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The Noah Myth

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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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. . . A classic example is the KJV's use of Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12, even though the entire chapter is about a fallen Babylonian king, and Judaism will even tell you that. However, many Christians think it is a name for the devil, because for 400 years it has been used as such, albeit erroneously.

It appears that the error is not in the scripture or even in the KJV but a wrong interpretation which was passed down later. The Hebrew word הילל/heylel translated "Lucifer" means "Light bearer" and refers to the morning star.
 
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Vanguard PCD

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It appears that the error is not in the scripture or even in the KJV but a wrong interpretation which was passed down later. The Hebrew word הילל/heylel translated "Lucifer" means "Light bearer" and refers to the morning star.

Yes...been preaching that for years.
 
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peterlindner

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Nah.

Your selected verse is part of the parable of the fig tree. You dont have to believe in a literal Noah story in order to believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

A deeper truth available to anyone that can hear it.
Days before the flood…years of days were kept…1,656 years.
Noah went in on the 46th day of the year.
46*360=1,656

The planting(FIG TREE PARABLE)…(can't eat the fruit until after 4 years).
4 years=1,476 days plus 10% first fruits (147.6) plus redemption (fifth of that or 2% more)… equals 1,476+147.6+(29.52)(A lunar month…2nd passover)=1,653 There's a small difference (lamb separated before passover).
 
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peterlindner

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can we run this as a differential equation?

The foundational "differential" found in Adam and Eve was about fruit.
They didn't understand God's times.
Jesus hinted about it often.
The temple took 46 years…rebuilt in 3 days
Isaiah hinted at the meaning of branches and the Time of trees.

The man on a journey who planted a vineyard and sent for his fruit…how much time went by before sending for the fruit?

Mockers don't answer questions.
 
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Mark51

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Few stories are more widely known. The record of what happened to Noah is not only found in the Bible. It is retold in the Koran and-as you mentioned-n the legends of countless peoples throughout the earth. Theologians and scientists have debated this account for centuries. Yet, the Bible, the Word of God, allows no room for doubt-the account is fact, not fiction. Consider:

The Genesis account tells us the precise year, month, and day when the Deluge began, when and where the ark came to rest, and when the earth dried off. Details about the ark are also precise-the layout, the measurements, and the material used to build it. Fables, by contrast, are usually vague in their descriptions.

Two genealogical accounts in the Bible testify that Noah was a real person. (1[bless and do not curse]Chronicles 1:4; Luke 3:36) Both Ezra and Luke, who compiled these genealogies, were careful researchers. Luke traced Jesus Christ’s lineage to Noah.

References to Noah or the Flood were made by the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel and by the Christian apostles Paul and Peter.-Isaiah 54:9; Ezekiel 14:14, 20; Hebrews 11:7; 1[bless and do not curse]Peter 3:19, 20; 2[bless and do not curse]Peter 2:5.

Jesus Christ referred to the Flood, saying: “Just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:26,[bless and do not curse]27; Matthew 24:37) If the Deluge had not happened, then Jesus’ statement about “the days of the Son of man” would be meaningless.

The apostle Peter foretold that there would come “ridiculers” who would scoff at what the Bible says. “According to their wish,” Peter wrote, “this fact escapes their notice, that .[bless and do not curse].[bless and do not curse]. the world of [Noah’s] time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.” Peter continued: “The heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.”2[bless and do not curse]Peter 3:3-7.
 
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Colter

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I do not believe in the Noah story...at least not the way it has been told. I will cover several key points that make me doubt the validity of the story. Let's get started.

1. The entire human race comes from Noah's family. Genetically, this has been shown to be impossible by science. There are too many different genes in human DNA to have come from a single male/female, much less a small family. Scientists have estimated that at least 10,000 different people were needed to cover the entire human DNA gene pool.

2. Two of every land animal, male and female. Ok so this leads to a few questions. What did the animals eat while on the ark? How did a handful of people manage to feed that many animals and shovel that much poop out every single day?

