The Origen of All Modern Versions

[a pilgrim]

You know which Bible IS the BEST?

You really want to know, right?

Are you ready for this?

God has said.

(scroll down)




















A read one!

Get it? Read (Red)

I'm a KJV only man, but God is more concerned I read it and head it!

 

[OzSpen]

You know which Bible IS the BEST?

You really want to know, right?

Are you ready for this?

God has said.

(scroll down)

A read one!

Get it? Read (Red)

I'm a KJV only man, but God is more concerned I read it and head it!

Chapter & verse please to confirm that "God has said" that the KJV is the best Bible.

Oz

 

[Assyrian]

Chapter & verse please to confirm that "God has said" that the KJV is the best Bible.

Oz

Think you missed a pilgrim's point

 

[OzSpen]

Think you missed a pilgrim's point

Please tell me what I missed.

Oz

 

[Timothew]

The best translation is useless if a person doesn't read it.

 

[a pilgrim]

The best translation is useless if a person doesn't read it.

Hey, Oz, Bro. Timothew got it. . .

(on the nose)

 

[OzSpen]

Hey, Oz, Bro. Timothew got it. . .

(on the nose)

I got it and I've just read your comment after my daily Bible reading from the New Living Translation. God wants us to do more than read our Bibles. He wants us to put it into practice. See Hebrews 4:12 where the "word of God" has a broad application.

However, for many people in the OT era and for much of the NT era, they did not have copies of the Scripture. How do you think they got on with reading the Word of God, the Scriptures.

We have an added problem. Wycliffe Bible Translators tell us that there are 340 million people around the world who do not have a Bible in their own language. Add to that the problem of many people being illiterate. Some estimates are that the illiteracy in Africa is as high as 60% in some areas. Even in the privileged West, there can be illiteracy of up to 5%.

At the end of the 20th century, only about 25% of the world's children were in school, according to the United Nations. See literacy rates HERE.

How do these people get on with reading the Bible?

However, the OP was to deal with the origin (not origen as in the OP) of modern Bible translations.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[a pilgrim]

I got it and I've just read your comment after my daily Bible reading from the New Living Translation. God wants us to do more than read our Bibles. He wants us to put it into practice. See Hebrews 4:12 where the "word of God" has a broad application.

However, for many people in the OT era and for much of the NT era, they did not have copies of the Scripture. How do you think they got on with reading the Word of God, the Scriptures.

We have an added problem. Wycliffe Bible Translators tell us that there are 340 million people around the world who do not have a Bible in their own language. Add to that the problem of many people being illiterate. Some estimates are that the illiteracy in Africa is as high as 60% in some areas. Even in the privileged West, there can be illiteracy of up to 5%.

At the end of the 20th century, only about 25% of the world's children were in school, according to the United Nations. See literacy rates HERE.

How do these people get on with reading the Bible?

However, the OP was to deal with the origin (not origen as in the OP) of modern Bible translations.

Sincerely, Oz

They have three lights before the Lord, in his time, let's someone come in and give them a translation in their native tongue:

1. The light of conscience:

Rom. 2
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

2. The light of creation:

Psalm 19
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalm 97
[6] The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

3. Then finally, the Light of Christ:

John 5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I've recommend two excellent books: 'Bruchko,' and 'And the Word Came With Power.' Both record how God went to work before tribal groups had a translation in their native tongue.

 

[OzSpen]

a pilgrim,

I agree with your 3 points but that is not the issue I am discussing. I was discussing how 340 million people in the world could not hear the gospel in their original language because there are no Bibles translated in those languages - according to Wycliffe Bible Translators.

This is the issue regarding salvation through Christ:

But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? (Rom. 10:14 NLT).

Even after some of these 340 million come to Christ, thanks to a Christian preacher who learns the language and goes to these language groups, how will they continue to grow in the faith and read the Bible daily when there is no Bible in their language for them to read?

Daily Bible reading is a luxury for the literate world of people who have a Bible in their languages.

Oz

They have three lights before the Lord, in his time, let's someone come in and give them a translation in their native tongue:

1. The light of conscience:

Rom. 2
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

2. The light of creation:

Psalm 19
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalm 97
[6] The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

3. Then finally, the Light of Christ:

John 5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I've recommend two excellent books: 'Bruchko,' and 'And the Word Came With Power.' Both record how God went to work before tribal groups had a translation in their native tongue.

 

[a pilgrim]

a pilgrim,

I agree with your 3 points but that is not the issue I am discussing. I was discussing how 340 million people in the world could not hear the gospel in their original language because there are no Bibles translated in those languages - according to Wycliffe Bible Translators.

This is the issue regarding salvation through Christ:
Even after some of these 340 million come to Christ, thanks to a Christian preacher who learns the language and goes to these language groups, how will they continue to grow in the faith and read the Bible daily when there is no Bible in their language for them to read?

Daily Bible reading is a luxury for the literate world of people who have a Bible in their languages.

Oz

Alas! And we have multiple copies and days we don't read one of them. May the Lord send laborers for the harvest to translate for these tribes, and nations, and tongues.

 

[OzSpen]

Alas! And we have multiple copies and days we don't read one of them. May the Lord send laborers for the harvest to translate for these tribes, and nations, and tongues.

Amen!

That's why my wife and I have supported two Wycliffe missionaries translating Scriptures in East Timor. It's a long, sometimes tedious, but very rewarding job.

I'm indeed blessed by the continuing ministry of translation by the Summer Institute of Linguistics (now called SIL International).

