The narrow way?

[TheGloryisHere]

Have you heard the one about the new convert that was pulled over for going 50 miles over the speed limit and his licenses was expired? He protested the ticket and on his court date he explained to the judge that He was a new creature on the inside and that it wasnt him that was speeding. He further explained, "It was my flesh, not the real me inside". The judge responded, "O.K. your spirit is free to go, but I am going to have to sentence your flesh to spend time in jail".

Imagine when we stand before God, the righteous and holy Judge and try to use this as our defense.

LOL! Good one. And the Judge says, "Fine your spirit is free to enter Heaven, but your soul and body will be destroyed."
"Next."

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

You're spirit can't sin. But, we are a three part being, not just a spirit, and are responsible for what our soul and our body does, otherwise everyone would continue acting like the heathen they were before Christ, and not becoming formed into the image of Jesus, as we are commanded to do.

Correct. Giving in to the flesh is sin.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

The key word here would be "entangled". Since the new believer has been freed from their bondage to the law of sin and death and they are a new creature it cannot be said that a failure of the flesh is entanglement.

Entanglement would be the continued ignoring of the voice of Holy Spirit and getting to the place where His voice is no longer heard.

Yes, yes, that's it exactly.

 

[Tamara224]

So, we cannot sin, because 'we' are the spirit of Christ in us. We are responsible for the flesh, but if our flesh sins, it was the flesh and not us? Do I have that correct?

Not quite. The Holy Spirit within us is the Spirit of Christ inhabiting in us (our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit). We also have a new spirit when we are born again. Our new spirit is not the Holy Spirit, it is our spirit reborn into a new creation.

Someday, our bodies will also be new - we will put on incorruptible at the resurrection and then we will no longer battle the flesh. That is our hope for the future. Amen!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

What really gets me is God puts this sin right up there with homosexuality

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Yes my friends sin is sin and sin will send you to hell I don't care if one time you said a little prayer sin will send you to hell. OSAS is a lie from hell Satan is very deceptive and wants to lead God's blessed creation to hell. That is why he concocted this lie. Don't believe him. He wants you so bad he can taste you. Submit yourselves to God and resist the devil.

None of this discussion has been about OSAS. It's about our Spirit overcoming our flesh and not allowing the flesh to rule. Would you not agree that the flesh is not supposed to rule how we live? That is what we are talking about.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

<B>

</B>If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us".
Sorry, but I am certain this IS in the present tense (the words highlighted).
​

None of us said that our flesh never does wrong. We've said that several times....did you miss it?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Define sinner? Is an adulterer a sinner? Is someone who briefly has thoughts of adultery in their mind, a sinner? If you or I have those thoughts, are we not, in fact, sinners? This man who was just sentenced for all of the child molesting crimes, if he had recieved Christ before this all happened, Jesus would be perfectly cool with it?

there seems to be no hope. Of course Jesus would not be cool with it. Are you even reading what is written? Are you just seeing that we've answered and quickly typing up responses without reading? It certaintly appears such.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

There is such a thing as a backslider. If you don't believe that I can introduce you to my family. And yes a backslider is a sinner. They were saved at one time. Sin can destroy a person I have seen it with my own eyes. Guard yourself. You are right it is your spirit that is saved. Your flesh still has the ability to sin. If you do not keep it under control then one can backslide.

One does not backslide by accident. It is a very deliberate act of defiance and refusal to do as God says. God does not "lose" us like we may lose our earrings. We choose to walk away. God said, "I will NEVER leave you".

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Have you heard the one about the new convert that was pulled over for going 50 miles over the speed limit and his licenses was expired? He protested the ticket and on his court date he explained to the judge that He was a new creature on the inside and that it wasnt him that was speeding. He further explained, "It was my flesh, not the real me inside". The judge responded, "O.K. your spirit is free to go, but I am going to have to sentence your flesh to spend time in jail".

Imagine when we stand before God, the righteous and holy Judge and try to use this as our defense.

Our flesh won't be in heaven with us We still reap what we sow. If we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction but if we sow to the spirit we will reap things of the Spirit. A few seeds to the flesh here and there does not constitute a full harvest of bad seed. When we see God we will be tested by fire. What burns up was bad seed. What is left was good seed. We do not lose our salvation because some of our works were bad.

