The origins of atheism

As I was saying · Oct 1, 2015

Cosmology is not a science

“‘Cosmology may look like a science, but it isn’t a science,’ says James Gunn of Princeton University, co-founder of the Sloan survey. ‘A basic tenet of science is that you can do repeatable experiments, and you can’t do that in cosmology.’”

Cho, Adrian, A singular conundrum: How odd is our universe? Science 317:1848–1850, 2007.

Cearbhall · Oct 1, 2015

As I was saying said:
Spontaneous origin of life “a matter of faith”

“The belief that life on earth arose spontaneously from non-living matter, is simply a matter of faith in strict reductionism and is based entirely on ideology.”

Hubert P. Yockey, 1992 (a non-creationist). Information Theory and Molecular Biology, Cambridge University Press, UK, p. 284.

"Faith" is not the word that I would use, but I understand why he chose it. I agree that abiogenesis is not quite tight enough to accept in the way that evolution is.

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

Colter said:
You are here on the forum promoting unbelief. That is basic.

You're here promoting the UB.

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

Colter said:
The doctrine that the universe is self existent, not a creation of God. The Atheist belief in a godless universe and their promotion of godless ideals constitutes their doctrine of doubt.

That's not a doctrine. Atheism is the outcome of my assessment of religious claims, not a doctrine I must unquestioningly uphold.

Cearbhall · Oct 1, 2015

As I was saying said:
Bernard Wood: Human evolution icon illusion

“There is a popular image of human evolution that you’ll find all over the place … On the left of the picture there’s an ape … On the right, a man … Between the two is a succession of figures that become ever more like humans … Our progress from ape to human looks so smooth, so tidy. It’s such a beguiling image that even the experts are loath to let it go. But it is an illusion.”

Of course it is. This is important for children (and uneducated adults) to understand. The idea of a linear progression is an extreme oversimplification.

Could you perhaps provide some commentary so we understand what arguments you're trying to make with these quotes?

Davian · Oct 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
I wouldn't consider online forums a close up look.

I dunno. a.p. has shown me several places where his theology falls down and can't get up. And yourself, your evasion does speak of things you have yet to resolve.

I think what he meant was a more personal (you know in person) conversation with true Christians. When people talk in person, it's much more personal and memorable and that's by design.

lol. I don't think what you post here would really benefit from being done in person.

Honestly, I don't remember 3/4ths of the things you say on here.

Perhaps you should see a doctor about that.

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

Colter said:
As I said, if there is a God in the Humanist worldview, the humanist doctrine just ignores him. Humanist operate as if there is no God because basically humanist think it's not rational.

You're on the right track, in the sense that most people who identify as humanist are not convinced that there is a god.

Cearbhall · Oct 1, 2015

As I was saying said:
Cosmology is not a science

“‘Cosmology may look like a science, but it isn’t a science,’ says James Gunn of Princeton University, co-founder of the Sloan survey. ‘A basic tenet of science is that you can do repeatable experiments, and you can’t do that in cosmology.’”

Cho, Adrian, A singular conundrum: How odd is our universe? Science 317:1848–1850, 2007.

That's a fair assessment, though I'm not sure you're interpreting these quotes correctly. Could you lay out the arguments that you believe they support?

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
Assertions is all I expect from you. Never offering explanation behind your assertions.

Save this post for the irony value.

Ana the Ist · Oct 1, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Every single one of them believe IN THE BEGINNING, GOD.

Buddhism.

Ever hear of it?

Ana the Ist · Oct 1, 2015

As I was saying said:
More silly and cynical comment.

It's the truth! I told you I love the truth!

If you don't believe me...just look up "strawman fallacy". You've heard of Google, haven't you?

Davian · Oct 1, 2015

As I was saying said:
Give us something tangible to discuss other than God does not exist

That is not my position.

and we might have something to say that is worth hearing. It is difficult to make intelligent conversation when the other person does nothing more than make cynical comments and off the cuff retorts that are meaningless.

There is not much more to do in response to untestable, unfalsifiable religious assertions than offer a sceptical response.

As a retired teacher, I know that the language you use with primary kids is different to the language you use with VCE students. On here when I am talking to atheists I feel that I have to use primary school language as their ability to comprehend and their ability to articulate rational thought is just not there.

Nicely veiled insult. Do you find that insults add weight to your assertions?

