The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

FYI, your same "touchy feely" QM argument applies just as directly to current cosmology theory today. Monetary gain seems to trump empirical physics in many areas of life.

Just sayin....

Yet again. Yawn.

And yet even self professed atheists have such experiences and often times the experiences do not jive with their preconceived religious beliefs prior to the NDE. They often also have a very profound effect on the rest of their lives, so clearly the individual themselves believes that the experience was quite 'real' for them.

Extreme experiences and nearly dying can change your life; who'da thunk it?

Back in the day, lives were changed by 'tuning in, turning on, and dropping out' (dropping LSD, taking magic mushrooms, etc).

Any fule kno an experience can be quite 'real' for someone without corresponding to an externally real event. The variety of hallucinations, illusions, misperceptions, false memories, etc., and the fact that we generate streams of experiences of varying degrees of realism every night, and that we can generate NDE-like experiences 'in the lab', suggest that such reports are of internally generated experiences.

 

[Michael]

Yet again. Yawn.

Extreme experiences and nearly dying can change your life; who'da thunk it?

Back in the day, lives were changed by 'tuning in, turning on, and dropping out' (dropping LSD, taking magic mushrooms, etc).

Any fule kno an experience can be quite 'real' for someone without corresponding to an externally real event. The variety of hallucinations, illusions, misperceptions, false memories, etc., and the fact that we generate streams of experiences of varying degrees of realism every night, and that we can generate NDE-like experiences 'in the lab', suggest that such reports are of internally generated experiences.

The notion of purely "internally" generated experiences goes flying right out the window once you finally realize that you live inside of an electromagnetic universe and your brain is just one EM transmitter/receiver among an infinite number of such energy emissions.

You seem to have a very "non-QM" oriented view of the universe when it comes to sensory experiences.

You also downplay the potential of "correct perception" when it comes to sensory experiences of the individual. The whole concept of "science" is based upon (correct) observation of the collective, as well as the individual.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Anyone else think that New Jerusalem looks like the Borg cube from Star Trek? You know, where they were all of like mind and only wished for others to be assimilated and losing their free will?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The notion of purely "internally" generated experiences goes flying right out the window once you finally realize that you live inside of an electromagnetic universe and your brain is just one EM transmitter/receiver among an infinite number of such energy emissions.

No, it doesn't. The brain is a very poor EM transmitter/receiver - that's why it needs special sensors like eyes and skin to transduce EM radiation, and why telepathy isn't a thing.

You seem to have a very "non-QM" oriented view of the universe when it comes to sensory experiences.

No, I don't. It's all QM.

You also downplay the potential of "correct perception" when it comes to sensory experiences of the individual. The whole concept of "science" is based upon (correct) observation of the collective, as well as the individual.

The scientific method was developed to compensate for unreliability of individual and collective perception.

 

[Michael]

No, it doesn't. The brain is a very poor EM transmitter/receiver - that's why it needs special sensors like eyes and skin to transduce EM radiation, and why telepathy isn't a thing.

Actually we get 'feelings' about other people almost immediately. I've learned to trust those feelings as a valid sensory input to consciousness. We're all electromagnetically interacting on a constant basis, and electromagnetically interacting with an electromagnetic universe. Billion of neutrinos pass through our physical form too on a constant basis. There is no such thing as pure separation from the rest of nature, and we're constantly influenced by the environment in numerous ways.

No, I don't. It's all QM.

Exactly. There's really no such thing as complete separation from others, and there's no clear definitive line between individuals and nature at the level of kinetic energy.

The scientific method was developed to compensate for unreliability of individual and collective perception.

Yet your cell phone is an excellent working example of the fact that humans are able to correctly understand and manipulate nature.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Actually we get 'feelings' about other people almost immediately. I've learned to trust those feelings as a valid sensory input to consciousness.

People get 'feelings' about other people by looking at them or hearing them. Photos, videos, and speech recordings have the same effect.

We're all electromagnetically interacting on a constant basis, and electromagnetically interacting with an electromagnetic universe.

The only direct person-to-person EM interaction is visual (although if you get close enough you might sense their heat through your skin). I've already told you why. The EM field isn't magic.

Billion of neutrinos pass through our physical form too on a constant basis. There is no such thing as pure separation from the rest of nature, and we're constantly influenced by the environment in numerous ways.

