The Nature of Christ-the Adventist view

[reddogs]

Now my brother Amo,
Well I finally got back home, was a family issue which took some time, and am looking through SOP and scripture to see what I come up with. But here is something from AT Jones which goes along with the line of thought which I was putting down.

"A. T. JONES

Now as to Christ’s not having “like passions” with us: In the Scriptures all the way through he is like us, and with us according to the flesh. He is the seed of David according to the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Don’t go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh; not in the likeness of sinful mind. Do not drag his mind into it. His flesh was our flesh; but the mind was “the mind of Christ Jesus.” Therefore it is written: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” If he had taken our mind, how, then, could we ever have been exhorted to “let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus?” It would have been so already. But what kind of mind is ours? O, it is corrupted with sin also. Look at ourselves in the second chapter of Ephesians, beginning with the first verse, and reading to the third, but the third verse is the one that has this particular point in it:— GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.1

...Adam had the mind of Jesus Christ in the garden; he had the divine mind, — the divine and the human were united, sinlessly. Satan came in, and offered his inducements through the appetite, through the flesh. Adam and Eve forsook the mind of Jesus Christ, the mind of God, that was in them, and accepted the suggestions and the leadings of this other mind. Thus they were enslaved to that, and so are we all. Now Jesus Christ comes into the world, taking our flesh, and in his sufferings and temptations in the wilderness he fights the battle upon the point of appetite. GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.2

Where Adam and Eve failed, and where sin entered, he fought the battle over, and victory was won, and righteousness entered. He having fasted forty days and forty nights, — perfectly helpless, human as ourselves, hungry as we, — there came to him the temptation, “If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.” He answered, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.3

Then Satan took another turn. He argued: You are trusting in the word of God, are you? All right; here the word of God says: “He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.” Now you are trusting in the word of God: you jump off here, for it is written, “He shall give his angels charge concerning thee.” Jesus answered again: “It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.4

Then Satan took Jesus upon an exceeding high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them too, — the glory, the honor, the dignity, — he showed him all that. And there at that moment there was stirred up all the ambition that ever appeared in Napoleon, or Caesar, or Alexander, or all of them put together. But from Jesus still the answer is: “It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.5

Then the devil departed from him for a season, and angels came and ministered unto him. There was the power of Satan conquered in man, on the point of appetite, — just where that power was gained over man. This man at the first had the mind of God; he forsook it, and took the mind of Satan. In Jesus Christ the mind of God is brought back once more to the sons of men; and Satan is conquered. Therefore, it is gloriously true, as the word reads in Dr. Young’s translation and in the German, as it does in the Greek: “We know that the Son of God is come, and has given us a mind.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.6

Read the last words of 1 Corinthians 2:16: “We have the mind of Christ.” Put the two transactions together. The German, and the Danish, and also the Greek are alike. Put the two together: “We know that the Son of God is come, and has given us a mind;” and “We have the mind of Christ.” Thank the Lord!" General Conference Bulletin, vol. 1

 

[reddogs]

Then we see this from SOP:

"As the man is converted by the truth, the work of transformation of character goes on. He has an increased measure of understanding, in becoming a man of obedience to God. The mind and will of God become his will, and by constantly looking to God for counsel, he becomes a man of increased understanding. There is a general development of the mind that is unreservedly placed under the guidance of the Spirit of God.

This is not a one-sided education, which develops a one-sided character; but there is revealed a harmoniously developed character. Weaknesses that have been seen in the powerless, vacillating character are overcome, and continual devotion and piety bring the man in such close relation to Jesus Christ that he has the mind of Christ. He is one with Christ, having soundness and strength of principle, and clearness of perception, which is that wisdom that comes from God, who is the source of all light and understanding.

The grace of God has fallen upon the humble, obedient, conscientious soul like the Sun of righteousness, strengthening the mental faculties, and in the most astonishing manner making those who long to use their capacity in the Master's service, small though it may be, strong continually by obedience and practice, and grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and be bearers of much fruit to the glory of God, in good works. So that the men of learning and of high accomplishments have learned most precious lessons from the precepts and examples of the unlearned, as the world would call them. But could they have a deeper sight, it would be seen that they had obtained knowledge in the highest graded school, even the school of Jesus Christ.... The opening of God's Word is followed by remarkable opening in strengthening a man's faculties; for the entrance of God's Word is the application of divine truth to the heart, purifying and refining the soul through the agency of the Holy Spirit.—The Review and Herald, July 19, 1887.

