The Persuasiveness of the Christian Community

[Tree of Life]

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 - See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today?

Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate about the righteousness of God's Law. Here's what I want to talk about:

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive. You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

 

[bhsmte]

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 - See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today?

Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate about the righteousness of God's Law. Here's what I want to talk about:

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive. You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

I was a Christian for 40 years and attended many different churches.

As I learned more about the claims of Christianity by studying the bible, observing reality and observing both Christian's and the churches behavior, I found quite a bit of hypocrisy involved in that behavior.

In general, my acquired knowledge couldn't allow me to reconcile the Christian story with reality any longer and to continue believing it, would have involved fooling myself, which I could not do.

In general, there are some very good Christian people and some who are far from it. Same can be said for non-believers. Bottom line, whatever tools you can use to become a better person, are the right ingredients for that particular person.

 

[Davian]

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 - See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today?

Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate about the righteousness of God's Law. Here's what I want to talk about:

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive.

Of course. A religion, as a meme, requires that it have an "infectious" nature to it, or it will fade into the background, and into the past.

You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

Unpersuasive. I would attend church, with my wife and her family, take communion, sing along with the hymns, etc.

It felt no more convincing than if you took me to Hawaii, stuck a grass skirt on me, and declared me a native.

I supported and participated in each of our child's baptisms, but saw them as nothing more than a cultural anachronism. The procedure (declaring whom would look after our child in the event of my wife and I being unable to) really only needed a piece of paper and a notary.

 

[True Scotsman]

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 - See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today?

Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate about the righteousness of God's Law. Here's what I want to talk about:

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive. You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

I personally have found it to be unpersuasive.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive. You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

Nope.
There are some good things about the communal lives of Christians, but nothing that makes the theology, the supernatural claims, the scriptures, etc., seem any more likely to be true. The positive points can be found both in any other religion or in secular communities.

 

[Tree of Life]

Nope.
There are some good things about the communal lives of Christians, but nothing that makes the theology, the supernatural claims, the scriptures, etc., seem any more likely to be true. The positive points can be found both in any other religion or in secular communities.

What are some of the good things that you perceive in the communal life of the church?

 

[Tree of Life]

I personally have found it to be unpersuasive.

Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Tree of Life]

Unpersuasive. I would attend church, with my wife and her family, take communion, sing along with the hymns, etc.

It felt no more convincing than if you took me to Hawaii, stuck a grass skirt on me, and declared me a native.

I supported and participated in each of our child's baptisms, but saw them as nothing more than a cultural anachronism. The procedure (declaring whom would look after our child in the event of my wife and I being unable to) really only needed a piece of paper and a notary.

The rituals may not be persuasive. What I'm getting at is the communal life - how Christians live together and treat one another Monday through Saturday. Have you found that to be unpersuasive as well?

 

[Davian]

The rituals may not be persuasive. What I'm getting at is the communal life - how Christians live together and treat one another Monday through Saturday. Have you found that to be unpersuasive as well?

Persuasive of what? That gods are anything more that characters in books? No.

 

[Tree of Life]

Persuasive of what? That gods are anything more that characters in books? No.

Generally persuasive. Something like: "Wow. I'm really drawn to this people. What makes them tick?" Or: "Hmmm. Maybe there is something to this Christianity thing." It needn't immediately be about the content of our beliefs.

 

[bhsmte]

Generally persuasive. Something like: "Wow. I'm really drawn to this people. What makes them tick?" Or: "Hmmm. Maybe there is something to this Christianity thing." It needn't immediately be about the content of our beliefs.

I have been around plenty of Christians during my life. To me, nothing draws me to them as exceptional people to be around, where I must seek them out.

Some are good people, some are not, just like any other group of people.

 

[True Scotsman]

Would you care to elaborate?

I didn't see that it made the people any better than other people who I knew that were not religious.

 

[Davian]

Generally persuasive. Something like: "Wow. I'm really drawn to this people. What makes them tick?" Or: "Hmmm. Maybe there is something to this Christianity thing." It needn't immediately be about the content of our beliefs.

Indeed, I do think there is something significant to religion.

As I said to PsychoSarah a ways back, my hypothesis is that with the emergence of self-awareness, an evolutionary trait selected for because of its benefit to survival over the less-aware competition, what followed was existential angst, for which our ancestors, ever the inventive type, created memes to address the resultant fears. That evolved into religion.

It is normal, particularly when we are young, to believe on faith. Children that failed to quickly heed their elders stories about the dangers of a rather hostile world did not get the chance to be our ancestors. We are descendants of storytellers, and story believers. (Successful) religions are tailor-fitted to fit our story telling nature.

Evolutionary origin of religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christianity is just one of those religions that fits well into its evolutionary niche.

Is any of this persuasive for the claims that gods are more than characters in books? No.

 

[Paradoxum]

I was happy with my church community when I was Christian. Perhaps some Christian communities do tend to be more caring than the average gathering of people. It's quite hard to judge that though.

I don't find that persuasive of there being a God though. Some Christians are more caring because the NT emphasises love, and things like that. If another group had a similar emphasise, they would be similar.

Also, as much as I liked my old church community, they were also conservative and anti-gay (though not explicitly so). That pushes me away as much as kindness might draw me.

But I'd like to join a humanist community, and that's probably because of my past good experiences at church.

 

[jacknife]

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 - See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today?

Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate about the righteousness of God's Law. Here's what I want to talk about:

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive. You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

i don't find it any more persuasive then any other religious group i've encountered. and though i am athiest i still hang out with the church community i grew up with. it's not like liking the community will make one a theist all of a sudden.

 

[Colter]

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 - See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today?

Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate about the righteousness of God's Law. Here's what I want to talk about:

The Christian community is supposed to be persuasive. You may not believe what we believe. Our arguments may not persuade you. But it's supposed to be that our communal life is so impressive and glorious that you are drawn toward our message.

Have you experienced the life of the church to be persuasive or unpersuasive? Explain.

As a disciple of Jesus I find the Christian message a convoluted mess that began to change the day he Jesus left. The original gospel of the kingdom was replaced with a Paganized version ABOUT the cross. Failing to live up to the original kingdom ideal embodied in the kingdom teachings the institutionalized church became a replacement.

 

[Tree of Life]

As a disciple of Jesus I find the Christian message a convoluted mess that began to change the day he Jesus left. The original gospel of the kingdom was replaced with a Paganized version ABOUT the cross. Failing to live up to the original kingdom ideal embodied in the kingdom teachings the institutionalized church became a replacement.

How do you know about the original gospel of the kingdom?

 

[Colter]

How do you know about the original gospel of the kingdom?

2 ways, the first clue is that 3 years prior to the cross Jesus wasn't teaching "Christ and him crucified" which is the central focus of Christianity.

The other way is the Urantia revelation of 1955 that has the entire life and teachings of Jesus as reported by permission by celestial beings who were on the earth when Jesus was here.

 

[Tree of Life]

2 ways, the first clue is that 3 years prior to the cross Jesus wasn't teaching "Christ and him crucified" which is the central focus of Christianity.

Jesus spoke about his crucifixion a great deal. The Old Testament does as well.

The other way is the Urantia revelation of 1955 that has the entire life and teachings of Jesus as reported by permission by celestial beings who were on the earth when Jesus was here.

This is straight cray-cray.

 

[Davian]

Jesus spoke about his crucifixion a great deal. The Old Testament does as well.



This is straight cray-cray.

Seriously, what makes his beliefs crazier than yours?