 

[probinson]

Does Jesus, maybe, see the heart? Is it possible she was terrified, so wishing she had never sinned before God, and taking full responsibility for her sin in her heart?

Sure, but now we're speculating. The point is, the woman did not ask Jesus for forgiveness, and yet He said He did not condemn her. I find that intriguing.

 

[probinson]

Imagine when we stand before God, the righteous and holy Judge and try to use this as our defense.

I don't know about you, but my only defense is the shed blood of Jesus.

 

[PastorJoey]

LOL! Good one. And the Judge says, "Fine your spirit is free to enter Heaven, but your soul and body will be destroyed."
"Next."

True, salvation is not of works, but neither is it by neglect.

What are we going to do with these verses?

Jam 2:14-20 KJV
(14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
(17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
(18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
(19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jam 2:24 KJV
(24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jam 2:26 KJV
(26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Tamara224]

True, maybe they aren't really Christians, those who ask Jesus to come in merely to get an entrance into Heaven, but then do their own thing. I honestly don't know.

I think of the parable of the sower... some of the seed fell on shallow soil and sprang up quickly, but it had no roots and when the sun came it burned the plant up and it withered away.

Maybe at the moment of the prayer, they were truly saved and maybe they lost that salvation. I really don't know. Somehow I think that they were never truly born again - rather, their growth was false. A plant without roots is destined to wither.

But, imo, that's really not all that important to us. We all know that we are not that plant... we all have the assurance of salvation, we've all heard the Holy Spirit. So why should we worry that someone else will count as cheap what we hold so dear?

And I do believe in encouraging each other and declaring who we are in Christ, and showing the scriptures that prove we are, but I also want to make it clear to pretender Christians that there are no such loop holes as they think. Once saved always saved is mine because I don't want out, ever. But, I'm a real Christian, not a pretender, just to keep from going to hell.

If that makes sense....

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Unfortunately, there will be those who, when judgment comes, say "Lord, Lord, didn't we ...." and Jesus will say to them "Depart from me, I never knew you."

They who thought they could get into the sheepfold another way (by their own works). The pretend Christians...

 

[probinson]

There is obviously a fine balance between grace and works.

It is imperative that we understand that our salvation has not been "earned". It is only through the sacrifice of Jesus that any of us are righteous.

At the same time, that doesn't mean we should sit around on our thumbs because we think it's "works", nor should we just keep on doing our own thing because we have grace no matter how we act or behave.

The balance between the 2 extremes is what must be found.

 

[PastorJoey]

I don't know about you, but my only defense is the shed blood of Jesus.

I agree Probinson. My concern is that the WOF people [I am one of them] as a whole have completely missed the biblical place that works has in our salvation.

We have been taught that adding works to our faith means that if we are feeling sick we should confess we are healed or get up and walk around our bed three times as a "corresponding action".

When the bible talks about our "faith" it is often speaking of our christianity as a whole [our faith in Christ as Saviour] and not just one or two parts of it.

If we truly had faith in Christ we would obey His commands.
Luk 6:46 KJV
(46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
The Holy Spirit spoke up inside me one day and said, "It is true that salvation is not of works, but neither is it by neglect".

 

[jrlinz]

there seems to be no hope. Of course Jesus would not be cool with it. Are you even reading what is written? Are you just seeing that we've answered and quickly typing up responses without reading? It certaintly appears such.

Sure glad you are not rude like I am.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Sure glad you are not rude like I am.

me too

 

[Tenebrae]

One does not backslide by accident. It is a very deliberate act of defiance and refusal to do as God says. God does not "lose" us like we may lose our earrings. We choose to walk away. God said, "I will NEVER leave you".

Someone in another forum put it this way, we dont loose our salvation, however we can chose to reject that gift from God

 

[PastorJoey]

Someone in another forum put it this way, we dont loose our salvation, however we can chose to reject that gift from God

Thats good.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Someone in another forum put it this way, we dont loose our salvation, however we can chose to reject that gift from God

And yes, we forgive them their limited, human based, vision of God.

Come hell or high water, I will change that!