3. The water rose to cover the tallest mountains. So there was so much water that Mt. Everest, at over 29,000 feet, was completely covered. Hmmm. The average temps of Mt. Everest's peak ranges between -2 F during the summer and -76 F during the winter. Water freezes at 32 F so, Noah and company would have been frozen in place...indefinitely.

4. The air thins out at high altitudes, and oxygen content diminishes. Altitude sickness can start at 8,000 feet, much less 29,000. This can make breathing difficult for some, and it can be lethal for others. Yet none on the ark died from this condition (human or animal). Not the strongest point but it is a concern.

5. The horizon, while standing on level ground, is ~3 miles away. The curvature of the earth causes this. If you go out on the middle of Lake Superior, you will see nothing but water in every direction, for miles and miles. I imagine this is the phenomenon that Noah experienced and he described it as "all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered."

6. Every culture has a flood story. Yes, because most cultures lived near water in order to survive. Their region may have flooded, but that does not mean the entire world flooded.

7. Noah was so righteous and holy that when he came off the ark, he got drunk and laid around naked. That was the only man worth saving?

8. Noah made a burnt offering of animals after coming out of the ark. Which species did he cause to go extinct, by sacrificing them? Also, the aroma was pleasing to God...He can smell? Does that mean that He has a physical body, complete with olfactory nerve?

9. A wind passed over the earth and blew the water away. Hmmm...to where? Was the earth originally flat, and the water just fell off the edges? [sarcasm] How did the wind, at 29,000 feet, melt the ice? Windchill is colder than normal air temp.

10. Carnivores have specifically designed teeth (sharp and pointed), claws and digestive acids. If they were plant eaters, their teeth would be like that of a herbivore. What did they eat after coming off the ark? There were only two of each animal. To eat one means that they can't reproduce. While we are at it, how did all the marsupials manage to wind up exclusively in Australia?

No, the Noah story is not literal. Perhaps there is some truth to it, but I am more inclined to believe that it was a local flood, not global.


genealogy


The Noah flood legend appears in the genealogy portion of the story of the Hebrew authors as they sought to trace their blood lines back to the two people whom they then believed were the first two people on earth created by God.

Being unable to trace their blood lines back to Adam they decided to drown the whole world in its own wickedness in order to fill the Gap.

The Noah flood story would have been a local flood legend that the Bronze age sheep herder audience could accept based on familiarity in the new version of Hebrew history.

We must bear in mind that the generally accepted dating of the writings (or redactions) of the OT books are the captivity period, a devastating time for the Israelites who were once again in bondage and scattered.

Upon the return to Jerusalem they once again fell under the yoke of the priest class who would claim the books to be God Word.
 
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Naboo

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1. The entire human race comes from Noah's family. Genetically, this has been shown to be impossible by science. There are too many different genes in human DNA to have come from a single male/female, much less a small family. Scientists have estimated that at least 10,000 different people were needed to cover the entire human DNA gene pool.

Does this mean we did not come from Adam and Eve?
 
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Colter

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Does this mean we did not come from Adam and Eve?

Yes, the Chinese aren't Jews, which may explain why Christianity hasn't made much headway in China when we tell them that their ancient Chinese dynasties actually came from a 950 year old Hebrew man.

No other culture on earth traces their ancestry to the Hebrews.
 
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Naboo

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Yes, the Chinese aren't Jews, which may explain why Christianity hasn't made much headway in China when we tell them that their ancient Chinese dynasties actually came from a 950 year old Hebrew man.

No other culture on earth traces their ancestry to the Hebrews.

How can we believe anything the Bible says then? How can Christianity be the truth?
 
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single eye

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Naboo asks "How can we believe anything the bible says then? How can christianiity be the truth? Very good question. The answer is simple. Stop looking at the bible as a single book. The bible is a compilation of writings from three different groups of writers, o.t., Paul & his followers, and the disciples. Only the saints followed a GOD of unconditional love as revealed to them by The Spirit of Truth and Jesus.
 
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Colter

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How can we believe anything the Bible says then? How can Christianity be the truth?