Neutrinos are a red-herring; they pass through us because they interact so rarely with other matter that even a light-year of lead will stop only 50%. Sure we're constantly influenced by the environment, but not by EM fields significantly influencing the brain. The physics just doesn't work out. If our brains were that sensitive to EM fields, they'd be scrambled in an MRI scanner.

Exactly. There's really no such thing as complete separation from others, and there's no clear definitive line between individuals and nature at the level of kinetic energy.

Also irrelevant. We only exchange kinetic energy with nature by physical interaction or the molecular kinetic energy of heat transfer (conduction, convection, radiation).

Yet your cell phone is an excellent working example of the fact that humans are able to correctly understand and manipulate nature.

Exactly; principles of operation discovered by dedicated application of the scientific method, and implemented by precision engineering. We can do it if our procedures minimize the influence of, and compensate sufficiently well for, our cognitive biases and unreliability.

 

[Michael]

People get 'feelings' about other people by looking at them or hearing them. Photos, videos, and speech recordings have the same effect.

A lot of times those feelings provide useful input to consciousness too.

The only direct person-to-person EM interaction is visual (although if you get close enough you might sense their heat through your skin). I've already told you why. The EM field isn't magic.

It may not be magic, but the mainstream astronomy community doesn't begin to understand it.

kirlian photography - Google Search

It is however quite subtle and we don't begin to understand it's implications in terms of our interconnection at the level of consciousness.

Neutrinos are a red-herring; they pass through us because they interact so rarely with other matter that even a light-year of lead will stop only 50%. Sure we're constantly influenced by the environment, but not by EM fields significantly influencing the brain. The physics just doesn't work out. If our brains were that sensitive to EM fields, they'd be scrambled in an MRI scanner.

God helmet - Wikipedia

Some folks have claimed to have "spiritual" experiences from such influences.

Also irrelevant. We only exchange kinetic energy with nature by physical interaction or the molecular kinetic energy of heat transfer (conduction, convection, radiation).

Meh. You'll entertain exotic forms of energy in some areas and not others. Whatever the interactions, the EM field is one thing that we all emit.

Exactly; principles of operation discovered by dedicated application of the scientific method, and implemented by precision engineering.

Also known as "empirical physics", hence my preference for empirical physics in general.

We can do it if our procedures minimize the influence of, and compensate sufficiently well for, our cognitive biases and unreliability.

That's fine except when the "scientific method" starts to deviate from "empirical physics", and then all bets are off. Biases become inevitable in such cases.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

A lot of times those feelings provide useful input to consciousness too.

Sure, people can judge with remarkably high success which candidate is most likely to win an election just by looking at pictures of their faces (because voters are most likely to vote for a candidate whose face 'fits'). So what? There's nothing mysterious about it - unless you have something particular in mind?

It may not be magic, but the mainstream astronomy community doesn't begin to understand it.

kirlian photography - Google Search

They certainly don't spend much time on Kirlian photography...

It is however quite subtle and we don't begin to understand it's implications in terms of our interconnection at the level of consciousness.

New-age waffle. Subtle how? what implications? what interconnection? have you plausible evidence for any of that?

God helmet - Wikipedia

Some folks have claimed to have "spiritual" experiences from such influences.

Yup, abnormal temporal lobe activity can cause such effects - temporal lobe epilepsy can produce experiential disturbances up to full-fledged ecstatic (or horrific) spiritual hallucinations (a-la Road to Damascus). Attempts to replicate Persinger's helmet results have failed - unsurprisingly, as the field strength wasn't sufficient to influence membrane depolarization on an exposed brain, let alone through the scalp, but if it could have stimulated the temporal lobe, such results wouldn't be a surprise - other forms of stimulation, including transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) have elicited sensations of unseen 'presence' and such-like. Psychotropic Drugs can have similar effects, ranging from the mildest to the full trip. It's possible Persinger's results were due to subject priming through poor controls and lack of blinding.

Meh. You'll entertain exotic forms of energy in some areas and not others. Whatever the interactions, the EM field is one thing that we all emit.

I don't know what you mean by 'exotic form of energy' (I'm guessing you mean the hypothesised 'dark energy' do you have any other examples?), but EM is not 'exotic', it's one of the most familiar and best understood forms of energy.

 

[Michael]

Sure, people can judge with remarkably high success which candidate is most likely to win an election just by looking at pictures of their faces (because voters are most likely to vote for a candidate whose face 'fits'). So what? There's nothing mysterious about it - unless you have something particular in mind?

