The only fruit I refuse to eat.

ViaCrucis · Mar 24, 2022

This thread started weird.

And it's gotten so much weirder.

So we're on about meat trees now? Because if I can grow bacon from a tree, I think I could be a very happy and probably quite rich fellow.

-CryptoLutheran

Aryeh Jay · Mar 24, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
This thread started weird.

And it's gotten so much weirder.

So we're on about meat trees now? Because if I can grow bacon from a tree, I think I could be a very happy and probably quite rich fellow.

-CryptoLutheran

On top of spaghetti. Clearly speaks of meatball trees.

durangodawood · Mar 24, 2022

Skye1300 said:
This is what it says:
The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
Genesis 2:15-17....

Thats not all it says. It also says:

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Its a fruit. Not an animal. Bible says so right there.

Xavier363 · Mar 24, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Plants and fruit starts a healing process in the body. Meat is the only food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death.
People die now because of the sin nature. The deed is done now. The process of physical death has been passed down now from Adam & Eve.

And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.”
Genesis 1:29
He created mankind to eat plants and fruit only.

Thanks for the reply, but I noticed that you didn't answer my question about vegetarians. I'll ask again:

Xavier363 said:
Are vegetarians only dying from accidents and not natural causes?

Perhaps you could supply a link to a study showing that:

Skye1300 said:
Meat is the only food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death.

So if:

Skye1300 said:
The deed is done now. The process of physical death has been passed down now from Adam & Eve.

Then it would seem that what we eat is irrelevant.

Perhaps you could clarify what you regard as meat. From this list, what would you call meat:
Beef, pork, fish, turtles, frogs, amphibians in general, deer, bison, kangaroos, birds (both flying and flightless), snakes, lizards, insects, meat eating plants, birds that eat meat, bird eggs (fertilized or not), fish eggs (roe), whale, shark, and maybe some category that I missed here.

Xavier363 · Mar 25, 2022

durangodawood said:
Thats not all it says. It also says:

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Its a fruit. Not an animal. Bible says so right there.

The bible also says Jesus cured a blind man by spitting on the ground, scooping up the moist clay, and rubbing it into the blind man's eyes.

Also to cure leprosy:
Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.
- Leviticus 14:2-52

So, just because the bible says so doesn't mean that it is actually true. I'd like a second opinion. Just saying...

Skye1300 · Mar 26, 2022

Xavier363 said:
Thanks for the reply, but I noticed that you didn't answer my question about vegetarians. I'll ask again:

Perhaps you could supply a link to a study showing that:

So if:

Then it would seem that what we eat is irrelevant.

Perhaps you could clarify what you regard as meat. From this list, what would you call meat:
Beef, pork, fish, turtles, frogs, amphibians in general, deer, bison, kangaroos, birds (both flying and flightless), snakes, lizards, insects, meat eating plants, birds that eat meat, bird eggs (fertilized or not), fish eggs (roe), whale, shark, and maybe some category that I missed here.

No, vegetarians do not only die from accidents, they die from natural causes because they have inherited a fallen body from the original sin.

As far as original sin is concerned what we eat now is irrelevant, but there's still the health issue. If a person doesn't care about their health, then no, it doesn't matter now.

Meat is any animals or animal products. It's all unhealthy for the body. It's not the original food God intended for us to eat. But avoiding meat now won't undo the original sin. It will improve your health but won't prevent death. But that's also the case if the forbidden fruit was an apple or orange. Avoiding eating it now would not erase the original sin. And avoiding meat now would not erase original sin. So nothing has changed in that sense.

But meat makes the most sense of being the forbidden fruit. Death entered the planet when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and they had to kill something to eat meat. Starting the death process on the earth. The blood of the animal fell to the ground cursing the ground with death and the sin of the fall and the ground became cursed. The knowledge of evil started with killing something. That's why it was easy for Cain to kill Abel. The next step was killing a person. Think about how serial killers start out by killing helpless animals. That's how evilness starts. That's where the animal skin came from that God gave Adam and Eve to cover themselves with.

Plus, fruit doesn't have to be literally fruit, there's fruit of the womb and fruit of your labor etc.

Xavier363 · Mar 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
No, vegetarians do not only die from accidents, they die from natural causes because they have inherited a fallen body from the original sin.

As far as original sin is concerned what we eat now is irrelevant, but there's still the health issue. If a person doesn't care about their health, then no, it doesn't matter now.

