The point of hell?

[SnowyMacie]

What is the point of hell like why would god make it. Like why send people to eternal punishment. Not only that but some of the reasons you go to hell just don't seem just. Like finite mistakes for infinite punishment...

Hell is likely the state of being in the presence of God without accepting His love. It is essentially going to be internally tormenting for those who still refuse God after the second coming. They will essentially refuse it to the point the become something unhuman and be beyond pity. It's not really so much punishment for what they've done in life, but merely the result of how they lived it.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

What is the point of hell like why would god make it. Like why send people to eternal punishment. Not only that but some of the reasons you go to hell just don't seem just. Like finite mistakes for infinite punishment...

I own the copyright to "like". Like every time you say or write like like you owe me like $ .25 cents. Like you unnastand dat?

 

[Brokenhill]

That's essentially a claim that God created something evil, which his nature makes impossible. No, God more created hell than the sun creates shadows, which are actually created by that which blocks out the light. Before they were actualized by Satan, sin and hell were only theoretical possibilities as a logical consequence of the creation of good beings that posess the good of free will. They were not creations of God, but were formed by the creatures that rejected him.

Mat. 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"

Straight from the mouth of Jesus.

Why would the devil (or evil beings) intentionally prepare a place of torment for themselves?

The creation of hell is not an evil action. It is a just action, and it's actually a loving action if you think about what it does for the followers of God. God loves His voluntary children, so by locking up all the evil ones in hell, He is safe-gaurding His true children so that they would no longer be persecuted or tempted.

 

[anonymous person]

That's essentially a claim that God created something evil, which his nature makes impossible. No, God more created hell than the sun creates shadows, which are actually created by that which blocks out the light. Before they were actualized by Satan, sin and hell were only theoretical possibilities as a logical consequence of the creation of good beings that posess the good of free will. They were not creations of God, but were formed by the creatures that rejected him.

I'm just telling you what Jesus said. What you want me to believe is that He didn't know what He was talking about. Sorry, but I think Jesus knew what He was talking about when He talked about hell.

 

[anonymous person]

Mat. 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"

Straight from the mouth of Jesus.

Why would the devil (or evil beings) intentionally prepare a place of torment for themselves?

The creation of hell is not an evil action. It is a just action, and it's actually a loving action if you think about what it does for the followers of God. God loves His voluntary children, so by locking up all the evil ones in hell, He is safe-gaurding His true children so that they would no longer be persecuted or tempted.

Some are unwilling to believe that God would create a place where eternal moral agents who do not want to spend eternity with Him can abide.

Jesus said hell was created, that settles it for me. Good post.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

I'm just telling you what Jesus said. What you want me to believe is that He didn't know what He was talking about. Sorry, but I think Jesus knew what He was talking about when He talked about hell.

It is a certified fact that Jesus knows what he is talking about since he is God. It is only the certified nut case that directly disputes what Jesus says.

 

[chilehed]

Mat. 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"

Straight from the mouth of Jesus.

Conspicuously absent is anyhing about "which God has created". You added that in yourself, Jesus didn't say it.

Why would the devil (or evil beings) intentionally prepare a place of torment for themselves?

You could ask the same thing about why they rebelled at all, because it was the same act. Kind of like shooting a gun into your temple is the same act as blowing your brains out. The nature of the act is not the same as the motive for doing it.

The creation of hell is not an evil action. It is a just action, and it's actually a loving action if you think about what it does for the followers of God. God loves His voluntary children, so by locking up all the evil ones in hell, He is safe-gaurding His true children so that they would no longer be persecuted or tempted.

Hell is the place where God's presence is not, where there is the absence of Good. God, being Goodness itself, creates that which is good: God looked at his creation, and saw that it was good. I, for one, don't think that hell is a good place.

 

[Job8]

God didn't make hell. We did that ourselves.

This is the shallow understanding of a lot of people -- "we did that ourselves". But if any man could catch a glimpse of Hell, the reality of Hell would finally sink in. At present, what we have are the words of Christ that Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels. And the only One who can prepare a place of eternal punishment and torment for spirit beings is God Himself.

