Luke 21:34-36 = 1Thessalonians4:15-18. That resurrection coinciding with the rapture.
There are addtional group resurrections that follow. Revelation 20, resurrection of the martyred tribulation saints. Revelation 20, resurrection of all the remaining dead for the Great White Throne judgment. Stick with Jesus. Look up! your redemption draws near.
Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
- Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.
- Partial Preterism: Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.
- Amillennialism: "no millennium", rejects the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age.
Revelation 11:Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
You cannot have a "time of the judgment of the dead" in the passage below, without a bodily resurrection of the dead, as found in John 5:27-30.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
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I agree, one can't have the time of the dead, that they be judged, without it involving a bodily resurrection. What is in question though, who are the dead meaning in this context? All of the dead or just some of the dead? If we read on in that chapter, there are obviously some unsaved folks on earth not even physically dead yet, meaning at the time of the intial sounding of the 7th trumpet. Why should we not take that into account? How can it be the time for them to be judged as well if they are not even physically dead yet when it initially becomes the time of the dead, that they be judged?
The 2 verses you refer to; Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8, both just inform us that to God one day in Heaven is equivalent to a thousand earth years. They do not say the 1000 years isn't literal at all.And in Psalms and in one of the letters of St. Peter (in the context of the return of the Lord, no less), the Bible actually says that we are not to necessarily take 1000 years literally.
And while the Bible actually says that Lazarus and the boy were dead, it NEVER actually says that they were resurrected the way we will all rise on the Last Day.
That's why it was merely a temporary resuscitation for them.
Or is it just to YOU that the Word of the Lord has come?
1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the final Judgment, at the end of the Millennium. Proved by the sequence of 1 Corinthians 15:23-24; First Christ resurrected, then the martyrs at His Return, Rev 20:4, then comes the final end, when the Last Trumpet will sound and all who have ever lived will stand before God on His Great White Throne. Revelation 20:11-15. Those whose names are in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those who are not will go to the Lake of Fire.I don't know which false teachers you think I am listening to, the fact I am basing my conclusions on my own reading of the texts involved.
There is no last trump taking place a thousand years or so after the return of Christ. The last trump is the return of Christ, as in His 2nd and final coming. That is when saints put on immortality, in the twinkling of an eye according to the text. If they already do that at the 2nd coming, put on immortality, then do that again at the great white throne judgment, how is one to make sense out of any of that? That equals putting on immortality twice.
There is no way around it, regardless when one thinks the thousand years are, the events concerning the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15:50-57, this precedes the event of the great white throne judgment.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
In context----afterward they that are Christ's at his coming---this is referring to those in 1 Corinthians 15:50-57. And verse 23 clearly indicates the resurrection of the dead involving those that are Christ's, IOW the saved dead, that this takes place at His coming, IOW at His 2nd and final coming. Therefore 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 should be interpreted with 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 in mind---like such.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Bab2, you are not paying attention to the first part of the verse. "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come". The judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 is not the Great White Throne judgement in Revelation 20.You cannot have a "time of the judgment of the dead" in the passage below, without a bodily resurrection of the dead, as found in John 5:27-30.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
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The judgement of the dead in Revelation 11:18, is the judgment of them who have died in Christ for rewards, for what they have done for the cause of Christ. To take place in heaven, while the earth goes through the Great Tribulation, as God's wrath is taken out on the nations.
1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the final Judgment, at the end of the Millennium. Proved by the sequence of 1 Corinthians 15:23-24; First Christ resurrected, then the martyrs at His Return, Rev 20:4, then comes the final end, when the Last Trumpet will sound and all who have ever lived will stand before God on His Great White Throne. Revelation 20:11-15. Those whose names are in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those who are not will go to the Lake of Fire.
Then Jesus will hand the Kingdom back to God and only then, will Death be no more.
David, the last three trumpets signify three woes.The timing of the 7th trumpet would have to be post trib. I
Bab2, you are not paying attention to the first part of the verse. "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come". The judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 is not the Great White Throne judgement in Revelation 20.
The judgement of the dead in Revelation 11:18, is the judgment of them who have died in Christ for rewards, for what they have done for the cause of Christ. To take place in heaven, while the earth goes through the Great Tribulation, as God's wrath is taken out on the nations.
You are misapplying what is said in those passages. Revelation 11:18 is timed to begin when the vials of God's wrath are poured out on the nations.You are not paying attention to Christ's words in John 5:27-30, or Paul's words in 2 Timothy 4:1, if you think there are multiple judgments of the dead.
Keep pretending the Book of Revelation is in chronological order, if you want to make your chart work.
Well, the 7th vial will take place after the sixth seal event takes place. The other vials lead up to the sixth seal event. I show the 7th vial on my chart. You mouse over the chart, any particular part, click to zoom in.I tend to think the vials of wrath occur during the 6th seal. When comparing the 6th seal events with that of the events recorded in the Discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, those accounts place the 6th seal events after the GT, yet just prior to the 2nd coming.
The Last Trumpet sound happens at the last event of God's decreed time for mankind as humans on earth. Thinking otherwise is illogical and actually impossible. Will there be no trumpets during the Millennium?Unless one can prove the last trump and the GWTJ are the exact same event,
The entire premise is wrong. No such thing as "timing" on this issue. No such thing as a one or two time event called "The Resurrection."What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?
The rapture is only half of the event. The other half is the resurrection of them who's bodies are asleep in Christ. So all of the bodies will be alive when they meet Jesus in the air. "Come up hither" not "stay on the earth".Your determination to have immortality before the GWT, when the Book of Life will be opened, is a false teaching upon the lie of the 'rapture' and all who fondly imagine they will be immortalized when Jesus Returns.
The Last Trumpet sound happens at the last event of God's decreed time for mankind as humans on earth. Thinking otherwise is illogical and actually impossible. Will there be no trumpets during the Millennium?
I stand by the truth that Paul was prophesying about the final Judgment AFTER the Mill, in 1 Cor 15:50-56. ONLY then is Death done away with. Proved by how there will be death during the Mill. Isaiah 65:20
Your determination to have immortality before the GWT, when the Book of Life will be opened, is a false teaching upon the lie of the 'rapture' and all who fondly imagine they will be immortalized when Jesus Returns.
The rapture is only half of the event. The other half is the resurrection of them who's bodies are asleep in Christ. So all of the bodies will be alive when they meet Jesus in the air. "Come up hither" not "stay on the earth".
The soul receives eternal life when a person receives Jesus.
The redemption of the body to life, it's immortality, incorruptible, of Christians whether asleep or alive at the time, is by the rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-18.
Followed by the redemption of the bodies of the martyred tribulation saints.
Followed by them at the Great White Throne Judgment, who's name are found in the book of life.
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