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The plan of creation: Did God create humans to prove a point?

Mark Quayle

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Principalities and powers in the heavenly realms (Eph 3:8-11, Eph 2:6-7, Eph 6:12)?
Agreed, not to mention to the objects of his mercy, (Romans 9), but it seems very curious, and I noticed the same thing in Job —why should God care what Satan thinks?
 
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Clare73

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Agreed, not to mention to the objects of his mercy, (Romans 9), but it seems very curious, and I noticed the same thing in Job —why should God care what Satan thinks?

It's not in response to Satan, Satan was created for the sake of God's plan to show forth to the heavenly realm the glory of his goodness (and wisdom) through the glory of his Son (Eph 3:8-11, Eph 2:6-7, Eph 6:12)
 
Mark Quayle
Now THAT makes sense. And yes, as few seem to realize, Satan is a tool, same way that God used Assyria against Israel (Isaiah 10). And like with Assyria, for the very pride by which God manipulates Satan and the deeds of Satan that God uses for God's purposes, God will punish Satan.

That Satan will be forced to bow the knee delights me. I don't doubt God will destroy ALL negative claims concerning himself.
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YahuahSaves

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If you read my entire post I never denied choice. But there are only 2 choices we're able to make: life (God) or death (satan).

Many people believe God created us for us, but he created everything for himself.

Read the link I posted in the OP on God's omniscience:

God created everything, including the authorities in the unseen world:

God's glory is not just his Love. That's part of his character, yes, but look at the original hebrew word for glory:
 
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YahuahSaves

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Humans were thus made and put in the very best place (this messed up world), so some willing individuals could obtain Godly type Love and thus become like God Himself and dwell happily with God in heaven forever.
Also, read scripture:
 
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YahuahSaves

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YahuahSaves

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Satan had access to heaven …. Until the Cross, at the cross kingship was fully given (restored) to Jesus.
Yes. I wondered because scripture isn't completely clear when satan was banished from entering heaven, because he does so after the fall of Adam and Eve. I think it happened just before or just after Jesus was born.
 
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YahuahSaves

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There are a great number of angels and they have varying degrees of powers. The most powerful of these is Lucifer. [the light bearer]

Lucifer convinced some of the angels that they didn’t need God ….
Interesting reading on how the term "Lucifer" came about here: Lucifer

The old Testament never gave the enemy a name. Just a title.

"We have taken the name of God, YHWH, and we have turned it into a title, “the LORD”. And then we took the title of the Evil One and turned it into a name, “Satan”. This is a monumental mess-up!"

"This is the chapter that the name Lucifer originates from. Helel, or the shining one, was translated in Latin as lucifer. In Roman mythology Lucifer (meaning light-bringer) was the classical name for the planet Venus… the early one that shines in the morning. There is no star (kokav) in the Isaiah passage (although an awful lot of translations use star). The name Lucifer does not show up in the Bible anywhere. “The Shining One” is a title, just like Ha-Satan is a title (“the Adversary”)."

From: Satan: ADVERSARY is not a name
 
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YahuahSaves

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So what GOD was thinking.. wow I can't even grasp. For some reason He never shared it with us...yet
How is it speculation if it's backed up by scripture? If you'd read the entire OP (to the end) you may have understood.




 
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YahuahSaves

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Which sixth grader best represents your view of God?
I'm not even going to bother replying to your analogies because it has nothing to do with my original post (and you would have understood that had you read the OP in its entirety).

But to clarify your other points:
Definitely more than "some". (but, I'm sure you didn't mean to limit God's omniscience)
God knew before he created everything, what was going to happen with ALL of his created beings.
By "some" I was particularly referring to the serpent and Adam and Eve. (Sin and the fall)

Perhaps click the link in the OP that gives an accurate definition of God's omniscience:

God is God, of course. Why would God have to "display his glory"? Isn't he glorious enough as is?
Same with his power and authority. What does he have to prove? And to whom?
Do you read scripture? Then it should be obvious to you, because it says it plainly.


You may be interested to know what the ancient hebrew word for "glory" is, and what it essentially means:

 
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YahuahSaves

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Agreed, not to mention to the objects of his mercy, (Romans 9), but it seems very curious, and I noticed the same thing in Job —why should God care what Satan thinks?
Well think about it. Who was satan originally? What job was he created for? Was he not originally the right hand of God?