We see over and over again people talking about why was Hell necessary, when it is clearly spelled out in Scripture. It is also clearly spelled out that God does NOT want to see any human being in Hell. That is precisely why Christ came to this earth to die on the Cross and rise again on the third day.

 

[Dr.J0sh]

I own the copyright to "like". Like every time you say or write like like you owe me like $ .25 cents. Like you unnastand dat?

Well like last time that I like checked I like owned like cause like is like my word ya know like I like to use like like alot. You better like unnastand that maaaayng .

 

[hedrick]

"the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels" does seem to say that God created hell. At least in this passage it's not just a natural consequence but a situation specifically prepared, though no human was intended to go there. It's hard to imagine anyone other than God preparing it. Indeed it was customary for Jews to use passive constructs like this to avoid mentioning God, to minimize the use of God's name. For example in the Beatitudes, the implication is that God will comfort them, fill them, etc. The passives used when describing the rewards are almost certainly reference to God's actions.

How literally one takes this is another matter, but the literal meaning the words seems pretty clear.

 

[Brokenhill]

Conspicuously absent is anyhing about "which God has created". You added that in yourself, Jesus didn't say it.

You could ask the same thing about why they rebelled at all, because it was the same act. Kind of like shooting a gun into your temple is the same act as blowing your brains out. The nature of the act is not the same as the motive for doing it.


Hell is the place where God's presence is not, where there is the absence of Good. God, being Goodness itself, creates that which is good: God looked at his creation, and saw that it was good. I, for one, don't think that hell is a good place.

I agree that part of what makes Hell, Hell, is the fact that it is the furthest possible distance from God and light...so part of that torment is the depression/emotional anguish of not seeing light nor having hope.

Luke 16: " 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that [n]none may cross over[/b] from there to us.’"

Jude: "12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit,doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. 14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Those are scary scenes. A chasm has been FIXED, and the darkness has been RESERVED.
Who has the authority to create a holding place for evil? Scripture only gives us reason to believe that God does. The devil only has authority on EARTH and it's even limited on earth as it is.
God is putting all of Jesus' enemies under His feet. Judgement (just and holy judgement) will take place at the end of [our] times.

Why do you find it difficult to believe God could create a Hell (eternal judgement consequence), when he clearly made temporal/physical judgements in the OT and destroyed nations? And even struck His own Jewish people?

God would not be light, not be holy, not be just, if He let evil/rebellion remain ETERNALLY in his kingdom.

Also, about your Genesis reference:
The creation WAS good (completely) up until the point that Eve/Adam brought sin and corruption in to the mix. Then the physical world was no longer entirely good. Regardless though, Hell is not a place on earth...and I don't think it's necessarily a physical place (the descriptions about being a lake of fire in my opinion are just to help us grasp what it may be like...for the same reason Revelation uses imagery for Heaven with precious gems).
Hell wasn't apart of the original physical creation so I don't see how the passage you referenced applies.

We all have to be careful about over/under-emphasizing a particular character trait of the nature of God. We must take Him in His completely given state that He has revealed to us.

Take care.

 

[chilehed]

This is the shallow understanding of a lot of people -- "we did that ourselves". ...We see over and over again people talking about why was Hell necessary, when it is clearly spelled out in Scripture...

People keep saying that it's clearly spelled out in Scripture, but that doesn't make it so. You're confusing what you think scripture says with what it actually does say, and not doing the work of thinking deeply about the nature of God and of evil.

St. Thomas Aquinas, one of (if not the) deepest thinkers in history, did do that work. He concluded that God is the cause of things by causing their existence. Evil is a privation, i.e. it is the lack of some due perfection or existence in something that already has existence. There can be nothing that is "pure evil;" an evil thing is first a thing. Consequently it has some existence, and so has some good, of which God is the cause. Since evil is the lack of existence, God is not the direct, i.e. per se, cause of it; He is the cause of evil only indirectly, i.e. per accidens, insofar as He causes things to exist in which there is found some evil.