By beholding we are to become changed; and as we meditate upon the perfections of the divine Model, we shall desire to become wholly transformed, and renewed in the image of His purity. It is by faith in the Son of God that transformation takes place in the character, and the child of wrath becomes the child of God. He passes from death unto life; he becomes spiritual and discerns spiritual things. The wisdom of God enlightens his mind, and he beholds wondrous things out of His law.... In becoming a man of obedience to God, he has the mind of Christ, and the will of God becomes his will.

He who places himself unreservedly under the guidance of the Spirit of God will find that his mind expands and develops. He obtains an education in the service of God which is not one-sided and deficient, developing a one-sided character, but one which results in symmetry and completeness. Weaknesses that have been manifested in a vacillating will and powerless character are overcome, for continual devotion and piety bring the man in such close relation to Christ that he has the mind of Christ. He is one with Christ, having soundness and strength of principle.—Selected Messages 1:337-338.

But the infinite sacrifice of God in giving Jesus, His beloved Son, to become a sacrifice for sin, enables Him to say, without violating one principle of His government: “Yield yourself up to Me; give Me that will; take it from the control of Satan, and I will take possession of it; then I can work in you to will and to do of My good pleasure.” When He gives you the mind of Christ, your will becomes as His will, and your character is transformed to be like Christ's character.—Testimonies for the Church 5:515 (1889).

 

[Amo2]

Now my brother Amo,
Well I finally got back home, was a family issue which took some time, and am looking through SOP and scripture to see what I come up with. But here is something from AT Jones which goes along with the line of thought which I was putting down.

"A. T. JONES

Now as to Christ’s not having “like passions” with us: In the Scriptures all the way through he is like us, and with us according to the flesh. He is the seed of David according to the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Don’t go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh; not in the likeness of sinful mind. Do not drag his mind into it. His flesh was our flesh; but the mind was “the mind of Christ Jesus.” Therefore it is written: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” If he had taken our mind, how, then, could we ever have been exhorted to “let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus?” It would have been so already. But what kind of mind is ours? O, it is corrupted with sin also. Look at ourselves in the second chapter of Ephesians, beginning with the first verse, and reading to the third, but the third verse is the one that has this particular point in it:— GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.1

...Adam had the mind of Jesus Christ in the garden; he had the divine mind, — the divine and the human were united, sinlessly. Satan came in, and offered his inducements through the appetite, through the flesh. Adam and Eve forsook the mind of Jesus Christ, the mind of God, that was in them, and accepted the suggestions and the leadings of this other mind. Thus they were enslaved to that, and so are we all. Now Jesus Christ comes into the world, taking our flesh, and in his sufferings and temptations in the wilderness he fights the battle upon the point of appetite. GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.2

Where Adam and Eve failed, and where sin entered, he fought the battle over, and victory was won, and righteousness entered. He having fasted forty days and forty nights, — perfectly helpless, human as ourselves, hungry as we, — there came to him the temptation, “If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.” He answered, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.3

Then Satan took another turn. He argued: You are trusting in the word of God, are you? All right; here the word of God says: “He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.” Now you are trusting in the word of God: you jump off here, for it is written, “He shall give his angels charge concerning thee.” Jesus answered again: “It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.4

Then Satan took Jesus upon an exceeding high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them too, — the glory, the honor, the dignity, — he showed him all that. And there at that moment there was stirred up all the ambition that ever appeared in Napoleon, or Caesar, or Alexander, or all of them put together. But from Jesus still the answer is: “It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.5

Then the devil departed from him for a season, and angels came and ministered unto him. There was the power of Satan conquered in man, on the point of appetite, — just where that power was gained over man. This man at the first had the mind of God; he forsook it, and took the mind of Satan. In Jesus Christ the mind of God is brought back once more to the sons of men; and Satan is conquered. Therefore, it is gloriously true, as the word reads in Dr. Young’s translation and in the German, as it does in the Greek: “We know that the Son of God is come, and has given us a mind.” GCB February 25, 1895, page 327.6

