The Passover.

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Passover.Exodus Ch.12 As I see this God is being accused of murdering innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this.Can we discuss?

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When God takes a life it is not murder, God is the giver of life, it is his life to take or spare. All life belong to God.

Kenneth Watwood said:

I believe that God is a God of love and not the barbaric creature described in the O.T.

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This is an idol of your own creation, not the one True God.

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Bible was written by the ancient Israelites who also claimed that they were inspired by God.They would wouldn't they.

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Christians believe in the Bible, non Christians do not so what is your point?

Kenneth Watwood said:

I am a new member and I am not sure whether I am posting correctly.Leviticus Ch.25.Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you.
I do not believe that God has ever been involved in slavery.

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You're probably fine. Have you received any formal theological instruction?

Kenneth Watwood said:

Much of the Bible can't be believed It insults God numerous times,which I call blasphemous.

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The Bible is not the one who is insulting God, and and who is blasphemous.

Kenneth Watwood said:

I have a few more questions for tomorrow then I will post my biggest problem,I hope that you will be able to help me with that.

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Catch me up okay?

Kenneth Watwood said:

Justice and mercy are for all times and God has always been God.To me this indicates that the Bible needs to be rewritten with all of the insults to God removed.

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While we're at it, what about if we omit the holocaust from our history books?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

There were no innocent children .
YHWH does whatever He Pleases. (always )
He is Perfect in Righteousness, all His Ways are Judgment, with no iniquity.

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How do we know?

christopher mccarthy said:

The above poster is absolutely correct Sir. The are no innocent people, children or otherwise. UGH, that would include you and I also. That is why we need a Savior. Did you ever tenderize a piece of meat? Pound it into submission. ??...........God sent 6 plagues before that one to try to tenderize the heart of the Egyptian Pharaoh to release his people. People either do the Will of God, or they don't. The ones that do are Blessed. The ones that don't pay a price. It's really not that deep

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God hardened Pharaoh's heart though.

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Passover.Exodus Ch.12 As I see this God is being accused of murdering innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this.Can we discuss?

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This is a problem with understanding God as a person. The logical extension of personhood is that God is just your average Tom, Dick or Harry, "just a slob like one of us, a stranger on the bus, trying to make his way home", sort of regular guy.
Now if Tom Dick and Harry were drinking with us one Saturday, and playing poker and darts, and this trinity of good ole boys came up with the idea of how cool it would be to zap out all of Egypt's first born, then the logical extension would indeed work. this defines murder.

But if God was not a person, but a force of nature, like a tornado, then it would be absurd to accuse God of murder, wouldn't it? Tornadoes don't murder. They rain and blow on the rich and poor, the good and bad, randomly.
Egyptians gods were forces of nature like that. Morals did not play a role in Egyptian religion. You say the incantation right, dance the right steps, and the rain god is tickled pink and rains on you. Too much rain? Do you magic spell to please the sun god, and so on and so on.

But Moses introduces Pharoah to his personal God, who expects good behavior. That changes everything. Neertheless, God is still the creator of tornadoes and cliffs, and the brute force of nature and space and time which can have very, very deadly effects.
That is just not something that Tom or Dick or Harry or Nancy or Harriet are capable of. The Alpha and Omega is anything but an ordinary Joe. He is intimately aware of all possible outcomes of all possible combinations and permutations of events. He is not only aware of things that we do not know, but of things that it is humanly impossible for us to ever know.

If you believe in God that is just who God is. The question then becomes, do you trust that God is good, and that whatever course he takes is the most auspicious and generous and loving and benevolent action that is possible in a world in which all the permutations and combinations of any event are known with certainty that only God can muster?
Do you trust in God? If you do, then trust that God is not a murderer. The terribleness of God is real, and as horrible as a child getting burned to death by a forest fire, but if a Christian trusts in the goodness of God, then that same Christian trusts that God is not a child murderer.

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Passover.Exodus Ch.12 As I see this God is being accused of murdering innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this.Can we discuss?

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The idiocy on this thread is ridiculous...remember that God said to do unto others as we would have them do unto us: therefore since the Egyptians drowned and killed many of the male Israelites: God killed their men and drowned the Egyptians in the water.