Meat is any animals or animal products. It's all unhealthy for the body. It's not the original food God intended for us to eat. But avoiding meat now won't undo the original sin. It will improve your health but won't prevent death. But that's also the case if the forbidden fruit was an apple or orange. Avoiding eating it now would not erase the original sin. And avoiding meat now would not erase original sin. So nothing has changed in that sense.

But meat makes the most sense of being the forbidden fruit. Death entered the planet when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and they had to kill something to eat meat. Starting the death process on the earth. The blood of the animal fell to the ground cursing the ground with the sin of the fall and the ground became cursed. The knowledge of evil started with killing something. That's why it was easy for Cain to kill Abel. The next step was killing a person. Think about how serial killers start out by killing helpless animals. That's how evilness starts.

Plus, fruit doesn't have to be literally fruit, there's fruit of the womb and fruit of your labor etc.

Hang on, lets just take a pause here, ok?

Skye1300 said:
The knowledge of evil started with killing something. That's why it was easy for Cain to kill Abel. The next step was killing a person. think about how serial killers start out by killing helpless animals. That's how evilness starts.

Lets not talk about killing people, ok?

So, what we eat currently is irrelevant:

Skye1300 said:
As far as original sin is concerned what we eat now is irrelevant, but there's still the health issue. If a person doesn't care about their health, then no, it doesn't matter now.

So if I care about my health, but it does not matter if I'm vegetarian, or if I eat meat... Then, what? I'm super confused. If what we eat is irrelevant, then what would you suggest that we eat? And where are you getting this information?

You stated that:

Skye1300 said:
Meat is any animals or animal products. It's all unhealthy for the body. It's not the original food God intended for us to eat. But avoiding meat now won't undo the original sin. It will improve your health but won't prevent death.

Are fish animals? Penguins? Chickens? Pigs? You really need to nail down what you mean by "animals". Humans are also animals, just so you know. You stated that "meat" is unhealthy for the body - where are you getting this from? Perhaps, again, you could provide a link to a study that shows the relationship between consumption of "meat" and its overall negative effect on humans?

Original sin: If your grandfather never paid a parking ticket (that he super duper deserved to pay - no get out of jail free card on this offense) do you think that the legal system would be justified in coming after you for the non-payment of the parking ticket?
Said another way: If I punch your mother and later apologize to my neighbor for my behavior, would that absolve me of my responsibility of my actions towards your mother?

Original sin is the nonsense belief that you can commit an offense against one person and because of that, another unrelated person somehow bears responsibility. I bear no responsibility for the actions of anyone other than myself. I mean, duh. Try to take that to a court of law - I'm guilty of (pick something) because of something a story says about something that happened thousands of years ago? Thrown out of court, immediately.

And, just to show how ridiculous this is:

Skye1300 said:
Plus, fruit doesn't have to be literally fruit, there's fruit of the womb and fruit of your labor etc.

Ok, so what is fruit, then? If it is not literal, how should we know? Apples, bacon, what? Who decides? Is bacon the non-literal form of fruit? When I design a circuit board for a computer, is that "fruit" the same as a mango?

Skye1300 · Mar 26, 2022

Xavier363 said:
Perhaps you could supply a link to a study showing that:

Okay here's an article and there are many more:

America is a nation of meat eaters, with the average person consuming about 100 pounds of red meat each year, according to the United States Department of Agriculture. But numerous studies have found that consuming red meat can be dangerous to your health, causing an increased risk for heart disease, Type 2 Diabetes and multiple types of cancers.

In 2015, the World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) made headlines around the world when it announced that processed meats cause cancer. Processed meat includes bacon, salami, bologna, hot dogs, sausages, corned beef, pastrami, canned meat and ham. This category also includes any meat that has been preserved by smoking, curing, salting or adding preservatives.

The IARC group of 22 experts from 10 countries found that eating 50 grams of processed meat a day, which is less than two slices of bacon, increases the chance of developing colorectal cancer by 18 percent. Toni Brayer, M.D., an internist with the Sutter Pacific Medical Foundation, says IARC confirmed what many scientists and doctors have known for years — that processed meats are essentially carcinogenic.

“The data is as strong as it possibly can be that processed meat creates a higher incidence of cancers, particularly pancreatic, prostate, stomach and colorectal cancers,” Dr. Brayer says. “IARC also said that fresh cuts of red meat probably cause cancer, too.”