Read the last words of 1 Corinthians 2:16: “We have the mind of Christ.” Put the two transactions together. The German, and the Danish, and also the Greek are alike. Put the two together: “We know that the Son of God is come, and has given us a mind;” and “We have the mind of Christ.” Thank the Lord!" General Conference Bulletin, vol. 1

Yes, Adam had the mind of Christ which we the fallen had lost. Christ though, did not ever have the mind or nature of Adam before the fall. This is backward thinking. I agree that we should leave the mind of Christ the man out of this, as it is part of the mystery we shall certainly not understand, this side of heaven. Which of us knows the mind of another, let alone our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as He accomplished the mystery of Godliness in fallen human flesh. In salvation we seek to have the mind of Christ, not that of Adam before the fall. The mind of Adam before the fall fell. The mind of Christ having become one with fallen humanity never fell, and thus condemned sin in the flesh.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

There was and is no need to condemn sin in un-fallen flesh of course. Nor would doing so be salvation for those of us having fallen flesh, would it? Whose flesh did Christ come to crucify? That of the fallen, us, or that of the un-fallen, not us?

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

It was our bodies of sin that needed to be destroyed, not Adam's before the fall. How all of this pertains to the mind I do not know. Yet the scripture is clear -

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Amo2]

Then we see this from SOP:

"As the man is converted by the truth, the work of transformation of character goes on. He has an increased measure of understanding, in becoming a man of obedience to God. The mind and will of God become his will, and by constantly looking to God for counsel, he becomes a man of increased understanding. There is a general development of the mind that is unreservedly placed under the guidance of the Spirit of God.

This is not a one-sided education, which develops a one-sided character; but there is revealed a harmoniously developed character. Weaknesses that have been seen in the powerless, vacillating character are overcome, and continual devotion and piety bring the man in such close relation to Jesus Christ that he has the mind of Christ. He is one with Christ, having soundness and strength of principle, and clearness of perception, which is that wisdom that comes from God, who is the source of all light and understanding.

The grace of God has fallen upon the humble, obedient, conscientious soul like the Sun of righteousness, strengthening the mental faculties, and in the most astonishing manner making those who long to use their capacity in the Master's service, small though it may be, strong continually by obedience and practice, and grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and be bearers of much fruit to the glory of God, in good works. So that the men of learning and of high accomplishments have learned most precious lessons from the precepts and examples of the unlearned, as the world would call them. But could they have a deeper sight, it would be seen that they had obtained knowledge in the highest graded school, even the school of Jesus Christ.... The opening of God's Word is followed by remarkable opening in strengthening a man's faculties; for the entrance of God's Word is the application of divine truth to the heart, purifying and refining the soul through the agency of the Holy Spirit.—The Review and Herald, July 19, 1887.

By beholding we are to become changed; and as we meditate upon the perfections of the divine Model, we shall desire to become wholly transformed, and renewed in the image of His purity. It is by faith in the Son of God that transformation takes place in the character, and the child of wrath becomes the child of God. He passes from death unto life; he becomes spiritual and discerns spiritual things. The wisdom of God enlightens his mind, and he beholds wondrous things out of His law.... In becoming a man of obedience to God, he has the mind of Christ, and the will of God becomes his will.

He who places himself unreservedly under the guidance of the Spirit of God will find that his mind expands and develops. He obtains an education in the service of God which is not one-sided and deficient, developing a one-sided character, but one which results in symmetry and completeness. Weaknesses that have been manifested in a vacillating will and powerless character are overcome, for continual devotion and piety bring the man in such close relation to Christ that he has the mind of Christ. He is one with Christ, having soundness and strength of principle.—Selected Messages 1:337-338.

But the infinite sacrifice of God in giving Jesus, His beloved Son, to become a sacrifice for sin, enables Him to say, without violating one principle of His government: “Yield yourself up to Me; give Me that will; take it from the control of Satan, and I will take possession of it; then I can work in you to will and to do of My good pleasure.” When He gives you the mind of Christ, your will becomes as His will, and your character is transformed to be like Christ's character.—Testimonies for the Church 5:515 (1889).