Nothing particularly mysterious, it's just that we generate EM fields when we "feel", as well as when we 'think'. We probably even use visual cues to pick up on "feelings".

They certainly don't spend much time on Kirlian photography...

They don't spend time on anything that actually works in the lab, or involves electrical fields.

New-age waffle. Subtle how? what implications? what interconnection? have you plausible evidence for any of that?

I doubt I'd come up with evidence you'd find convincing at the moment. It's demonstratably all one big 'electromagnetic' environment however. Even gravity might eventually be one day traced back to EM fields.

I'd imagine at the level of QM you'd acknowledge the interconnections are quite "real", if subtle.

Yup, abnormal temporal lobe activity can cause such effects - temporal lobe epilepsy can produce experiential disturbances up to full-fledged ecstatic (or horrific) spiritual hallucinations (a-la Road to Damascus). Attempts to replicate Persinger's helmet results have failed - unsurprisingly, as the field strength wasn't sufficient to influence membrane depolarization on an exposed brain, let alone through the scalp, but if it could have stimulated the temporal lobe, such results wouldn't be a surprise - other forms of stimulation, including transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) have elicited sensations of unseen 'presence' and such-like. Psychotropic Drugs can have similar effects, ranging from the mildest to the full trip. It's possible Persinger's results were due to subject priming through poor controls and lack of blinding.

I don't know what you mean by 'exotic form of energy' (I'm guessing you mean the hypothesised 'dark energy' do you have any other examples?), but EM is not 'exotic', it's one of the most familiar and best understood forms of energy.

It may be one of the best understood forms of energy in some areas of science, but that knowledge doesn't translate into being well understood in every area of science. Astronomers for instance may think they understand 'dark energy', but they don't seem to even understand basic EM field theory very well as a whole. There are individual exceptions of course, but as a rule, it's been my experience that astronomers have a very poor grasp of even basic EM field theory, hence their mathematical nonsense about 'magnetic reconnection'.

I kinda doubt that biologists are as out of touch with empirical physics as astronomers, but I'm not sure that they understand all the nuances as it relates to EM field processes inside and outside the brain, and their subtle relationships as it relates to awareness and feelings.

A Total Solar Eclipse Feels Really Really Weird

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Nothing particularly mysterious, it's just that we generate EM fields when we "feel", as well as when we 'think'.

Tiny fields, only just detectable using electrodes on the scalp.

We probably even use visual cues to pick up on "feelings".

Well obviously - that's why emotions are reflected in facial expressions and body language.

I doubt I'd come up with evidence you'd find convincing at the moment.

Me too.

Even gravity might eventually be one day traced back to EM fields.

As stated, this indicates a really surprising ignorance of fundamental physics on your part. Would you like to explain what you mean by it?

I'd imagine at the level of QM you'd acknowledge the interconnections are quite "real", if subtle.

Vague to the point of meaningless. The EM field interacts with other quantum fields in very precisely known ways.

Astronomers for instance may think they understand 'dark energy'..

Who thinks that, for example?

I kinda doubt that biologists are as out of touch with empirical physics as astronomers, but I'm not sure that they understand all the nuances as it relates to EM field processes inside and outside the brain, and their subtle relationships as it relates to awareness and feelings.

The field of neuroscience specialises in that.

A Total Solar Eclipse Feels Really Really Weird

Owls at night can sound really really spooky. So what?

 

[Michael]

Tiny fields, only just detectable using electrodes on the scalp.

And the current hardware "detectors" that we access might in fact be rather primitive compared to "detectors" within us that have been designed by nature. We may all have some "intuitive" ability that comes from reading those "signs", and maybe detecting them directly subconsciously too for all I know.

Well obviously - that's why emotions are reflected in facial expressions and body language.

I suspect that explains most 'intuition' by the way. We just correctly learn to 'read the signs'.

As stated, this indicates a really surprising ignorance of fundamental physics on your part. Would you like to explain what you mean by it?

Well, the "holy grail" of physics is to come up with a "theory of everything" that ties all the known forces of nature together. Although I currently prefer GR theory to describe gravity, QM definitions may replace GR eventually. When that happens, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that gravity is a secondary EM field effect of some sort.

To even see it from that perspective, you'd have to first accept the idea that we live in a quantum electromagnetic field created that is created and sustained by countless electric suns.

Vague to the point of meaningless. The EM field interacts with other quantum fields in very precisely known ways.