Processed meats are now listed in the same carcinogen category as alcoholic beverages, asbestos, arsenic, diesel engine exhaust and cigarettes.
Does Meat Cause Cancer? | Sutter Health

Skye1300 · Mar 26, 2022

I said if you DON'T care about your health then eating meat doesn't matter. But if you DO care about your health then eating meat matters. Avoiding meat now won't undo the fallen nature, but avoiding meat can improve your health.

Xavier363 · Mar 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Okay here's an article and there are many more:

America is a nation of meat eaters, with the average person consuming about 100 pounds of red meat each year, according to the United States Department of Agriculture. But numerous studies have found that consuming red meat can be dangerous to your health, causing an increased risk for heart disease, Type 2 Diabetes and multiple types of cancers.

In 2015, the World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) made headlines around the world when it announced that processed meats cause cancer. Processed meat includes bacon, salami, bologna, hot dogs, sausages, corned beef, pastrami, canned meat and ham. This category also includes any meat that has been preserved by smoking, curing, salting or adding preservatives.

The IARC group of 22 experts from 10 countries found that eating 50 grams of processed meat a day, which is less than two slices of bacon, increases the chance of developing colorectal cancer by 18 percent. Toni Brayer, M.D., an internist with the Sutter Pacific Medical Foundation, says IARC confirmed what many scientists and doctors have known for years — that processed meats are essentially carcinogenic.

“The data is as strong as it possibly can be that processed meat creates a higher incidence of cancers, particularly pancreatic, prostate, stomach and colorectal cancers,” Dr. Brayer says. “IARC also said that fresh cuts of red meat probably cause cancer, too.”

Processed meats are now listed in the same carcinogen category as alcoholic beverages, asbestos, arsenic, diesel engine exhaust and cigarettes.
Does Meat Cause Cancer? | Sutter Health

Nope, a link to a news article (I've not heard of Sutter Health before - but that does not mean it is illegitimate) is not good enough. Please provide a link to an actual scientific study.

You stated that "Meat is the only food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death." There are many non-meat things that people can eat that will lead to illness and death. Poisonous mushrooms, frogs, bacteria, etc.

So, please clarify. Are you saying that eating meat is unhealthy, or is sinful?

Xavier363 said:
So, what we eat currently is irrelevant:
So if I care about my health, but it does not matter if I'm vegetarian, or if I eat meat... Then, what? I'm super confused. If what we eat is irrelevant, then what would you suggest that we eat? And where are you getting this information?

Are you concerned about health, or about sin?

I noticed that you didn't address my questions regarding original sin:

Xavier363 said:
Original sin: If your grandfather never paid a parking ticket (that he super duper deserved to pay - no get out of jail free card on this offense) do you think that the legal system would be justified in coming after you for the non-payment of the parking ticket?
Said another way: If I punch your mother and later apologize to my neighbor for my behavior, would that absolve me of my responsibility of my actions towards your mother?

Original sin is the nonsense belief that you can commit an offense against one person and because of that, another unrelated person somehow bears responsibility. I bear no responsibility for the actions of anyone other than myself. I mean, duh. Try to take that to a court of law - I'm guilty of (pick something) because of something a story says about something that happened thousands of years ago? Thrown out of court, immediately.

I get that there is a net negative effect for the planet, raising animals for red meat. The amount of land, water, and grains that it takes to produce that meat could be better used for other purposes. I get that. But to state that eating meat is the "only" food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death - that is just a flat out lie. A sin in your belief system.

com7fy8 · Mar 26, 2022

Monowhite said:
This is why I think it's important to keep a list of suspected fruits and maintain distance if you can.

By the way . . . welcome to Christian Forums

The Bible does not name any presently known fruits as being in the Garden of Eden.

Adam and Eve were kicked out after eating fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. So, I see it possible that they left that tree and its fruit behind.

But, of course, even after they left the Garden, still they had the effect of disobeying God.

And, by the way, apples are not listed in God's word, as fruit we are not to eat. God's dietary commands to Moses do not mention apples . . . or any other fruits . . . as being a no-no for eating, that I know of.

Plus . . . in the New Covenant > our Apostle Paul says there will be wrong people who command us >

"to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." (in 1 Timothy 4:1-5)

But Adam and Eve were told not to partake of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

But the serpent told them they would become like God if they ate it.

But Satan is a lier; so I would not assume that anything he has said is true!!

God said they would die, and they did.