Perhaps watch the (short 6 minute) video on the divine council. Its the original hebrew that encompassed divine beings such as the angels.
Note: the "authorities" in the unseen world (See video below)
 
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Der Alte

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In the OT "Satan" is a noun. The first occurrence of "Satan" in the O.T. 1 Chronicles 21:1 it does not have the definite article "Ha." And is translated "Satan."
 
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Mark Quayle

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Perhaps watch the (short 6 minute) video on the divine council. Its the original hebrew that encompassed divine beings such as the angels.
Only God is divinity, in that use of the word. You think he consulted angels for their advice?
 
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YahuahSaves

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In the OT "Satan" is a noun. The first occurrence of "Satan" in the O.T. 1 Chronicles 21:1 it does not have the definite article "Ha." And is translated "Satan."
The term "satan" (without the Ha- at the beginning) was used to describe an enemy in general.

Edit for clarification: YHWH became Israel's "enemy" as we can see in 2 Samuel 24:1
 
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YahuahSaves

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Only God is divinity, in that use of the word. You think he consulted angels for their advice?
It says "divine" as in spiritual beings, such as angels. (Who are not God). The ancient hebrew suggests it. Watch the video (or don't) up to you.
 
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sparow

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Another theory is God the Father wishes to retire and hand over to His Son, over six thousand years His Son creates the kingdom of God, and the New Jerusalem, having a new Temple which becomes the retirement home for the old God.
 
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sparow

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The term "satan" (without the Ha- at the beginning) was used to describe an enemy in general.

Edit for clarification: YHWH became Israel's "enemy" as we can see in 2 Samuel 24:1

I understand the Jewish usage is the title is not exclusive to any individual; it could refer to a spirit, like the spirit of anti-Christ, or the spirit of evil, keeping in mind Satan means adversary and/or destroyer; is usually referred to as "him", Biblical Hebrew having no neutral gender. In Job him speaks.
 
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YahuahSaves

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Yes. Also Ha-satan is mentioned in reference to the devil. "THE adversary", (as in the ultimate) adversary is the serpent from the garden of Eden.
 
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YahuahSaves

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Another theory is God the Father wishes to retire and hand over to His Son, over six thousand years His Son creates the kingdom of God, and the New Jerusalem, having a new Temple which becomes the retirement home for the old God.
Sounds very human...unfortunately, God is a 3-in-1 kinda guy....he can never "step-down" from being God.
 
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Sheila Davis

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All good points.

But what point would God be trying to prove and to whom _ the one we call Satan?

I have always wondered why we are here the Bible says God created us for his pleasure I feel it's more than that.

These are questions I've asked myself
What happened to the 1/3 of angels that was cast down to the Earth with Satan? (They are never talked about but apparently they are on Earth.)
Why did Jesus said hell was created for Satan and the angels? (Yet the spirits in man can be/is destined for hell.)
Why does the Bible say choose this day who you will serve?
Why did God curse the Earth at the fall of flesh man?
Why does the Bible say the Earth is under judgment because the prince of this world is judged? (Satan is judged but none of the other angels are and the human flesh inhabitors of the Earth.)
Why does the bible indicates God knew us before we were born? (The spirits in man were in heaven before.)
Why does Paul describe some as being predestined before the foundations of the Earth? (Already chosen)
Why is the word redeemed used? (Redeemed from the fall of Adam or redeemed from the fall with Satan.)
Why is the devil in his anger and seemingly hatred determined to take as many of the spirits within man with him as he possibly can? (Could it be because he has been judged and condemned but God is showing Mercy and giving the other fallen a chance at redemption.)

Me, I personally think that there is a strong possibility that God created man strictly for the purpose of housing our fallen spirits to be judged. That human life on Earth is our trial. He has told us how to live and who to believe and have faith in - that our choices here determines our fate _ whether we end up with the same fate as the one we were cast down to earth with or redemption from the one who is showing us Mercy.
(This is food for thought!!!)

And I add I have spoken to some who say they were of the Jewish faith and said that Satan works for God and is not evil. (I question that)
Plus the name Satan is derived Satanail written of in The book of Enoch but the book of Enoch is not considered Canon.

 
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