And the reason there is evil is the free will action of some of his creations. Therefore, it is those creations that are responsible for evil, and therefore the existence of hell.

Given the choice of agreeing with the position of Aquinas (which is carefully reasoned and does not contradict what scripture actually says) or agreeing with yours (which is eisegetical and ultimately contradicts what we know of the nature of God), I go with Aquinas.

 

[anonymous person]

People keep saying that it's clearly spelled out in Scripture, but that doesn't make it so. You're confusing what you think scripture says with what it actually does say, and not doing the work of thinking deeply about the nature of God and of evil.

St. Thomas Aquinas, one of (if not the) deepest thinkers in history, did do that work. He concluded that God is the cause of things by causing their existence. Evil is a privation, i.e. it is the lack of some due perfection or existence in something that already has existence. There can be nothing that is "pure evil;" an evil thing is first a thing. Consequently it has some existence, and so has some good, of which God is the cause. Since evil is the lack of existence, God is not the direct, i.e. per se, cause of it; He is the cause of evil only indirectly, i.e. per accidens, insofar as He causes things to exist in which there is found some evil.

And the reason there is evil is the free will action of some of his creations. Therefore, it is those creations that are responsible for evil, and therefore the existence of hell.

Given the choice of agreeing with the position of Aquinas (which is carefully reasoned and does not contradict what scripture actually says) or agreeing with yours (which is eisegetical and ultimately contradicts what we know of the nature of God), I go with Aquinas.

Hell is not evil though. It is a place God made for people to abide forever that do not want to abide with Him.

 

[chilehed]

Hell is not evil though. It is a place God made for people to abide forever that do not want to abide with Him.

You're begging the question.

 

[hedrick]

People keep saying that it's clearly spelled out in Scripture, but that doesn't make it so. You're confusing what you think scripture says with what it actually does say, and not doing the work of thinking deeply about the nature of God and of evil.

I don't quite understand what this response is saying. Are you arguing that God didn't create hell? Saying that God didn't create evil isn't the same thing as saying that he didn't create hell.

I'm not at all sure what hell is. The Biblical pictures seem to be symbolic. But there seems pretty good Biblical answer that God is in some sense responsible, even if he's just responsible for making sure that certain people are kept in a state where they can no longer abuse others.

 

[Brokenhill]

People keep saying that it's clearly spelled out in Scripture, but that doesn't make it so. You're confusing what you think scripture says with what it actually does say, and not doing the work of thinking deeply about the nature of God and of evil.

St. Thomas Aquinas, one of (if not the) deepest thinkers in history, did do that work. He concluded that God is the cause of things by causing their existence. Evil is a privation, i.e. it is the lack of some due perfection or existence in something that already has existence. There can be nothing that is "pure evil;" an evil thing is first a thing. Consequently it has some existence, and so has some good, of which God is the cause. Since evil is the lack of existence, God is not the direct, i.e. per se, cause of it; He is the cause of evil only indirectly, i.e. per accidens, insofar as He causes things to exist in which there is found some evil.

And the reason there is evil is the free will action of some of his creations. Therefore, it is those creations that are responsible for evil, and therefore the existence of hell.

Given the choice of agreeing with the position of Aquinas (which is carefully reasoned and does not contradict what scripture actually says) or agreeing with yours (which is eisegetical and ultimately contradicts what we know of the nature of God), I go with Aquinas.

Just wanted to make a general comment here:
Scripture was intended for everyone, and arguably even more so for those who are simple-minded/uneducated, poor, etc.
The more we can take scripture at face value, the better we'll all be with our studies. God is not the author of confusion and He doesn't require us to be very deep thinkers (in the worldly sense). His word is intended to be very straight forward most of the time...easily understood by all.
When He says "repent everyone of you and be baptized", He means repent and be baptized. When He says that hell has been prepared...it has been prepared.
We should all be careful not to fall in to the trap of over-thinking things.

However, i'm not trying to suggest a non-chalant attitude toward scripture or to avoid deeper studies.