I don't think astronomers know EM fields "precisely", or they wouldn't be using 'magnetic reconnection' to try to explain sustained hot plasma events. You're right that some individuals on planet Earth understand the interactions quite well, but astronomers as a whole, not so much.

Who thinks that, for example?

Everyone who claims to know that dark energy even exists. They claim to have 'knowledge' about a purely hypothetical form of energy, starting with the claim to 'know' it exists in the first place. They then claim to be "experts" on some mythical form of energy, including "knowledge" of it's "negative pressure" and all sorts of irrational nonsense.

The field of neuroscience specialises in that.

Indeed. Applied circuit theory is well understood in all branches of physics *except* for astronomy. Astronomers (as a group) couldn't apply circuit theory to events in space if their lives depended on it. I'm sure there are exceptions of course, but I've not met many.

Owls at night can sound really really spooky. So what?

So at the very *least* you'd have to add 'feelings' as a sort of 6th sense, or a sixth input into "awareness/consciousness" which also tends to influence our perception of the universe around us.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And the current hardware "detectors" that we access might in fact be rather primitive compared to "detectors" within us that have been designed by nature.

If you're suggesting some kind of sophisticated EM receiver in the brain, there are no structures that correspond to such a thing, and no evidence of any neural response to free EM fields, even in operating theatres during open-skull brain surgeries. Our urban environments are saturated with EM fields of varying strengths and frequencies that would swamp any such receiver, but in any case (pun) the brain is well-insulated from external EM. The only EM fields directly capable of eliciting neural activity from outside the skull are powerful TMS focused pulsed induction fields (up to 2 tesla, compared with Earth's magnetic field of 25 to 65 microteslas). Even MRI scanners with 0.2 to 1 tesla field strength elicit no direct neural activity.

We may all have some "intuitive" ability that comes from reading those "signs", and maybe detecting them directly subconsciously too for all I know.

Intuitive abilities are subconscious processing. From the outside world, the brain only has the electrochemical pulses transmitted by our various sensory transducers (many more than five). All are processed subconsciously, most never reach consciousness.

When that happens, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that gravity is a secondary EM field effect of some sort.

What makes you think so? The quantum field theory description of gravity is a completely different quantum field. Their excitation particles are quite different; the graviton is a spin-2 tensor boson, whereas the photon is a spin-1 vector boson.

To even see it from that perspective, you'd have to first accept the idea that we live in a quantum electromagnetic field created that is created and sustained by countless electric suns.

We live in multiple quantum fields, of which the electromagnetic field is only one - there's a quantum field for every particle, and they permeate all space; but this doesn't mean we're all interconnected in some meaningful way. If you're going to speculate about quantum fields, you should learn at least something about quantum field theory, otherwise you're just fantasizing.

Everyone who claims to know that dark energy even exists. They claim to have 'knowledge' about a purely hypothetical form of energy, starting with the claim to 'know' it exists in the first place. They then claim to be "experts" on some mythical form of energy, including "knowledge" of it's "negative pressure" and all sorts of irrational nonsense.

Who, for example? Name someone in the field who has made such a claim. I think you're misunderstanding descriptions of the dark energy hypothesis.

So at the very *least* you'd have to add 'feelings' as a sort of 6th sense, or a sixth input into "awareness/consciousness" which also tends to influence our perception of the universe around us.

We have at least 22 identifiable senses, and, as far as I can tell, your usage of 'feelings' just refers to our emotional responses to what those senses tell us, triggered by the sympathetic nervous system, and of which we may become consciously aware (we're often not consciously aware of our responses, although they can be seen be others).

 

[Michael]

If you're suggesting some kind of sophisticated EM receiver in the brain, there are no structures that correspond to such a thing, and no evidence of any neural response to free EM fields, even in operating theatres during open-skull brain surgeries. Our urban environments are saturated with EM fields of varying strengths and frequencies that would swamp any such receiver, but in any case (pun) the brain is well-insulated from external EM. The only EM fields directly capable of eliciting neural activity from outside the skull are powerful TMS focused pulsed induction fields (up to 2 tesla, compared with Earth's magnetic field of 25 to 65 microteslas). Even MRI scanners with 0.2 to 1 tesla field strength elicit no direct neural activity.

And yet....

There is evidence that that saturation process does have an influence at some level.

How Solar Flares Affect Human Health - Our Mind And Body | MessageToEagle.com

It may be a subtle effect that doesn't elicit neutral activity directly, but perhaps indirectly.