And when God drowned the whole world during the time of Noah there were many innocent children as well weren't there? If anything we should see this as an act of God's mercy by making sure that those children did not grow to be like their parents or elders: God after all has children guarding the entrance to the garden of Eden and covering the Ark of the Covenant (i.e. cherubim).

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Passover.Exodus Ch.12 As I see this God is being accused of murdering innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this.Can we discuss?

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god is a lie, we all die, there is no heaven, we are going to hell, we should just kill ourselves [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Passover.Exodus Ch.12 As I see this God is being accused of murdering innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this.Can we discuss?

Click to expand...

I have only read the first few responses to the OP. If I cover ground already covered, forgive me.

How can God ever be accused of murder? He's God. He is the Giver and Sustainer of all life and has, as a consequence, a unique prerogative also to take that life when He sees fit. When He does, it is not murder (that's solely a human thing), it is God exercising His divine right.

Kenneth Watwood said:

I believe that God is a God of love and not the barbaric creature described in the O.T.

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Why do you believe this? What is the basis for your belief? The Bible? If so, the Bible that tells you "God is love" is the same Bible that also says God took the life of every firstborn in Egypt. On what basis do you accept the one account of God and not the other? Personal preference? If so, are you not simply making God in your own image?

aiki said:

I have only read the first few responses to the OP. If I cover ground already covered, forgive me.

How can God ever be accused of murder? He's God. He is the Giver and Sustainer of all life and has, as a consequence, a unique prerogative also take that life when He sees fit. When He does, it is not murder (that's solely a human thing), it is God exercising His divine right.



Why do you believe this? What is the basis for your belief? The Bible? If so, the Bible that tells you "God is love" is the same Bible that also says God took the life of every firstborn in Egypt. On what basis do you accept the one account of God and not the other? Personal preference? If so, are you not simply making God in your own image?

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God loved Jacob and hated Esau because Esau was of the natural, Jacob in the line of the spiritual. Not because of Jacob's deceptive ways but because the elder was to serve the younger in biblical fashion. The first last and the last first.
As Hebrews 12:14-29 says of Esau he sold his birthright for instant gratification. Principals are God's forte and we may never know His reasonings but He was against Molech so we can be assured that His children going thru the fire could only be in the spiritual sense.
Anything to do with Molech involves diseased emotions which is associated with the flesh, and the annihilation of another.

Lust (Molech) (Emotions) (Flesh)
1)Superficial Commitment

Ezekiel 33:31-32
31 My people come to you, as they usually do, and sit before you to listen to your words, but they do not put them into practice. With their mouths they express devotion, but their hearts are greedy for unjust gain.
32 Indeed, to them you are nothing more than one who sings love songs with a beautiful voice and plays an instrument well, for they hear your words but do not put them into practice.

Cure= Faith in Action

~Cassia~ said:

God loved Jacob and hated Esau because Esau was of the natural, Jacob in the line of the spiritual. Not because of Jacob's deceptive ways but because the elder was to serve the younger in biblical fashion. The first last and the last first.
As Hebrews 12:14-29 says of Esau he sold his birthright for instant gratification. Principals are God's forte and we many never know His reasonings but He was against Molech so we can be assured that His children going thru the fire could in be in the spiritual sense.
Anything to do with Molech involves diseased emotions which is associated with the flesh, and the annihilation of another.

Lust (Molech) (Emotions) (Flesh)
1)Superficial Commitment

Ezekiel 33:31-32
31 My people come to you, as they usually do, and sit before you to listen to your words, but they do not put them into practice. With their mouths they express devotion, but their hearts are greedy for unjust gain.
32 Indeed, to them you are nothing more than one who sings love songs with a beautiful voice and plays an instrument well, for they hear your words but do not put them into practice.

Cure= Faith in Action

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Well, that was random...

aiki said:

Well, that was random...

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Thank you ... random trivia for the day

I see...

Kenneth Watwood said:

They didn't produce Jesus.

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Explain please ?

tooldtocare said:

“They” also told the Roman’s to crucify Jesus.

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Yes but he had to show up to be spiritual saviour of the world.
His ministry changed the world and has influenced the whole of the church age.
Imagine if he could of lived longer what would of happened