 

[rockytopva]

The point of hell? Because we cannot have people like this in heaven!

 

[com7fy8]

What is the point of hell like why would god make it.

So He has a place for keeping Satan and Satan's evil angels . . . this is better than letting them keep doing all their evil all over the place. So - - - I would say this is good. And there are people so conceited that they think they are too good for Jesus; so hell is a place where they can stay away from Jesus. But away from Jesus is very awful, in sin . . . and how sin in one's nature makes someone able to suffer in the fire, instead of benefitting from how fire can purify us more and more if we are in God's love.

There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). This spirit of Satan is horrible, with nasty and negative reacting and an aweful-mess of worry and boredom and loneliness and nasty angry reacting and unforgiveness and bitterness and lusts which dominate and drive people to feel pleasure so they can feel something nicer. But their pleasures can't cure their deep problem of Satan's selfish spirit in their character, in their sin. But people are so stubborn that they refuse to trust Jesus to deliver them "from the power of Satan to God" (Acts 26:18).

This is how stubborn people in sin are: they have such filth and sewage of Satan's nasty and corrupt spirit in them, but they refuse to trust God to save them and clear them so they are in His love, instead. And such people are stubborn, stubborn, stubborn . . . like how Satan and his evil angels are stubborn. So, only fire can control such stubborn beings!!

Like why send people to eternal punishment.

The fire is practical, not only a punishment. Fire is for controlling those who are so stubborn!! But it is punishment, too . . . a consequence.

So, it is sin which is unfair. A wrong action can have a very unfair consequence, for example if a little girl in a moment of foolishness disobeys Mommy by running out in the street, she could be killed or crippled for life . . . because sin is so unfair.

God has hell as His sewage place, for Satan's evil spirit, then; but a lot of people are volunteering to help to carry that filth and sewage of Satan's selfish and nasty stuff to the flaming sewer which burns with brimstone. So, if anyone doesn't find this to be good, then don't be a sewer bucket!!

Not only that but some of the reasons you go to hell just don't seem just. Like finite mistakes for infinite punishment...

Well, I think you can see, then, that "little sins" aren't why people go to hell. But the wrong spirit causing even little sins is not going to Heaven. So, if they keep on in the evil and disobedient and selfish spirit of Satan, they go where he and his nasty spirit are going.

Jesus does say hell is "prepared" > Matthew 25:41. God is smart and has reasons; so He prepares. And "our God is a consuming fire," we have in Hebrews 12:29. God, I consider, is the One who will control hell. But fire can burn a predator while the same fire can be warmly affectionate for those who enjoy one another around a nice campfire. Therefore, our own nature decides how we are effected by fire. Satan was in Heaven itself, but Heaven wasn't good enough for him; so he got thrown out > Luke 10:18 > "like lightning", Jesus says

He was in God's own presence, but it wasn't enough for him. This is a problem of sin, how enough is not enough. In nature, we see how sunlight can burn a worm on the sidewalk, but the same sunshine can be good for you. But we can't benefit from God, as well as we could, if we keep our selfish natures. Our selfish nature makes us so we can be "burnt" about loving and forgiving. So, only God is able to get rid of that wormy stuff of Satan's selfish spirit.

 

[Brokenhill]

^ There's no reason to mock his use of the word "like".

We should all be showing love to each other, regardless of our points in faith/understandings in scripture/knowledge of English grammar/etc.

 

[oi_antz]

^ There's no reason to mock his use of the word "like".

We should all be showing love to each other, regardless of our points in faith/understandings in scripture/knowledge of English grammar/etc.

oi_antz likes this! Dr. Josh was speaking this way because he felt comfortable to be so relaxed. It is something that should be encouraged, not made fun of. Why would someone make fun of it anyway? Isn't that mean? Why would someone want to be mean to Dr. Josh? Come back Dr. Josh, and be yourself! I have missed that friendly happy relaxed inquisitive presence you gave us. Keep thinking about what is really true, and seeking greater understanding of how that should impact what your life might become.