Intuitive abilities are subconscious processing. From the outside world, the brain only has the electrochemical pulses transmitted by our various sensory transducers (many more than five). All are processed subconsciously, most never reach consciousness.

The effect, whatever it might be is liable to occur at the subconscious level.

What makes you think so? The quantum field theory description of gravity is a completely different quantum field. Their excitation particles are quite different; the graviton is a spin-2 tensor boson, whereas the photon is a spin-1 vector boson.

I said it wouldn't surprise me, I didn't say I embraced any such theory to date. I'm quite happy with GR theory to describe gravity without all the metaphysical shenanigans. I don't really embrace a current QM definition of gravity yet either, due a lack of evidence for a graviton.

We live in multiple quantum fields, of which the electromagnetic field is only one - there's a quantum field for every particle, and they permeate all space; but this doesn't mean we're all interconnected in some meaningful way. If you're going to speculate about quantum fields, you should learn at least something about quantum field theory, otherwise you're just fantasizing.

It seems to me that we're still learning new stuff all the time:

https://phys.org/news/2017-06-atomic-mass-photon-momentum-paradox.html

Who, for example? Name someone in the field who has made such a claim. I think you're misunderstanding descriptions of the dark energy hypothesis.

Got to 2:45. Astronomer's don't "know" that space even 'expands' at all, let alone that space is 'accelerating', nor "know" that dark energy exists. They *assume* that photons do not lose momentum to the medium, but they don't "know" that's true either.

That never stops them from trying to claim they have "multiple lines of evidence' and all sorts of pure nonsense.

We have at least 22 identifiable senses, and, as far as I can tell, your usage of 'feelings' just refers to our emotional responses to what those senses tell us, triggered by the sympathetic nervous system, and of which we may become consciously aware (we're often not consciously aware of our responses, although they can be seen be others).

I'd be inclined to believe that whatever "sense" we might have related to external EM fields is likely to occur at the subconscious level.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There is evidence that that saturation process does have an influence at some level.

How Solar Flares Affect Human Health - Our Mind And Body | MessageToEagle.com

It may be a subtle effect that doesn't elicit neutral activity directly, but perhaps indirectly.

Yes, I've seen several papers that suggest various physiological correlations with geomagnetism and/or Schumann Resonances. The problem is that the influencing factors and the effects measured are so varied (Dr Cherry's paper also suggests diurnal variation and modulation by tropical storms) that it's hard to distinguish genuine from spurious correlations, let alone causation. One paper saw significant correlations between heart rate variability and solar wind speed, Kp, Ap, solar radio flux, cosmic ray counts, Schumann resonance power, and the total variations in the geomagnetic field...

The effect, whatever it might be is liable to occur at the subconscious level.

If there was an effect, that we weren't conscious of, that would follow. But if you don't know what an effect might be, or even if there is one, it seems to me you're just whistling Dixie.

I said it wouldn't surprise me, I didn't say I embraced any such theory to date.

So why mention it specifically?

It seems to me that we're still learning new stuff all the time...

Yes we are, and so far it is all consistent with quantum field theory and the quantum formalism.

Got to 2:45. Astronomer's don't "know" that space even 'expands' at all, let alone that space is 'accelerating', nor "know" that dark energy exists. They *assume* that photons do not lose momentum to the medium, but they don't "know" that's true either.

That never stops them from trying to claim they have "multiple lines of evidence' and all sorts of pure nonsense.

Without going into the philosophy of scientific knowledge (here's a course that's amazing value at present: What Scientists Know and How They Know It - I strongly recommend it, the audio version is quite sufficient), what it means is that given an effective theory, the observation of new phenomena not already explained by that theory requires explanation. You know that you have a phenomenon to explain because you have observed it. Dark Energy is the label for such a phenomenon. 'Multiple lines of evidence' means several sets of observations of independent (unrelated) phenomena that are consistent with and predicted by the explanation in question.

I'd be inclined to believe that whatever "sense" we might have related to external EM fields is likely to occur at the subconscious level.

What you'd be inclined to believe is irrelevant unless you have plausible evidence of something requiring novel explanation. So far, what you've described is consistent with known senses and physiology.

 

[DennisTate]

The notion of purely "internally" generated experiences goes flying right out the window once you finally realize that you live inside of an electromagnetic universe and your brain is just one EM transmitter/receiver among an infinite number of such energy emissions.

