The narrow way?

[jrlinz]

So, there is no need for him to ask the father for forgiveness, since he already did so previously?

 

[jrlinz]

For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them
2 Peter 2:20-21
What do you think this scripture means, exactly?

 

[probinson]

So, there is no need for him to ask the father for forgiveness, since he already did so previously?

I think we should all live in a state of repentance, ready and willing to change when we give into our flesh, but I don't think that we lose our salvation because of it.

I'm not sure how I feel about those that once repented of their sins and now continually and habitually do wrong things. Should we sin just so grace abounds? God forbid! But at the same time, I understand that I've been made righteous ONLY because of Christ Jesus, and not because I've done anything special to deserve it. All I've done is accepted that free gift of salvation.

I think the church as a whole is much too sin-conscious, and we should all become more conscious of our righteousness through Christ.

 

[probinson]

For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them
2 Peter 2:20-21
What do you think this scripture means, exactly?

It means that if we don't understand that we have been set free from sin, we can become entangled in it once more, which is why it is imperative that we grasp and understand that we CAN NOT sin. It is the sin nature in our flesh, which is not us, that sins.

How many times I have seen someone in a church that a year later says there is no hope for them because they just can't stop sinning, and so they forfeit that relationship with God because they allow sin to entangle them once again.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I think we should all live in a state of repentance, ready and willing to change when we give into our flesh, but I don't think that we lose our salvation because of it.

I'm not sure how I feel about those that once repented of their sins and now continually and habitually do wrong things. Should we sin just so grace abounds? God forbid! But at the same time, I understand that I've been made righteous ONLY because of Christ Jesus, and not because I've done anything special to deserve it. All I've done is accepted that free gift of salvation.

I think the church as a whole is much too sin-conscious, and we should all become more conscious of our righteousness through Christ.

hear, hear!

 

[TheGloryisHere]

This question was not addressed to me, but I will attempt to answer.

No. YOU would not be sinning if you had truly given your life to God and accepted Jesus' sacrifice. What you would be doing is giving into your flesh, which is NOT you.

Does this mean I'm advocating sleeping with other women? Uh, no. It means that just like Paul, you have to overcome your flesh, but the real you is not sinning. You are caving in to the sin nature inside of your flesh, but if you are God's, YOU are not sinning.

When that lustful thought that you keep referencing tries to come to the real you, what do you do? Do you embrace it, or do you quickly rebuke it?

Some people think that this is splitting hairs, but I don't believe it is. The Bible is clear in 1 John 3:9 that if we are born of God, we CAN NOT sin. To understand this, we must understand that our spirit, or the real us, is incapable of sinning, even though we may have to battle with our flesh. But we can put our flesh under. As others have said, God would not have told us to do something we could not accomplish.

Now I have answered the unanswerable question with a direct answer.

In other words, your spirit which is the real you isn't sinning, but you're soul (your mind, will, and emotions) and your body are sinning. But, we are responsible for what our soul and our body does. I don't want my soul and body destroyed and only be in Heaven with my spirit. I think you lose free will that way and just become an odediant spirit. Because your will is in your soul.

Yeah, yeah, too deep. I can't help it. I'm a preacher.

 

[probinson]

I posted this on another thread, and since someone thought it was rep worthy and I think it applies here as well, here it is....
___________________________________________

Romans 7:15-17
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
​

This is the point that I think we need to understand. If I do the thing I hate, it is not "me" doing it. I have been born again, of incorruptible seed. Not only do "I" not sin, the Bible says that if I am born of God, "I" cannot sin;

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
​

"But if you say you don't sin, then you're a liar."

That's not quite what it says;

1 John 1:10
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
​

Yes, I have sinned (past tense), but now that I have confessed my sins, He is faithful and just and has forgiven me.

If I sin, it is no longer I that is sinning. I am not my own. I've been bought with a price, and I can not sin anymore. My flesh can, and I will battle my flesh, but my flesh is not "me". My flesh is a temporary dwelling place while I'm here on this earth.

This is an important distinction, because as long as we see ourselves as sinners, we are not seeing ourselves as God sees us. God sees us as righteous, not sinners. Because it is no longer I that is sinning. My spirit, or the real me, has been born of incorruptible seed and can not sin.

 

[Tamara224]

This question was not addressed to me, but I will attempt to answer.