In Christ, Oz

 

[a pilgrim]

Amen!

That's why my wife and I have supported two Wycliffe missionaries translating Scriptures in East Timor. It's a long, sometimes tedious, but very rewarding job.

I'm indeed blessed by the continuing ministry of translation by the Summer Institute of Linguistics (now called SIL International).

In Christ, Oz

We have some friends whose son is currently attending Baptist Bible Translators Institute in Bowie, TX. By the way, there is a good article on their site, 'Why the King James Version,' just for interest.

 

[kiwimac]

We have some friends whose son is currently attending Baptist Bible Translators Institute in Bowie, TX. By the way, there is a good article on their site, 'Why the King James Version,' just for interest.

Their article is the same old tired KJV-only nonsense recycled.

 

[a pilgrim]

Their article is the same old tired KJV-only nonsense recycled.

Yes, Father Mac, at the end of the day I never side with scholarship but simple hillbilly logic:

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One Salvation, One Christ, One Church, and One Bible.

Satan has his counterfeits for all of these, but I side with one.

 

[Timothew]

Yes, Father Mac, at the end of the day I never side with scholarship but simple hillbilly logic:

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One Salvation, One Christ, One Church, and One Bible.

Satan has his counterfeits for all of these, but I side with one.

Are you joking?

 

[a pilgrim]

Are you joking?

No, Bro. Tim, I'm actually very serious. I called it "simple hillbilly logic" tongue and cheek. The fact of the matter is it is simple Bible logic. Consider:

Psalm 12
[6] The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Call me ignorant, uninformed, whatever, but on Judgment Day, I will say, "Lord, I believed you meant what you said, said what you meant, kept your word, and man, though he tried, did not ultimately keep you from preserving a "pure word" from the generations of those who would try to corrupt, dilute, tamper with, etc., Your Holy Word."

The Psalmist said:

1. It's pure. Unlike Bill Clinton's, "That depends on what is, is," statement, God said PURE, God meant PURE, therefore it IS PURE.

Rom. 3
[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

2. The Psalmist said, ". . . purified seven times. . . " Seven, the number of completion. God gave it pure, completely pure.

3. Though He, (God,) has used men throughout the ages, notice the KEEPING of the word is done BY HIM. So, if Groups A, B, C, OR D try to update, correct, change, or in anywise alter HIS word, I can rest assured, SOMEWHERE out there is the PURE PRESERVED version for my use.

Why would this be important?

Matt. 4
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Did you get that? Man shall not live by the best copy we think we have taken from elusive originals, (that nobody has,) but man is to live his life by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD. Period.

Why would Christ say that, and then hide the pure, preserved word of God from his children?

SCENARIO: Son, I want you to attend to the chores I left you on the list today. What list, Dad? The list I left to your sister. She made a copy of the list and gave it to your other sister, who made some updates. Your mother came along, knowing better what I meant, (wanting to give you the dymanic equivalent to what I said,) and has made her VERSION of the list. Uncle Dave, knowing what farm life is like, and knowing farm TERMINOLOGY which we use nowdays, has taken moms list, and done a FRESH NEW translation. Got that? The boy stands there, stupified at the insane request that he do WHAT DAD SAID, knowing it is NOT DAD'S PURE WORDS.

QUESTION: Should we marvel if the boy misses some of the essential elements of Dad's original request? Of course not. It is not logical.

Why should we think our loving heavenly Father would do us any different? Oh, because we have that most trusted and reliable SCHOLARSHIP to count on. Hah!

So, would God keep them, you know the words, individual and significant, for us, clean through the end?

Matt. 24
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

So, I use simple hillbilly logic. All versions are not alike. Some have omissions, and changes others do not include. Some rely on different base manuscripts. But if God said what he meant, and meant what he said, AND kept if for me, then only one, (in my English language,) can be the pure one. I may be accused of many things, I HAVE ISSUES, but God can be trusted. He is not a liar. Therefore, I can boldly stand on ONE translation, (for me in the English.)

 

[kiwimac]

Psalm 12: [6] The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. [7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Verse 7 does not refer to 'the words of the Lord', it refers back to verse 5

5 Because of the oppression of the poor, because of the sighing of the needy, Now will I arise, saith Jehovah; I will set him in the safety he panteth for. Psalms 12:5 (ASV)

which the marginal notes in the KJV at Psalm 12:7 show:

Heb. him, I. euery one of them.

 

[kiwimac]

There is NO pure, preserved translation in English or any other language.

 

[a pilgrim]

There is NO pure, preserved translation in English or any other language.

If that's what you want to go stand before Father with, have at it, brother.

Psalm 119
[140] Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Prov. 30
[5] Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
[6] Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

1 Peter 1
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The real thing is INCAPABLE of being corrupted. It is kept in the library of Heaven:

Psalm 119
[89] For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Now, why would he settle it in heaven, and keep it from us poor humans that need it most?

I have the pure word of God, God is not a liar. I love it.

 

[verysincere]

If that's what you want to go stand before Father with, have at it, brother.

I have the pure word of God, God is not a liar. I love it.

On most forums this would be where one would see many "I call POE first!" declarations. But I would rather ask a related question of our "KJV fan": Does God establish one "pure" Bible translation for each language?

And can you concisely explain how God "revealed" to centuries of English language speakers that the KJV is superior to all English Bible translations which preceded and followed it? And where does the Bible say that God designates one "pure translation" for any given language?