Personally I would much rather you would go away so that I can have a sensible and rational discussion with fellow believers who are not full of cynicism and sarcasm but that is not in my hands so I have to bear my cross accordingly.

Do note that this forum's statement of purpose specifically states that it is not intended for general apologetics of Christianity, i.e., the defense of the Christian faith against arguments, objections or attacks from non-Christians. Nor is this forum intended as a means for Christian evangelism (persuasion) of unbelievers.

Perhaps one of the more... insulated forums would be more to your liking?

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

anonymous person said:
Standing outside and looking through a dim and stained glass in on Christianity is not the best place to be if one wants to see it for what it is.

Would you buy a Rolex watch for a loved one after only having seen it through such a glass window?

No.

You would go in and look at it close up and for yourself, without the obstruction of the dim and stained glass.

Loudmouth was in the store. He saw that, up close, it wasn't a Rolex. It wasn't even a watch.

Davian · Oct 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
Assertions is all I expect from you. Never offering explanation behind your assertions.

Cearbhall · Oct 1, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
It's the truth! I told you I love the truth!

If you don't believe me...just look up "strawman fallacy". You've heard of Google, haven't you?

Hopefully. Then he can look up "soft atheist" and finally actually address the post of mine to which he responded.

anonymous person · Oct 1, 2015

Timeout for a second. I interrupt this regularly scheduled tit for tat back and forth internet forum argument and bickering to give you a special news bulletin.

I love you guys.

A lot of us feel we have been wronged growing up. Indeed we have. Some of us have been molested, abused, abandoned, ridiculed, and despised. For some, the perpetrator was someone close to us, someone that should have loved and protected us. For some it was a stranger. For many of us, this happened to us while we identified as Christians. For some this is not the case.

Now some no longer identify as Christians. That is ok. I still care for you all and want you to know that at least, if nothing else, I love you.

I want to issue a call for complete transparency, as frightening as it is. If you no longer identify as a Christian because of some wrong or injustice you have received at the hand of another, then say that. If you think God is a pretty lousy guy for allowing you to be abused, then say that. If anyone is lying about why they hold or do not hold to certain beliefs, then they are hurting themselves, not the people they are lying to. I assure all of you that I am going to go to bed and rest well tonight whether everyone here is transparent or not.

So let us love one another on this forum. Surely we can all agree that we have an obligation to do so, right?

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

As I was saying said:
Religion is totally unimportant to me. What I major on is my faith in God. I don't need religion for that as it is a one to one relationship which I can enjoy anywhere, anytime and without interruption.

The scriptures say to pray without ceasing. That is me. I am talking to God all the time and he is talking to me all the time. If I want to know anything I just ask God and he gives me the answer. That way I don't have to ask myself "shall I do this" or "shall I do that" or shall I do the other." And you know what, when I do what he tells me to do, bingo, the desired outcome happens.

In other words, religion is very important to you.

Cearbhall · Oct 1, 2015

anonymous person said:
A lot of us feel we have been wronged growing up. Indeed we have. Some of us have been molested, abused, abandoned, ridiculed, and despised. For some, the perpetrator was someone close to us, someone that should have loved and protected us. For some it was a stranger. For many of us, this happened to us while we identified as Christians.

I say this without any sarcasm or malice: Are you in the right thread? This seems like a pretty heavy and unrelated topic.

Archaeopteryx · Oct 1, 2015

anonymous person said:
I want to issue a call for complete transparency, as frightening as it is. If you no longer identify as a Christian because of some wrong or injustice you have received at the hand of another, then say that. If you think God is a pretty lousy guy for allowing you to be abused, then say that. If anyone is lying about why they hold or do not hold to certain beliefs, then they are hurting themselves, not the people they are lying to. I assure all of you that I am going to go to bed and rest well tonight whether everyone here is transparent or not.

Given your history, are you sure that's wise?

Chriliman · Oct 1, 2015

Davian said:
I dunno. a.p. has shown me several places where his theology falls down and can't get up. And yourself, your evasion does speak of things you have yet to resolve.

lol. I don't think what you post here would really benefit from being done in person.

Perhaps you should see a doctor about that.

Seriously, had we discussed these topics in person we could of had the entire contents of this thread hashed out in maybe an hour or two. Instead it has taken days if not weeks. And it probably would've ended in you being converted or a fist fight. jking

Good night all!

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