You seem to have a very "non-QM" oriented view of the universe when it comes to sensory experiences.

You also downplay the potential of "correct perception" when it comes to sensory experiences of the individual. The whole concept of "science" is based upon (correct) observation of the collective, as well as the individual.

Well said.... and the fact that NDE like experiences can be duplicated under laboratory conditions could indicate their connection with our soul's ability to go into higher and higher and higher dimensions of space - time.

Dr. George Ritchie was shown five higher invisible dimensions. Here is his description of the highest one.

The City of Light and the Near-Death Experience

George Ritchie saw an endless, brilliant, city of light and love:

"And then I saw, infinitely far off, far too distant to be visible with any kind of sight I knew of- a city. A glowing, seemingly endless city, bright enough to be seen over all the unimaginable distance between. The brightness seemed to shine from the very walls and streets of this place, and from beings which I could now discern moving about within it. In fact, the city and everything in it seemed to be made of light, even as the figure at my side was made of light.

"At this time I had not yet read the Book of Revelation. I could only gape in awe at this faraway spectacle, wondering how bright each building, each inhabitant, must be to be seen over so many light-years of distance. Could these radiant beings, I wondered, amazed, be those who had indeed kept Jesus the focus of their lives? Was I seeing at last ones who had looked for him in everything? Looked so well and so closely that they had been changed into his very likeness? Even as I asked the question, two of the bright figures seemed to detach themselves from the city and start toward us, hurling themselves across that infinity with the speed of light.



"Now this was surprising because this was the first realm in which the inhabitants could see the Christ and me. Even more amazing, they exuded light almost as brilliant as the Christmas the two beings approached us, I could also feel the love flowing from them toward us. The complete joy they showed at seeing the Christ was unmistakable.

"Seeing these beings and feeling the joy, peace and happiness which swelled up from them made me feel that here was the place of all places, the top realm of all realms. The beings who inhabited it were full of love. This, I was and am convinced, is heaven. As marvelous as I thought the previous realm was, after glimpsing this new realm we were seeing, I began to understand for the first time what Paul was saying in 1 Corinthians 13 when he wrote: "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."

"I do not infer that the wonderful souls of the fourth realm did not have love because they did but not to the degree that the souls of this realm had reached.

"But as fast as they came toward us, we drew away. Desperately I cried out to him not to leave me, to make me ready for that shining city, not to abandon me in this dark and narrow place." (Dr. George Ritchie)

......

The contrast between that heaven with the earthbound realm is huge:

b. His Guided Tour of the Earthbound Realm with Jesus

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's tour of the Earthbound Realm: Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.



Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.



Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."



They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well said.... and the fact that NDE like experiences can be duplicated under laboratory conditions could indicate their connection with our soul's ability to go into higher and higher and higher dimensions of space - time.

Dr. George Ritchie was shown five higher invisible dimensions. Here is his description of the highest one.

The City of Light and the Near-Death Experience



......

The contrast between that heaven with the earthbound realm is huge:

Flights of fantasy

 

[Michael]

Yes, I've seen several papers that suggest various physiological correlations with geomagnetism and/or Schumann Resonances. The problem is that the influencing factors and the effects measured are so varied (Dr Cherry's paper also suggests diurnal variation and modulation by tropical storms) that it's hard to distinguish genuine from spurious correlations, let alone causation. One paper saw significant correlations between heart rate variability and solar wind speed, Kp, Ap, solar radio flux, cosmic ray counts, Schumann resonance power, and the total variations in the geomagnetic field...

Sorry for the delayed response. I've been preoccupied a bit at work.

Suffice to say that the jury is still out on the effect of our own EM environment and how it might affect the human mind. You're "whistling Dixie" commentary is amusing. I'm simply noting that the jury is still out.

I don't think we're going to get much further on this topic because:

You know that you have a phenomenon to explain because you have observed it. Dark Energy is the label for such a phenomenon. 'Multiple lines of evidence' means several sets of observations of independent (unrelated) phenomena that are consistent with and predicted by the explanation in question.

There are no "multiple lines" of evidence of "dark energy". There was one SN1A study that suggested it, but more recent studies, with larger data sets put the statistical likelihood at only about 3 sigma. It's not even a "discovery' in a technical sense.

You can't even name so much as a single source of dark energy, but you expect me to demonstrate a mind/larger EM field link in a controlled manner?