Amen.

 

[reddogs]

Yes, Adam had the mind of Christ which we the fallen had lost. Christ though, did not ever have the mind or nature of Adam before the fall. This is backward thinking. I agree that we should leave the mind of Christ the man out of this, as it is part of the mystery we shall certainly not understand, this side of heaven. Which of us knows the mind of another, let alone our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as He accomplished the mystery of Godliness in fallen human flesh. In salvation we seek to have the mind of Christ, not that of Adam before the fall. The mind of Adam before the fall fell. The mind of Christ having become one with fallen humanity never fell, and thus condemned sin in the flesh.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

There was and is no need to condemn sin in un-fallen flesh of course. Nor would doing so be salvation for those of us having fallen flesh, would it? Whose flesh did Christ come to crucify? That of the fallen, us, or that of the un-fallen, not us?

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

It was our bodies of sin that needed to be destroyed, not Adam's before the fall. How all of this pertains to the mind I do not know. Yet the scripture is clear -

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Christ was born it says when Mary was found with child, "of the Holy Ghost'. Do you think He would be given a mind full of sin and predisposed to iniquity, of course not. It was one that Adam was given, not full of lust or evil desires, one before the fall but still like Adam able to be tempted and sin, thus the true test of the temptation brought by the devil in the wilderness, otherwise it was just a farce, a charade played out with no real test. This change, the transformation, the new heart created that David spoke of, the born again experience we must go through that Christ spoke of, on the road to sanctification that SOP unveils..

When we turn to Christ fully we are justified by faith, but we then have to be sanctified by the power of the Holy Spirit, and this is a free gift available to every man, thus Christ has no advantage, we stand at the same place with this 'mind of Christ' given us. We then come before God, transformed with a new heart, perfect, and able to stand just before His judgement rather than 'filthy rags' we have of self.

 

[Amo2]

It was one that Adam was given, not full of lust or evil desires, one before the fall but still like Adam able to be tempted and sin, thus the true test of the temptation brought by the devil in the wilderness, otherwise it was just a farce, a charade played out with no real test. This change, the transformation, the new heart created that David spoke of, the born again experience we must go through that Christ spoke of, on the road to sanctification that SOP unveils..

The above is extra biblical. Christ was not of the seed of Adam before the fall, He was of the seed of Abraham and David.

Jhn 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

No, but Christ became one with those He came to save, not Adam before the fall who needed no salvation. He came and conquered sin and the sinner in the flesh, not as another un-fallen Adam who needs no salvation. When you say He was given the mind of Adam before the fall, you are bringing His mind into the discussion. Have you not already said, leave His mind out of this?

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Our Lord condemned sin in the flesh, by living in sinful flesh without sinning. By sacrificing the desires of sinful flesh all His life long, and then finally altogether at the cross.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

His body was our body. He came to sacrifice our sinful bodies, not the sinless body or mind of Adam before the fall. We need salvation from ourselves, Adam before the fall did not. Now we may choose to enter that sacrifice as well in picking up our crosses and following our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If or when we will walk by the Spirit, we condemn or crucify the flesh.

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mrk 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mrk 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to destroy the body of sin, not the body of Adam before the fall. Our Lord was made like unto His brethren in all things, yet without sin. He became what we are to deliver such unto death, that we might pick up our crosses and follow Him unto eternal life. I will leave His mind out of this, as it is a mystery we will certainly not understand this side of heaven. Nevertheless our minds are a crucial part of our sinful natures, and if our Lord did not have to overcome the mind of those of a sinful nature, then He did not really conquer or condemn sin in the flesh, since our minds are so intricately connected to ur full being. How, I do not know, yet our Lord was fully God and fully man yet without sin. Not fully God and fully sinless Adam before the fall, with the mind of Adam. Not so, Adam had the mind of Christ before the fall, Christ never had the mind of or body of Adam. Thus we are to have the mind of Christ as well, being redeemed unto our originally intended unity with our Lord.