No. YOU would not be sinning if you had truly given your life to God and accepted Jesus' sacrifice. What you would be doing is giving into your flesh, which is NOT you.

Does this mean I'm advocating sleeping with other women? Uh, no. It means that just like Paul, you have to overcome your flesh, but the real you is not sinning. You are caving in to the sin nature inside of your flesh, but if you are God's, YOU are not sinning.

When that lustful thought that you keep referencing tries to come to the real you, what do you do? Do you embrace it, or do you quickly rebuke it?

Some people think that this is splitting hairs, but I don't believe it is. The Bible is clear in 1 John 3:9 that if we are born of God, we CAN NOT sin. To understand this, we must understand that our spirit, or the real us, is incapable of sinning, even though we may have to battle with our flesh. But we can put our flesh under. As others have said, God would not have told us to do something we could not accomplish.

Now I have answered the unanswerable question with a direct answer.

Well said!! That's the way I view it too. It's not that we no longer struggle with our fleshly man (the old self), it's that our new man does not sin. It's not that we no longer fight the fight and are incapable of messing up - we do sometimes.

But, we should understand that it is our old self that does it (the sin) and not us. And, I agree about the too much focus on sin. Our focus should be on where we want to be, not where we were. If we are always looking back to what is behind (sin) then we are not ever going to move forward.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

Fix your eyes on Jesus and run!

Do we stumble? Yes, sometimes. But not when we have our eyes on Jesus. It's when we get distracted or turn our eyes away.

As brothers and sisters in Christ, we should also build one another up and give one another encouragement along the way. "You can do it!" Sometimes that encouragement also means saying "Hey, it's okay, you stumbled, we've all done it. But you don't have to stay down - you're not out of the race yet." The key is to get back up again and keep running.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

So, Mr. Haggard was not guilty of sin before the Father when his indescretions occurred?

Yes, he was guilty and he did sin.

 

[probinson]

In other words, your spirit which is the real you isn't sinning, but you're soul (your mind, will, and emotions) and your body are sinning. But, we are responsible for what our soul and our body does.

Absolutely we are. But the Bible tells us that we can dominate the flesh, and we don't have to give into it. I think that's what Dods and Quaff and charity are saying. We can overcome this flesh, here and now. God would never have told us to do something that was impossible for us to do.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

The Christ who lives in you cannot sin. We can choose to give into the flesh. But Christ, living in you CANNOT SIN.

You're spirit can't sin. But, we are a three part being, not just a spirit, and are responsible for what our soul and our body does, otherwise everyone would continue acting like the heathen they were before Christ, and not becoming formed into the image of Jesus, as we are commanded to do.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

WE DON'T HAVE TO SIN AT ALL, ESPECIALLY NOT EVERY DAY!

THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT REQUIRES A BELIEVER TO SIN.

True. Just as we don't have to be sick every month, or for some more often than that. Or every winter.

 

[Joy]

Well said!! That's the way I view it too. It's not that we no longer struggle with our fleshly man (the old self), it's that our new man does not sin. It's not that we no longer fight the fight and are incapable of messing up - we do sometimes.

But, we should understand that it is our old self that does it (the sin) and not us. And, I agree about the too much focus on sin. Our focus should be on where we want to be, not where we were. If we are always looking back to what is behind (sin) then we are not ever going to move forward.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

Fix your eyes on Jesus and run!

Do we stumble? Yes, sometimes. But not when we have our eyes on Jesus. It's when we get distracted or turn our eyes away.

As brothers and sisters in Christ, we should also build one another up and give one another encouragement along the way. "You can do it!" Sometimes that encouragement also means saying "Hey, it's okay, you stumbled, we've all done it. But you don't have to stay down - you're not out of the race yet." The key is to get back up again and keep running.

 

[probinson]

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

Fix your eyes on Jesus and run!

Do we stumble? Yes, sometimes. But not when we have our eyes on Jesus. It's when we get distracted or turn our eyes away.

I really like this!

I thought of Peter, walking on the water. As long as Peter kept his eyes on Jesus, he was fine, but as soon as he took his eyes off of Jesus and began to look at his circumstances, he began to sink. But what's even cooler to me is that Jesus didn't say, "Peter, you dummy! You should've kept your eyes on me! Now you're gonna drown!" No, He pulled him up, even though his eyes were in the wrong place.