The thing that kills me is that even *tiny* bit of inelastic scattering does away with the need for "dark energy" even it if cannot account for 'space expansion" outright.

Suffice to say you have much higher standard of evidence as it relates to mind/EM field interactions than you do for 'dark energy'.

What "multiple" lines of evidence are you suggesting even support it?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Sorry for the delayed response. I've been preoccupied a bit at work.

The real world does tend to interfere...

There are no "multiple lines" of evidence of "dark energy".

See Cosmological Constraints on Dark Energy, The Expansion of the Universe is Still Accelerating, and Is the Expansion Accelerating? All Signs point to Yes.

You can't even name so much as a single source of dark energy...

Nobody yet knows what is causing it - it could be vacuum energy (quantum effects), an indication that gravitational theory needs modifying, or that General Relativity needs revising, or something else; it is unexplained. You appear chronically unable to distinguish between the label for an observational phenomenon and possible explanations for it (hypotheses).

... but you expect me to demonstrate a mind/larger EM field link in a controlled manner?

I don't expect you to demonstrate anything.

What "multiple" lines of evidence are you suggesting even support it?

See above, particularly the first link, for a partial list.

 

[Michael]

See Cosmological Constraints on Dark Energy, The Expansion of the Universe is Still Accelerating, and Is the Expansion Accelerating? All Signs point to Yes.

Er, every single one of those "signs" are based upon the *standard model assumptions*, all of which were "postdicted" to fit the introduction of "dark energy" in 1998. Every one of those so called lines of evidence is based on the assumption that no amount of cosmological redshift is scattering related. Those aren't independent lines of evidence, that's the same dogma being "modified" at will to fit an assumption based dogma package.

Nobody yet knows what is causing it - it could be vacuum energy (quantum effects), an indication that gravitational theory needs modifying, or that General Relativity needs revising, or something else; it is unexplained. You appear chronically unable to distinguish between the label for an observational phenomenon and possible explanations for it (hypotheses).

You have that backwards. I've simply provided you with an alternative explanation of the same photon redshift observation. All you're doing is *assuming* that photon never lose momentum to the medium of space, whereas we *know* they lose momentum to plasma and dust in the lab. Your assumptions don't even jive with experimental results.

I don't expect you to demonstrate anything.

See above, particularly the first link, for a partial list.

It's all based upon "assuming" that photons do not lose momentum to the medium, even they we *know* they lose momentum to the plasma medium in the lab. We even know it can depend on the amount of free electrons present.

You're not really providing separate lines of "evidence", rather they all all based upon the same undemonstrated 'dogma'.

 

[DennisTate]

Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?


Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?

....
Very interesting indeed!

I am of the belief that G-d..... lives in all seven billion humans who walk the earth......
including one billion or more Roman Catholics and....... I have to admit that all seven
billion of us have been given more authority and power to affect how world events turn out
than I used to imagine was possible.

Since two or three Christians being in agreement on something that they ask for has
power..... then over one billion Roman Catholics agreeing that your Pope has great power........

.... actually has considerable validity..... .which is witnessed by an Ecuadorian Charismatic Catholic
or Pentecostal woman named Angelica Zambrano if I remember correctly.

Ms. Zambrano, in an audio message that I heard many years ago stated that she had had
either a near death experience...... or something like it....... and she had been shown many things.... .one of which was Pope John Paul II wrestling with a serpent in what many Catholics might wonder if it was part of Purgatory??????

My theory is that although Pope John Paul II was amazing...... .He assisted President Ronald Reagan to bring down the Iron Curtain....... He travelled and worked tirelessly on many issues......... After he died..... he did the usual Life Review with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.... and he regretted not doing even more!

I believe that his wrestling with a serpent..... means a lot of things... .but a serpent is a symbol of wisdom...... and for all I know this could have been the very same serpent who attempted to attack his great, great, great.... grandmother Eve.... in The Book of Adam and Eve that was preserved into our time period only in Arabic....... because in our zeal...... we Christians had burned every other copy of that book in all other languages.

Anyway..... in a sense that serpent personifies some aspects of wisdom.....
that can manifest as guilt... and by tackling that serpent......
I suspect that Pope John Paul II after his death was wrestling with his desire to have
accomplished even more for humanity............
and.....

I believe that you and I and all seven billion of us are benefiting as Pope John Paul II wrestles with Wisdom in the form of the serpent....... and a new time line is being wrestled into existence.... that I believe is better..... vastly better than any previous time line.........