled to do, I feel compelled to forgive but I feel like it would be forced and I would not be forgiving whole-heartedly. how does some one find it in their hearts to MEAN it- not just say it

Hi Summer,

Sometimes I think that's the only way to do it. First we ask God's forgiveness for harbouring our unforgiveness towards that person. And then we need ask God to help us forgive that person.

It reminds me of what the man said desperately in Mark 9:24 "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!". Except replace it with "Lord I forgive, help my unforgiveness!". As I mentioned in the last post, it may very well take some "going through the motions" of keeping a right heart and right intentions towards that person, even though you don't feel like it. Make sure you constantly check your heart to make sure you're not letting any bitterness or angry thoughts build up.

Even though you may not feel like being kind to that person, one way to help break that unforgiveness is to do the opposite of what your flesh wants to do. For example, if your flesh says ignore them, say hi instead.

As I said previously, sometimes there's no easy or magical fix. Just keep striving for a right heart towards that person.

 

[Elijah2]

1 John 5:3

• American Standard Version (ASV)
  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

It's as we reckon what we've recieved in the Person of Christ that this becomes our experience.. Jesus, Living His Holy Life in and through us by Grace through faith, forgives.

Thanks Zeena, but what point are you trying to make?

I've been around the traps of forgiveness for a long time, and I can assure you that many who claim they have forgiven others, but still suffer from guilt and shame, even after they forgive, and when you bring them to an understanding to forgive themself, and when you lead them in prayer, a great release takes place.

Thanks!

 

[SumMer87]

Forgiveness... the idea of it gives us all a good feeling and peace of mind.
Forgiveness isn’t an idea, but a COMMANDMENT from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Didn't want to be a space hog and took the liberty of just quoting your opening sentence so it would be clear who i was responding to.

Can't respond to every blankit label you through out, but I'll get as far as the first. I think it's great you so eloquently knew EXACTLY the word to call what forgiveness is. We could sit here and say what forgiveness is all night.. so I can't exactly tell- but you disagree that forgiveness is a good idea?
Yes, it is a Commandment. Never said it wasn't. Don't exactly see your point with that statement.

How do you expect faith seekers, and people of all walks of life who read these posts to see this, and also know Jesus' teachings/ideas/beliefs/commandments: "
"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34
A moral indigenous post has no room for love.

I could sit here and take apart each sentence of your post, like you did to mine, but that still doesnt settle my intent for this post- which certainly wasnt to start a debate via CF. I've given you all the information needed and would be repeating myself (which you feel the need to tell me is not what I am "truly" struggling with in my life because thats just something people dont struggle with- cause you would be able to know that and all- LIKE I SAID, get outside of the box and realize not everyone fits your checklist of what a christian must do/be/appear to be- thats called legalism), and as a Christian earnestly seeking to become more like Jesus, all I am receiving are moral indigenous posts. Which none of you SEEMED to have EVERRRRR struggled with such "abhorrent" things as forgiveness!!!! "Oh no, not me!"

Honestly this whole "CHRISTIAN SITE" is the biggest FARCE.. like its supposed to be some kind of Christian "utopia"? ... it is just that, clearly.

But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
Hebrews 3:13.

maybe keep that in mind when posting.

I'm officially not giving this thread anymore credibility and will not be responding... feel free to share BIBLICAL ideas in a BIBLICAL way. If you really want to help a sister out feel free to PM me, but me not responding on this extremely misguided thread is because its too little too late..

 

[Zeena]

Thanks Zeena, but what point are you trying to make?

That apart from reckoning the forgiveness that is in Christ Jesus [alone] as our own [in the Person of Christ], we cannot forgive!

I've been around the traps of forgiveness for a long time, and I can assure you that many who claim they have forgiven others, but still suffer from guilt and shame, ..

The guilt and shame are not of God.
And it with this in mind that Godly counselling takes place.

even after they forgive, and when you bring them to an understanding to forgive themself, ..

The understanding aught to be of Christ alone!
And every word you have written in response is centred around the fruit and not the Person of Jesus!

The fruit is [ONLY] found in Christ, and THIS is the understanding of God!

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

and when you lead them in prayer, a great release takes place.

Thanks!

Prayer apart from Truth is fruitless!
And it is the prophetic word which builds up.

SumMer87 I pray God you read this, for it effects your Eternal Salvation!!!