So, what is the problem of feeding on knowledge of good and evil? What does this mean?

My understanding . . . which I would say is growing . . . is God means we should not feed on and depend on what we know about the good and the evil of this world. Our attention needs to be to loving, instead . . . sharing with God so we are love the way He wants, in sharing with Him in us.

And stay prayerful so the good and evil of this life does not guide us and decide how we are. But submit to God in His peace, and discover how He cares for us and guides us.

But there are ones who are very busy with keeping track of the good and the bad of this life . . . in order so they can control people and make themselves look important by being in the know about things. And so they are indeed trying to be gods, and certainly not like God.

But I think God will have us knowing things which He decides for us to know, and use our knowledge for His good . . . as He guides.

But Adam and Eve did what got them isolated from God . . . like how ones now can use knowledge in ways which isolate them. And they have a sort of independence and freedom of will which isolates them from others, so they do not find out how to share as family with God and His people.

When they know things, they can get into arguing and complaining about what they know. And so they are weak, and can even be dead . . . not alive in God's love. But in Jesus we can "know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." (in Ephesians 3:19)

ViaCrucis · Mar 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
No, vegetarians do not only die from accidents, they die from natural causes because they have inherited a fallen body from the original sin.

As far as original sin is concerned what we eat now is irrelevant, but there's still the health issue. If a person doesn't care about their health, then no, it doesn't matter now.

Meat is any animals or animal products. It's all unhealthy for the body. It's not the original food God intended for us to eat. But avoiding meat now won't undo the original sin. It will improve your health but won't prevent death. But that's also the case if the forbidden fruit was an apple or orange. Avoiding eating it now would not erase the original sin. And avoiding meat now would not erase original sin. So nothing has changed in that sense.

But meat makes the most sense of being the forbidden fruit. Death entered the planet when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and they had to kill something to eat meat. Starting the death process on the earth. The blood of the animal fell to the ground cursing the ground with death and the sin of the fall and the ground became cursed. The knowledge of evil started with killing something. That's why it was easy for Cain to kill Abel. The next step was killing a person. Think about how serial killers start out by killing helpless animals. That's how evilness starts. That's where the animal skin came from that God gave Adam and Eve to cover themselves with.

Plus, fruit doesn't have to be literally fruit, there's fruit of the womb and fruit of your labor etc.

Question: Do you believe Jesus was sinning when He, after the resurrection, showed Himself to His followers out on the water, helped them catch fish, then cooked and ate it with them on the shore?

How about when Jesus took the loaves and fishes and fed the five thousand? How about every time Jesus celebrated the Passover?

It's perfectly fine if you want to avoid meat out of conscience. But you certainly don't have any right to judge those who do (Romans 14:1-4).

-CryptoLutheran

Hans Blaster · Mar 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Meat is any animals or animal products. It's all unhealthy for the body. It's not the original food God intended for us to eat. But avoiding meat now won't undo the original sin. It will improve your health but won't prevent death. But that's also the case if the forbidden fruit was an apple or orange. Avoiding eating it now would not erase the original sin. And avoiding meat now would not erase original sin. So nothing has changed in that sense.

Except fish, right? Fish aren't meat, right?

Hans Blaster · Mar 26, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Animals can live/dwell in trees.

I saw a picture this week of a tree branch with many cats just waiting to be picked.

durangodawood · Mar 26, 2022

Xavier363 said:
The bible also says Jesus cured a blind man by spitting on the ground, scooping up the moist clay, and rubbing it into the blind man's eyes.

Also to cure leprosy:
Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.
- Leviticus 14:2-52

So, just because the bible says so doesn't mean that it is actually true. I'd like a second opinion. Just saying...

I dont mean its literally true. I just mean its what the text of the story specifically states.

Xavier363 · Mar 27, 2022

durangodawood said:
I dont mean its literally true. I just mean its what the text of the story specifically states.

And I'm just saying that arguing something because the bible says so is flawed.

durangodawood said:
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Its a fruit. Not an animal. Bible says so right there.

If the bible says you can cure leprosy by killing birds and dipping one in the blood of the other, etc - this is super obviously wrong. This means that other passages should be looked at very skeptically. I mean, its a trivial but fun point to debate what type of fruit is forbidden but in the long run, there is no reason to believe that the "garden of eden" actually existed.

durangodawood · Mar 27, 2022

Xavier363 said:
And I'm just saying that arguing something because the bible says so is flawed.