When we read the newspaper we bear in mind the imperfection of the reporting, the bias of the reporter etc, but we can get a general idea of the news. Just because there may be error in the many books written over long periods of time, that doesn't mean we cant extrapolate the spiritual truths of the books.

Myself, I don't just throw out everything because of error nor do I accept everything because there is truth.

If man was capable of rejecting the Son of God, put him through a sham of a trial and murder him, then church government is capable of fallibility in their production of scripture.
 
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Erik Nelson

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The Flood Story has Noah starting near the water and winding up in the mountains of northern Iraq.

Perhaps that implies some sort of massive tsunami, which drove up the Persian Gulf, inundating most of Persian Gulf shoreline, and washing Noah's ark far to the north, depositing it in the (foothills of the) mountains there ???
 
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redleghunter

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Nah.

Your selected verse is part of the parable of the fig tree. You dont have to believe in a literal Noah story in order to believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
What is the Deist understanding of Messiah?
 
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Erik Nelson

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Cains chronology.png

The Biblical account exactly matches archaeology, qualitatively, with only a slight quantitative discrepancy in dating. The precise sequence of events described in Genesis appears "in the ground", with:
  • Adam & Eve in Eden representing ancient prehistoric Natufian "meso-lithic" hunting & gathering (HG) when the land provided for its few human inhabitants
  • Cain & Enoch building cities representing the initial transition to Ubaid "neo-lithic" farming with the first sedentary settlements
  • Lamech & Tubal-Cain smelting the first metals reflecting the transition to the Uruk "chalco-lithic" copper & bronze age with its onset of organized warfare & violence
  • Noah & Flood reflecting the Jemdet-Nasr period about 3000 BC
The Jemdet-Nasr period reflects the end of the "Halocene Climatic Optimum" (HCO) when worldwide temperatures were warmer than today. The climate cooled after 3000 BC, shifting Monsoon weather patterns, denying rain to northern Africa and causing deserts to spread across that region & encroach upon the Nile.

The Flood story of Noah sounds exactly like a tropical southern or southeastern Asian monsoon season, when it rains regularly for months on end and often precipitates large-scale flooding. And, the end of the HCO circa 3000 BC shifted the Monsoons. Archaeologists have already found evidence of a significant flooding of the Tigris-Euphrates Mesopotamian flood plain about 3000-2900 BC.

Western Russia evidently became inhospitable, because the early proto-Indo-Europeans immigrated into Europe en masse at this time, witnessed archaeologically as the abrupt transition to the Beaker culture across the continent. Marija Gimbutas & Joseph Campbell describe this influx of "Aryans" as akin to an invasion of "old Europe" (Neolithic farming culture of Europe).

If there really was a massive climatic shift at that time, one which ultimately dumped rain on Iraq for months on end until the Tigris & Euphrates flooded far & wide across the well-known Iraqi "flood plain"... then the "Aryans" were "climate refugees". The (summer) Monsoons are driven by the central Asian deserts heating up, causing the atmosphere to rise up, and drawing in moist air masses from over the Indian & Pacific oceans. If there was some sort of desertification of the Aral sea region, the Monsoons might have shifted, flowing north & west up the Persian Gulf, dumping huge volumes of precipitation on Iraq, amidst a strong & persistent southerly wind.

That could have flooded Mesopotamia, and blown Noah's ark northward until it bobbed up against & grounded upon the mountains of northern Iraq.

There might be archaeological evidence of the Flood, in the form of a massive silt deposit, laid down in a single year, when the Flood waters slowly receded back into the Persian Gulf.

_______________________________

Paradise%20Found.JPG
'

Eden plausibly locates to the now-indundated northern reaches of the Persian Gulf, which was as yet dry land in about 6500-6000 BC, according to science. That is really pretty close to the Biblical dating, of 5500 BC. Please please note, that that discrepancy, is almost exactly the same as that between "calibrated vs. uncalibrated radiocarbon years Before Present" -- perhaps suggesting an easy rectification of the two dates?

The rising ocean levels which flooded the Persian Gulf easily explain the Biblical memory that "God expelled Adam & Eve from Eden".
 
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