JESUS IS YOUR LIFE!
YOU* CAN FORGIVE BECAUSE HE CAN AND DOES FORGIVE IN AND THROUGH YOU!

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

ACCEPT your deliverance, I pray God this day!
In Jesus Name, AMEN!

 

[sk8Joyful]

Forgiveness... the idea of it gives us all a good feeling and peace of mind.

So how do you forgive some one, when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?

It's easy.

Forgiveness has little to do with another, who wronged you.

Forgiveness has everything to do, with what it will help you do for yourself: namely, promptly REstore your peace-of-mind, plus your joyful emotions, plus your physical health. <-- These are your blessings/rewards of forgiving.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Honestly this whole "CHRISTIAN SITE" is the biggest FARCE.. like its supposed to be some kind of Christian "utopia"? ... it is just that, clearly.quote]


I can see your very young and maybe rebelling against GOD. I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Please explain so that I might have an UNDERSTANDING of why you said this.



There are a lot of folks out there with very serious problems, are lost, and looking for answers. On the day JESUS ascended up to the KINGDOM of ALMIGHTY GOD HE COMMANDED us to:


" GO FORTH UNTO THE ENTIRE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL "



This forum is a VERY IMPORTANT tool used to carry out this work. We are not perfect but most folks do their very best to help others.



When I was ANOINTED by GOD HE told me I would be writing to help the poor. Well I'm 65 and in poor health. Yet because of this forum I can continue to carry out my MISSION. I feel folks from all walks are BLESSED by having this forum.



When I write my posts I ask the HOLY SPIRITS GUIDANCE to answer what GOD would have me answer. There are times I am really amazed at what I had written. But I have the WISDOM to know I didn't write it, GOD DID. So GOD speaks directly to HIS children through HIS children.



I would hope you would reconsider.




ALWAYS REMEMBER:

JESUS IS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AT!!! EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE HIM!!!

( left click and hold over the above to see your personal message )

 

[Elijah2]

I realise that you didn’t come to be a “space hog”, and I didn’t post to “LABEL” you either.

I gave answers and advice to each statement you made honestly. Each statement was advice, NOT LABELLING. Cold hard facts of TRUTH!

I’ve run across many people, just like you, who react in the same way when given TRUTH. What makes you think that I am: a labeller; or unloving, or callus, or not a good example for “faith seekers”.

You gave your feelings of iterpretation and I gave you cold hard facts of TRUTH in dealing with your interpretations. And if you claim that my advice is: “A moral indigenous post has no room for love”, then you are searching for more than ADVICE, which can’t be given on an ADVICE FORUM.

My last statement to you was: “See if you can get a copy of Freedom in Christ by Neil Anderson, which will lead you in the right direction.”

You say: “I could sit here and take apart each sentence of your post, like you did to mine”. I didn’t take you apart at all, but gave you straightforward honest advice.

Yes, you did give me all the information needed, and I answered them accordingly. You said nothing about that you only wanted “comfort”!

If you are struggling with your life problems, then go and see your pastor or a Christian counsellor, or obtain a copy of the book that I suggested to you to read.

There is nothing about putting anyone in a box, because you said that you can forgive yourself, but you can’t forgive others. And I only answered your comments one by one accordingly, nothing more nothing less.

My dear sister, I’ve seen many people like you, and they all fit the checklist, and there is nothing about Forgiveness Ministry that is legalism. It’s cold hard facts of life!

If you believe that my advice to you is “a moral indigenous post”, then you are obviously struggling with a lot deeper things that you haven’t shared.

I am 71 years my dear sister, and I have helped MANY through UNFORGIVENESS. I was probably like you fifty years ago.

You say: “this whole "CHRISTIAN SITE" is the biggest FARCE.. like its supposed to be some kind of Christian "utopia"? ... it is just that, clearly.”

Well that statement indicates to me that you are NOT prepared to listen to any advice given, if it doesn’t marry up with your interpretation, because you believe that if someone comes along with truth through “tough love”, and not give you that comfort truth of “soft love” that you want, then they are labelling, legalistic, indigneous, and offensive.

You stated what your problem is---UNFORGIVENESS, but you never indicated that you needed encouragement, that you were not just an unforgiving Christian, but a STRUGGLING Christian, who needed their broken-heart healed, set free from captivity, and have an inner healing. This can’t happened from a good old comfort zone encouragement, as you said: “But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. Hebrews 3:13”


You gave no indication that you needed encouragement but told me that you needed to know how to “FORGIVE”. I am so sorry that you feel as though I was offensive toward you, and that others have let you down as well.