If the bible says you can cure leprosy by killing birds and dipping one in the blood of the other, etc - this is super obviously wrong. This means that other passages should be looked at very skeptically. I mean, its a trivial but fun point to debate what type of fruit is forbidden but in the long run, there is no reason to believe that the "garden of eden" actually existed.

Lets say someone was arguing Moby Dick was the black whale in Melville's novel. When you correct them, are you asserting there really was a white whale? Of course not.

Further, as you endeavor to understand Melville's intent, its important to get facts like the color of the whale right, as theses facts can bring along loads of symbolic content.

BNR32FAN · Mar 27, 2022

Monowhite said:
The humble apple.

Why, you might ask?
Why the biblical apple of Eden?
Science dictates an average apple contains fiber and antioxidants, and may help with such physical ailments such as heart disease, cancer and diabetes.
But does it though?

They say an apple a day keeps the Doctor away. This may be true. But does it keep 'you know who' away? SATAN?
The answer is no.

The 'humble' apple was the fruit that Adam stole to impress Eve. Point being, it was the first fruit, the cursed fruit.
A poem always stuck with me.
'Red, green or anywhere between, trust not of this fruit. Baked in a pie or picked from a tree, the lie grows larger if you share the apple with me. The pie is a lie and so is the apple, but a bite of this fruit and you'll be crying in the chapel.'
It's a poem as old as time, but one that continues to provide wisdom.
Some men lay orchards and groves. Some wives use them for pies.
Those people are weak.

Some may consider my apple-aversion as a bit extreme, but I think it's healthy to avoid such temptations. There's plenty of other fruit we can be growing or eating and at the end of the day it's a deliberate aversion rather than an allergy.

In this day and age it becomes tougher by the day to avoid the consumption of apples, especially with the likes of commercial temples like so called 'supermarkets' and 'mega-malls' selling applies in bulk, or juice companies pulping such juice into cartons and selling them off to ignorant consumers. Apples can be found in fruit salads or mixed in with other refreshing fruit juices microscopically. Apples can be found in flavored 'smoking' vapes and crumbles and strudels and football and television. It might be legal, but it's frustrating.

Check the label. I guess that's what I'm getting at. Or ask whoever it is that's serving you and don't take no for an answer..
'Does this contain apple? If so, get rid of it, I don't want to look at it'.
That's all you need to say.

Now back to the bible.

The apple stole paradise from man. Or more precisely, it was the greed of man that wanted more than paradise (perhaps on the whims of his woman [Eve]) and his bite of the apple took paradise away, or the snake deceived him - knowing that the tempation of man with paradise up his sleeve lacked the one fruit, dangling the forbidden fruit above man, like a carrot above a donkey. Only to be banished.
It's a convuloted story with blame being placed all over the place, but the ultimate lesson is:
Apples are a no go.
Sorry, but no.

These are the first lessons.
And lessons I am sure to never repeat.

The forbidden fruit came from the one and only tree of knowledge of good and evil which only existed in the middle of the Garden of Eden which has been off limits to man since the fall. Man is no longer permitted to enter the Garden of Eden so apples cannot be the forbidden fruit but it’s still good that you refrain from eating them out of respect and obedience to God.

Xavier363 · Mar 27, 2022

durangodawood said:
Lets say someone was arguing Moby Dick was the black whale in Melville's novel. When you correct them, are you asserting there really was a white whale? Of course not.

Further, as you endeavor to understand Melville's intent, its important to get facts like the color of the whale right, as theses facts can bring along loads of symbolic content.

So, lets not divert here and talk about whales - unless we are able to eat them?

The bible is incorrect on how to cure blindness and how to cure leprosy - correct? This is a simple yes / no question - I hope that you can give your answer and we can move on. Also, do you think that anything in the bible is "literally" true?

BNR32FAN · Mar 27, 2022

Xavier363 said:
And I'm just saying that arguing something because the bible says so is flawed.

If the bible says you can cure leprosy by killing birds and dipping one in the blood of the other, etc - this is super obviously wrong. This means that other passages should be looked at very skeptically. I mean, its a trivial but fun point to debate what type of fruit is forbidden but in the long run, there is no reason to believe that the "garden of eden" actually existed.

By that logic one couldn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection of Christ which is are most imperative beliefs for a Christian.

The only fruit I refuse to eat.

Do you partake of the forbidden fruit of Eden?

Yes I do.

No I do not.

Other (explain below).

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