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It makes me want to cry to see just how uncaringly the church has disregarded the Word of God. (Matthew 23:8-9) You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.
It makes me want to cry to see just how uncaringly the church has disregarded the Word of God. (Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”
Paraphrasing Christ: Do not confuse any man with the creator.
Forgive me...
Psalm 100:3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
The term for "father" in Greek also means origin/originator. God the Father is the origin/originator of creation and revelation.
It makes me want to cry to see just how uncaringly the church has disregarded the Word of God. (Matthew 23:8-9) You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.
"orthodox Christians" on this thread: Do you agree that The Church teaches that both the office of "Priest" and "The Priesthood of all believers" are true Christian teachings?
Forgive me...
yes
Note also, that the general understanding of the "action" denoted by the term priest (offering all given by God to God in thanksgiving) is the "being/doing" of a Christian.
You cannot show me where any disciple of Jesus ever called another man here on earth his father.No...what is amazing, however, is your private interpretation of the text which contradicts the whole of Scripture and the Living Tradition of the Church. This is an example of "eisegesis" (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to "exegesis" (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of fathers and rabbis because they were hypocrites. Christ was not against the titles per se.
The word "Father" and "Child" was used by the Holy Apostles, not always denoting a blood relation (i.e., Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13, 1 Cor. 4:15, 1 Cor. 4:17, Phil. 2:22, Philemon 10, 1 Tim. 1:2,18). Saint Paul was the Early Christians Spiritual Father in the faith, as he told them.
I suggest you read the above link given by OrthodoxyUSA, and read Scriptures as whole and not taking bits by bits to come up with a personal interpretation to attack us Orthodox.
In IC.XC,
Ramon
Do you offer all that God has given back to God in thanksgiving ? Then, yes.So, does this mean you, OUSA, me, etc are priests?
You cannot show me where any disciple of Jesus ever called another man here on earth his father.
Why is it whenever people dont like what a verse says, the say it is taken out of context, hyperbole, or he wasnt speaking to us?
First I didnt take that passage out of context. You will have a hard time saying Jesus was exaggerating when he said that about calling another man father. Telling me that he was just talking to the Jews is almost the most ridiculous excuse of all of them.
Isnt it strange how when it is convenient for your understanding of the written Word of God it becomes a history book? Well it is not. The Holy Spirit had those words placed in the Bible because they are talking to us.
Also I didnt just come to my understanding by my reasoning. I asked Jesus, and he told me that it was dangerous for both parties. To call another man father is dangerous, and to be called father is dangerous.
It is a shame that you think only you or your church can read the whole Word of God, and have the Holy Spirit explain it to him or her.
What does that mean? All Americans can be President, but there is one President? All believers are priests, but you have to be in the office of a priest?
There are gifts and callings (apostles, prophets, evangelists, helpers, etc), but not everyone is an evangelist, etc. And we probably wouldn't say each believer is an evangelist. So, what does priest office and priesthood of all mean?
This is an example of "eisegesis" (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to "exegesis" (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context).
You cannot show me where any disciple of Jesus ever called another man here on earth his father.
Why is it whenever people don’t like what a verse says, the say it is taken out of context, hyperbole, or he wasn’t speaking to us?
First I didn’t take that passage out of context. You will have a hard time saying Jesus was exaggerating when he said that about calling another man father. Telling me that he was just talking to the Jews is almost the most ridiculous excuse of all of them.
Isn’t it strange how when it is convenient for your understanding of the written Word of God it becomes a history book? Well it is not. The Holy Spirit had those words placed in the Bible because they are talking to us.
Also I didn’t just come to my understanding by my reasoning. I asked Jesus, and he told me that it was dangerous for both parties. To call another man father is dangerous, and to be called father is dangerous.
For instance... I could baptize someone if there were the need. But I do not lead The Divine Liturgy in the absence of The Bishop. That is the job of the clergy.
Priest is just one of the ranks of the office of clergy.
Laity
Chanter / Acolite
Reader
Subdeacon
Deacon
Priest
Bishop
There are levels between these as well. For the most part they are training stages.
For instance... According to canon a Bishop should be able to quote the entire Psalms from memory.
Forgive me...
I suppose one way to look at it is each born-again believer could climb the ladder you laid out, ascending from laity (newbie) to clergy (oldster)?
The other way to look at it that each born-again believer is "clergy" who grows into a baby, is weaned, is an elder.
Different terms only or anything else?
BTW, what does QFT mean?
Context IS everything yes.No...what is amazing, however, is your private interpretation of the text which contradicts the whole of Scripture and the Living Tradition of the Church. This is an example of "eisegesis" (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to "exegesis" (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of fathers and rabbis because they were hypocrites. Christ was not against the titles per se.
I just did. Just because you either ignore them or reject them entirely is not my problem Giver.
The word "Father" and "Child" was used by the Holy Apostles, not always denoting a blood relation (i.e., Acts 7:2; 22:1; 14, 1 John 2:13, 1 Cor. 4:15, 1 Cor. 4:17, Phil. 2:22, Philemon 10, 1 Tim. 1:2,18). Saint Paul was the Early Christians Spiritual Father in the faith, as he told them (1 Cor 4:15).
1 Cor. 4:15 - Paul writes, "I became your father in Christ Jesus."
What so hard to understand about these verses? Jesus Christ was not against the titles per se. Did he not tell us the "honor our mother and father"?
Isn't this what you during the above Scriptures I gave? I mostly certainty like that Scripture, yet I take Scriptures as a whole and through the Living Tradition of the Church to come up with a correct and orthodox understanding of any given Scripture.
You have a hard time taking Scriptures as a whole. Rather, what you do is post a Scripture, while ignoring the context of it and ignoring what other Scriptures said. Apparently, The Holy Apostles did not took him literally, and understood what he meant! Why don't you?
Who said it is a history book?
Also I didnt just come to my understanding by my reasoning. I asked Jesus, and he told me that it was dangerous for both parties. To call another man father is dangerous, and to be called father is dangerous. [/qupte]
Or so it is based upon your private revelation?
In IC.XC,
Ramon
Not once did a disciple of Jesus call another man, on earth, his father. Paul didnt call another man his father. Read what Jesus said. Now Jesus said call no man on earth your father. How many priests do you know that are your father? Yes I fathered children and they may have an excuse to call me father. That is not what Jesus was referring to, and you know it.
(Matthew 23:8-9) You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.
Not once did a disciple of Jesus call another man, on earth, his father. Paul didn’t call another man his father. Read what Jesus said.
Yes I fathered children and they may have an excuse to call me father. That is not what Jesus was referring to, and you know it.
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