I will PM you.

 

[Elijah2]

That apart from reckoning the forgiveness that is in Christ Jesus [alone] as our own [in the Person of Christ], we cannot forgive!


The guilt and shame are not of God.
And it with this in mind that Godly counselling takes place.


The understanding aught to be of Christ alone!
And every word you have written in response is centred around the fruit and not the Person of Jesus!

The fruit is [ONLY] found in Christ, and THIS is the understanding of God!

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Prayer apart from Truth is fruitless!
And it is the prophetic word which builds up.

SumMer87 I pray God you read this, for it effects your Eternal Salvation!!!

JESUS IS YOUR LIFE!
YOU* CAN FORGIVE BECAUSE HE CAN AND DOES FORGIVE IN AND THROUGH YOU!

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

ACCEPT your deliverance, I pray God this day!
In Jesus Name, AMEN!

Zeena my dear sister, I appreciate your comments, but have you ever counselled a person who suffers from unforgiveness through HATE, abuse and trauma through the powers of darkness, or from a war zone?

Your truths are truth for simple unforgiveness.

Who ever said that guilt and shame is of God, only Satan and his forces of demons cause guilt and shame. But, when a believer ignores the Holy Spirit's conviction, then the enemy gets on the bandwaggon causing those to feel guilty and shame.

Oh, by the way, I am talking from my own personal experience of abuse, tauma, powers of darkness and war zone.

Blessings.

 

[drich0150]

But the reason I can forgive myself is only because I know my heart. I know my intentions, but stating the obvious here, it's impossible to know others' hearts. So how do you forgive some one when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?

I found the easiest way to forgive someone is to look and acknowledge my own sins.. All of them. even the ones that the "intentions of my heart" may have not been so good.. (If we are honest we all can at least think of one, and one is enough to condemn us to hell.) I having those sins (In abundance) are like those who having the same kind a sin that have been committed against me.. (Or as you put it: some one when you have exhibit A-Z on why their actions showed they didn't have anyones interest at heart but their own?)

Jesus tells us if we wish to have our sins forgiven we must in turn forgive others, in the parable of the unmerciful servant in Mt.18: 21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

If we take an honest look of a current inventory of sin we can usually find an instance where we have been shown mercy, and our debt has been erased, but in our own ledger we look to collect in the same manor where we have been pardoned.. God being many things, and Righteous being one of them.. He can not allow the righteousness of man to benefit from his forgiveness, and profit by collecting where our debt has been canceled..

This reality, and not thinking of myself or my intentions any higher than I should had lead me to humbly look at what I really owe God.. Just the shear size of my debt has taken the right to with hold forgiveness from me..

With that said, there is a difference between forgiveness and reckless hope in that someone will not sin again..

Forgiveness affords a brother or sister to live and work with the "sinner/one being forgiven" in a responsible way. Reckless hope pretends that the sin never happened and everything is as it was before the sin. If we choose to label reckless hope "forgiveness" then we will reap from our own foolishness. (You wouldn't put a ex-child molester in charge of a Sunday school class right?) But it would be equally foolish to turn away the same person if he sought a relationship with God.. There is a middle ground that can be found to accommodate forgiveness.. That is if what the other person truly seeks..

 

[Zeena]

Zeena my dear sister, I appreciate your comments, but have you ever counselled a person who suffers from unforgiveness through HATE, abuse and trauma through the powers of darkness, or from a war zone?

It's not a matter of if I've counselled someone who is holding hate in thier heart, for I myself have been comforted by God while holding hate dear to my soul, thus am I qualified to speak!

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

I clung to hatred for dear life, refusing to let go at the prompting of the Lord! I know how sweet it feels to think justice is being met out and how vivacious it feels to be walking after the flesh in pure abandonment.

Your truths are truth for simple unforgiveness.

It is not my Truth, but the Lord's I behold, for I behold Him.

And the Truth as stated applies to all area's of Living, not just while holding unforgiveness in our hearts.

Galatians 5:16-26
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

The Holy Spirit reminded me that I died and that my life was now hid with Christ in God. He recanted numerous Scripture verses pertaining to the death of Christ as not only the propitiation for my sin, but in ressurection, as the justification for my LIFE! He, in His infinate wisdom supplied my every [spiritual] need and then reminded me what I've received in the Person of Christ! I received Jesus, why would I ever think for a second that I had the power to love my husband when it was in Him all along!?!