Php 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Yet this was but the beginning of His condescension! It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature even when Adam stood in innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by 4000 years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the law of heredity. These results were shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our temptations and give us the example of a sinless life. (From Heaven With Love, Only the Shepherds Cared, pg. 28)

Satan had pointed to Adam's sin as proof that God's law could not be obeyed. In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing full vigor of mind and body. Surrounded with the glories of Eden, he was in daily communion with heavenly beings.
It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For 4000 years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation. (From Heaven With Love, Satan Determined to Prevail, pg. 71)

 

[reddogs]

The seed, the flesh was Adam after the fall. But the mind had no propensity to sin, no thoughts of iniquity, it was the the mind, the thinking, the reasoning that Adam was given before the fall. I cant access the SOP or text again as am on my Pad on another trip to see a someone in the family that is on their deathbed.

Since the Pandemic its been one after another and now its family. One died and another has taken to bed, and now we just found out another is giving up. I understand why Christ gave the counsel to not let even the burial of father or mother to turn us from our true task. I cannot keep them alive one second longer, I can only hope to reach in time to give them some comfort and encouragement in their last hour and pray to see them in the kingdom.

When I get back I hope to give SOP and text and we can go over it together, my brother...

 

[Amo2]

The seed, the flesh was Adam after the fall. But the mind had no propensity to sin, no thoughts of iniquity, it was the the mind, the thinking, the reasoning that Adam was given before the fall. I cant access the SOP or text again as am on my Pad on another trip to see a someone in the family that is on their deathbed.

Since the Pandemic its been one after another and now its family. One died and another has taken to bed, and now we just found out another is giving up. I understand why Christ gave the counsel to not let even the burial of father or mother to turn us from our true task. I cannot keep them alive one second longer, I can only hope to reach in time to give them some comfort and encouragement in their last hour and pray to see them in the kingdom.

When I get back I hope to give SOP and text and we can go over it together, my brother...

Our minds are flesh and part of our bodies. Our Lord was made like unto His brethren in all things. Being sinless however, He could not have ever developed a habit of sin, and therefore any propensity due to such. Inherited propensities might be a different story, even if He had them, He never considered or acted upon them. Nevertheless, temptation comes from without as well as within, and our Lord certainly battled temptation from without. In a manner, and of an intensity no doubt, far above and beyond that of which we are able to endure. Praise God that -

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

This topic is much like that of the Father , Son, and Holy ghost, in that it is a mystery not fully explained in scripture. The deeper you dig into it, and more intricately you try to define it, the more complex and unresolved it may become. We will probably not come to complete agreement upon the subject. Nor do I feel we need to, or that either of our salvation depends upon it.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God bless.

 

[reddogs]

Our minds are flesh and part of our bodies. Our Lord was made like unto His brethren in all things. Being sinless however, He could not have ever developed a habit of sin, and therefore any propensity due to such. Inherited propensities might be a different story, even if He had them, He never considered or acted upon them. Nevertheless, temptation comes from without as well as within, and our Lord certainly battled temptation from without. In a manner, and of an intensity no doubt, far above and beyond that of which we are able to endure. Praise God that -

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

This topic is much like that of the Father , Son, and Holy ghost, in that it is a mystery not fully explained in scripture. The deeper you dig into it, and more intricately you try to define it, the more complex and unresolved it may become. We will probably not come to complete agreement upon the subject. Nor do I feel we need to, or that either of our salvation depends upon it.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God bless.

But our thinking rises above the flesh, it contains the essence of who we are, it is where the Holy Spirit tranforms, or as David asks, creates a new heart. It is where we are born again, not in the flesh, but our minds, and sanctified and made perfect before God.

Its not fully explained, yet we are given the pieces to understand how our characters are changed, our thoughts cleansed and the fruits of the Spirit flow out from it. Its all there, we just have to grasp and comprehend how it all comes together. Lets go over what scripture gives us, which I think you know well, but lets look to see if what it supports that Christ had a mind that was as what Adam was given and how the robe of Christ righteousness/mind of Christ comes into play.

We read
1 Peter 2:24
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Here we are given an example of one who did 'no sin' that we should follow and commit ourselves to God, 'that we being dead to sin' like Christ 'should live unto righteousness' and it adds 'by whose stripes ye were healed'.