I believe when we are focusing on our sin, our eyes are in the wrong place, and that is when we begin to sink.

My pastor always says, it's hard to run in a race when you're always looking behind you.

Philippians 3:13
Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,​

 

[~RENEE~]

Quaffer, DOD, CharityAgape, If I were saved today, gave my life to God, accepted Jesus' sacrifice, and slept with a woman otherthan my wife tomorrow, I would be sinning?

This question was not addressed to me, but I will attempt to answer.

No. YOU would not be sinning if you had truly given your life to God and accepted Jesus' sacrifice. What you would be doing is giving into your flesh, which is NOT you. not accomplish.
Now I have answered the unanswerable question with a direct answer.

Good direct answer. No .

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

What really gets me is God puts this sin right up there with homosexuality

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Yes my friends sin is sin and sin will send you to hell I don't care if one time you said a little prayer sin will send you to hell. OSAS is a lie from hell Satan is very deceptive and wants to lead God's blessed creation to hell. That is why he concocted this lie. Don't believe him. He wants you so bad he can taste you. Submit yourselves to God and resist the devil.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Does your Pastor teach you to debate with one liners that you don't give a lick of scripture to back up?

LOL!

 

[jrlinz]

It means that if we don't understand that we have been set free from sin, we can become entangled in it once more, which is why it is imperative that we grasp and understand that we CAN NOT sin. It is the sin nature in our flesh, which is not us, that sins.

How many times I have seen someone in a church that a year later says there is no hope for them because they just can't stop sinning, and so they forfeit that relationship with God because they allow sin to entangle them once again.

For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them

I am sorry, Prob, can you point me to the part that says:

if we don't understand that we have been set free from sin

I don't see this in the scripture at all. I think it very plainly says that if you recieve Christ as your saviour,and are then entangled again in sin, it will be worse for you than if you had never known the truth. Please show me where my interpretation goes afoul?

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I think maybe sometimes it's the presentation... Sometimes the way you write seems very cryptic - I often think you are saying the opposite of what you later explain. Could be just me though.

Naw, I get the same feeling sometimes.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I posted this on another thread, and since someone thought it was rep worthy and I think it applies here as well, here it is....
___________________________________________

Romans 7:15-17
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
​

This is the point that I think we need to understand. If I do the thing I hate, it is not "me" doing it. I have been born again, of incorruptible seed. Not only do "I" not sin, the Bible says that if I am born of God, "I" cannot sin;

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
​

"But if you say you don't sin, then you're a liar."

That's not quite what it says;

1 John 1:10
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
​

Yes, I have sinned (past tense), but now that I have confessed my sins, He is faithful and just and has forgiven me.

If I sin, it is no longer I that is sinning. I am not my own. I've been bought with a price, and I can not sin anymore. My flesh can, and I will battle my flesh, but my flesh is not "me". My flesh is a temporary dwelling place while I'm here on this earth.

This is an important distinction, because as long as we see ourselves as sinners, we are not seeing ourselves as God sees us. God sees us as righteous, not sinners. Because it is no longer I that is sinning. My spirit, or the real me, has been born of incorruptible seed and can not sin.

This is deep, and hasn't got through to me yet. But, I"m sure in time, it will. I don't have a full understanding of those scriptures, yet.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Well said!! That's the way I view it too. It's not that we no longer struggle with our fleshly man (the old self), it's that our new man does not sin. It's not that we no longer fight the fight and are incapable of messing up - we do sometimes.

But, we should understand that it is our old self that does it (the sin) and not us. And, I agree about the too much focus on sin. Our focus should be on where we want to be, not where we were. If we are always looking back to what is behind (sin) then we are not ever going to move forward.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

Fix your eyes on Jesus and run!

Do we stumble? Yes, sometimes. But not when we have our eyes on Jesus. It's when we get distracted or turn our eyes away.

As brothers and sisters in Christ, we should also build one another up and give one another encouragement along the way. "You can do it!" Sometimes that encouragement also means saying "Hey, it's okay, you stumbled, we've all done it. But you don't have to stay down - you're not out of the race yet." The key is to get back up again and keep running.

I understand where you and Pete are coming from... but is this going to make ppl think... well I can do whatever I want, and then tell God, "I'm not sinning. It's my flesh doing the sin." That is a great concern to me as a preacher.