I'm not God.. I would try in my might, but I always failed, for God will not give His Glory to another, nor His praise to idols..

I could not forgive my husband, this much the Holy Spirit testified as true.
But He left me not in the mud to wallow, but lifted me higher!!

We forgive because Jesus forgives in and through us, not by anything which we ourselves can muster up! Otherwise, where does that leave our Saviour?

No, it's Jesus, or it's nothing!
The cup is either full or empty!
And if it's full you SHALL do the works of God, for it is then God who works in you, to will and to do according to His good pleasure!

And it is His will to forgive, and not just a few!

He allowed me to fail, so that I turn to Him in Truth, for it is only in Him that Truth abounds.

Peace.

 

[Elijah2]

It's not a matter of if I've counselled someone who is holding hate in thier heart, for I myself have been comforted by God while holding hate dear to my soul, thus am I qualified to speak!

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

I clung to hatred for dear life, refusing to let go at the prompting of the Lord! I know how sweet it feels to think justice is being met out and how vivacious it feels to be walking after the flesh in pure abandonment.

It is not my Truth, but the Lord's I behold, for I behold Him.

And the Truth as stated applies to all area's of Living, not just while holding unforgiveness in our hearts.

Galatians 5:16-26
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

The Holy Spirit reminded me that I died and that my life was now hid with Christ in God. He recanted numerous Scripture verses pertaining to the death of Christ as not only the propitiation for my sin, but in ressurection, as the justification for my LIFE! He, in His infinate wisdom supplied my every [spiritual] need and then reminded me what I've received in the Person of Christ! I received Jesus, why would I ever think for a second that I had the power to love my husband when it was in Him all along!?!

I'm not God.. I would try in my might, but I always failed, for God will not give His Glory to another, nor His praise to idols..

I could not forgive my husband, this much the Holy Spirit testified as true.
But He left me not in the mud to wallow, but lifted me higher!!

We forgive because Jesus forgives in and through us, not by anything which we ourselves can muster up! Otherwise, where does that leave our Saviour?

No, it's Jesus, or it's nothing!
The cup is either full or empty!
And if it's full you SHALL do the works of God, for it is then God who works in you, to will and to do according to His good pleasure!

And it is His will to forgive, and not just a few!

He allowed me to fail, so that I turn to Him in Truth, for it is only in Him that Truth abounds.

Peace.

My dear sister, the place that you are at, is the place were we try to get those struggling Christians to, and there are many paths and ways to that place.

When we accept our Lord Jesus Christ into our life, it&#8217;s said that we are &#8220;born again&#8221;, and &#8220;saved&#8221;.

&#8220;Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God&#8230; Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.&#8221; (John 3:3 & 5-6)

&#8220;Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever&#8221; (1 Pet. 1:22-23).

&#8220;He who believes and is baptized will be saved&#8221; (Mark 16:16)

Sad as it is, many who believe they are saved, are not!


The foundation of a new born-again is the &#8220;incorruptible seed of His Word&#8221;, they believe in our Lord Jesus Christ and are baptised in water; and then build a personal relationship with, and have a real knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit. When we know our Lord Jesus Christ and trust Him, then there is hope, power and victory to be found in His person through His Word and His Commandments.

The 21st Century in these &#8220;the last days of perilous times&#8221; and the days ahead of us in the future can be testing, alarming, and full of many obstacles, temptations, and trials.

Sadly many Christians are ill prepared and have no idea, or are aware of what evil lays before them and around them. Many live a life of desperation, as the system around them has not been kind to them. They have not been prepared, because their church leaders have not fed or tended their needs through good and sound doctrine, and lack any spiritual insight.

Lost in their lonliness and self-pity they cling to a thin thread of hope that somehow our Lord Jesus Christ will breakdown their strongholds, and break through their fog of despair that has surrounded their life before they were saved and continue on after their salvation.

The sin within the Body of Christ has become enormous as the doors of His churches are being buffeted by much false teaching through the infiltration of new age, and other religion&#8217;s thinking, beliefs, and practices. Many are conforming to the world through political correctness; discrimination; accusations; humanism; and secularism, which have broken down the very Christian heritage that founded Christian-Bible-based countries.

Anyway, this is an advice forum, not a debate forum. So I'll leave it there.

Blessings!