So what I read is that it says we should reach the standard of no sin and be dead to sin and live to the level of righteousness that Christ, who heals or (cleanses) us from sin. We see this clearly in this verse.

1 John 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

This confirms not only that He cleanses us but was manifested for this, and we saw how He was manifested in Matthew and we see also in Luke.

Matthew 1:18-20
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Holy Ghost would not have conceived a child with a mind of sin and corruption of iniquity, and we see that it says a 'holy thing'. And Gods Word is clear that this child who was Christ is not made with a mind after the fall, it is 'without blemish and without spot'.

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

 

[reddogs]

Now lets look at SOP..

'Such was not the size, strength, and perfection of the human race when Jesus was born into the world. Four thousand years of reckless violation of the divine laws of nature had greatly reduced the size and impaired the strength and perfection of the human body. Nerves and muscles had been weakened through centuries of indulgence. By permitting the law of heredity toperate in His incarnation, Jesus inherited, from the side of His mother, a body comparable in size to that of the bodies of the men of His day, and was subject to the infirmities and weaknesses of other men. Thus, speaking prophetically of Jesus when He was here on earth, Isaiah declares that He was "a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief," that "surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows" (Isa. 53:3, 4). Referring to this declaration, Matthew says of Jesus: "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses" (Matt. 8:17). Weymouth's translation reads: "He took on Him our weaknesses, and bore the burden of our diseases." * Thus in this sense the second Adam was not physically identical with the first Adam. It was also in this sense of depreciation in size and vitality that Christ by the law of heredity is said to have taken upon Himself our "fallen nature" (The Desire of Ages, p. 112), "our nature in its deteriorated condition" (Signs of the Times, June 9, 1898).

Notice it is the physical side of the body that is weakened by the four thousand years after the fall, and it even states 'It was also in this sense of depreciation in size and vitality that Christ by the law of heredity is said to have taken upon Himself our "fallen nature" '

Now we see this in SOP..

'Be careful, exceedingly careful, as to how you dwell upon the human nature of Christ. Do not set Him before the people as a man with the propensities of sin. He is the second Adam. The first Adam was created a pure, sinless being, without a taint of sin upon Him; he was in the image of God. He could fall, and he did fall through transgressing. Because of sin his posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. He could have sinned; He could have fallen, but not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity. He was assailed with temptations in the wilderness, as Adam was assailed with temptations in Eden.—The SDA Bible Commentary, Ellen G. White Comments, on John 1:1-3, 14, p. 1128.

He did not have a mind with propensities to sin and was the 'second Adam', or came up at the same level as Adam at Creation. He was assailed by temptation as 'Adam was assailed with temptations in Eden,' not in a place or event after the fall. We see it in many other places in SOP,

"He was born without a taint of sin, but came into the world in like manner as the human family."—Letter 97, 1898. Quoted in Questions on Doctrine, p. 659.

He [Christ] was to take His position at the head of humanity by taking the nature but not the sinfulness of man.—The SDA Bible Commentary, Ellen G. White Comments, on Heb. 2:14-18, p. 925.

He was a mighty petitioner, not possessing the passions of our human, fallen natures, but compassed with like infirmities, tempted in all points even as we are.—Testimonies, vol. 2, p. 509.

He is a brother in our infirmities, but not in possessing like passions.—Ibid., p. 202.

Not a taint of corruption was upon Him.— Quoted in Questions on Doctrine, p. 61.

When Christ bowed His head and died, He bore the pillars of Satan's kingdom with Him to the earth. He vanquished Satan in the same nature over which in Eden Satan obtained the victory. The enemy was overcome by Christ in His human nature. The power of the Saviour's Godhead was hidden. He overcame in human nature, relying upon God for power. This is the privilege of all. In proportion to our faith will be our victory (The Youth's Instructor, April 25, 1901). 5BC 1108.6

We can overcome, just like Christ so He was given no advantage that we cannot have, now how far we are in our road to sanctification is the next question. As we have the example of Enoch who walked with God and was taken up and we have the example of the thief on the cross who had a much more limited time with Christ and yet promised a place in the kingdom.