LDS The Mormon Jesus

[Rescued One]

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

But those who have the Holy Spirit don't follow false prophets, false apostles, or false teachers.

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Psalm 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

This describes Mormonism.

 

[Super14LDS]

Hi.
Not sure why you are fixated on creeds when I didn't quote any to you in the first place... my authority is God's word the Bible so let's stick with that. A reminder that this discussion thread is about 'the Mormon Jesus'

You shouldn't have stopped there...
v.32 "and now I commend you to God, and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you the inheritance among all them that are sanctified."
After the warning came the statement of confidence in God's grace toward the elders he was speaking to.

Now let's go to the words of the Head of the Church, the Lord Jesus Himself...
"and I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18. Clearly Jesus had confidence that His church would withstand opposition because He is Lord of His Church!

Jesus said that He was the only One who reveals the Father (Matt. 11:27 and Luke 10:22):
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

So, to know the true Father you must first know the true Jesus. The question is: How do you recognize the true Jesus? Simple, look in the Bible.

May God reveal the truth to you.
Peace to you.

Jesus was put to death and rose again.

So too, His church.

 

[dzheremi]

Garbage. The whole Church itself was never 'put to death' in a manner akin to Christ, though of course many within it are. The baptism of the Church occurred after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ our God, with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

The Church cannot be put to death, as it is the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27; Ephesians 4:12), and Christ has already conquered death, not from this period to that period, but forever.

 

[Super14LDS]

Garbage. The whole Church itself was never 'put to death' in a manner akin to Christ, though of course many within it are. The baptism of the Church occurred after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ our God, with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

The Church cannot be put to death, as it is the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27; Ephesians 4:12), and Christ has already conquered death, not from this period to that period, but forever.

Nope, NOT Garbage; people still die; so too can His church and be resurrected.

Another type and shadow akin to Animal Sacrifice and the Flood being the water baptism of the Earth.

 

[dzheremi]

Please read my post again. I am not claiming that people do not still die (though now that you mention it, this is how death is understood in my own Church's tradition; hence during a portion of the litany for the departed, we pray "For there is no death for your servants, but a departure"). I am saying that Christ cannot die again, as He has conquered death, and as the Church is the body of Christ, it too cannot die.

 

[Revelationswon]

Do Mormons really worship a "different Jesus" as many detractors claim?

Paul warned about “another Jesus” in 2 Corinthians 11:14. He also told the members in Galatia to watch out for anyone who would preach “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6-9)


Modern detractors are in error when they accuse us of worshipping a Jesus different than the one found in the bible. Without question, we teach the same Jesus as taught in the Bible. Perhaps there are those who teach a different Jesus and a counterfeit plan of salvation, but it isn’t the Latter Day Saints.


Let us examine what we can learn about the “real” Jesus from the Bible. Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth (Col. 1:16) under the direction of God the Father (Heb. 1:1-3). Jesus lived with the Father before this earth life and prayed to his Father that he might return and have the same glory with the Father that he had before the world was (JOHN 17:5). Jesus was foreordained from before the foundation of the world to be the Redeemer of the world (1 Peter 1:20). Jesus was and is the first born in the spirit world (Col. 1:15, the only begotten son of God in the flesh, and the first individual to be resurrected (Col. 1:15).


Jesus was born of Mary after the Holy Ghost came upon her and she was overshadowed by the power of the Highest (Luke 1:35). He was thus called the Son of God, the Only Begotten Son.


Our Savior prayed to the Father with these words, “Our Father which art in heaven” (Matt. 6:9-13). Earlier at His baptism and later on the Mount of Transfiguration, our Heavenly Father’s voice, coming from Heaven, testified that Christ was His Beloved Son (Matt.3:16-17. Matt. 17:5).


The Jesus of the Bible taught in the temple. The only record we have of our Savior being truly angry and filled with indignation during his mortal life was when the money changers made his “Fathers House a house of merchandise” (John 2:14-17).


In the Sermon on the Mount he counseled that we should let our alms be in secret, and he promised that our Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward us openly. (Matt. 6:4).


Jesus taught that we have to be righteous to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 5:20), so that when He comes again “we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2).


If we want tho have Eternal Life we must “keep the commandments (Matt. 5:48), be born of the water and the spirit (John 3:5), and endure to the end to be saved (Matt. 24:13).


Jesus established a church and loved it and gave Himself for it (Eph. 5:25. He prayed that we might all be one in the same way as He and His Father are one (John 17:23). While in the Garden of Gethsemane He subordinated His will to the Father’s when He prayed, “Father if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done” (Luke 22:42). It was there that he shed”great drops of bloodfalling down to the ground” (Luke 22:44.


Later, Jesus, who said His Father “is greater than I” (John 14:28). carried His own cross and died on Calvary for you and me.


Jesus did “nothing of himself, burt what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise,” (John 5:19). Jesus did as the Father commanded him to do and say (John 12:49).


He rose from the dead on the third day. He appeared unto upwards of five hundred people (1 Cor. 15:4-8). His resurrected body was a physical body. He ate with his Apostles after he was resurrected (Luke 24:39-43).


Jesus gave us a free gift, even his atonement, to all mankindso that in “Christ all shall be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:22). Through His grace, thjere will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust, and the books will be opened and every man will be judged “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12-13).


This Jesus, we as Latter Day Saints believe, is a distinct, separate personage from the Father and was seen standing on the rifgt hand of

the Father (Acts 7:55).


Jesus will come again. It will be the same Jesus (Acts 1:11), with his same immortal, resurrected body. “One shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then shall he answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends” (Zech 13:6). Another Jesus? There is no salvation in any other Jesus than the one clearly taught in the above Biblical references. This is the Jesus that we, as Latter Day Saints, believe in. Latter Day Saints agree with Paul in Galatians. If someone who teaches a Jesus who saves a sinner without doing the will of his Father which is in heaven (Matt. 7:21), a Jesus who requires no righteousness, no sacrifice and no baptism for the remission of sins, a Jesus who is not now a resurrected being possessing a glorious physical, tangible body, a Jesus who does not appear today to men and women, a Jesus who will not send mighty angels to the earth, a Jesus who will not open the heavens for his children today as he did anciently, then truly the preacher of this false Christ should be “accursed”.

 

[Rescued One]

Do Mormons really worship a "different Jesus" as many detractors claim?

You might label us detractors, but we are contending for the original Christianity.

Paul warned about “another Jesus” in 2 Corinthians 11:14. He also told the members in Galatia to watch out for anyone who would preach “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6-9)

Amen. Mormons have another Jesus, and if they worship their Jesus in addition to their exalted man god "Heavenly Father," they can't deny that they are polytheists.

Modern detractors are in error when they accuse us of worshipping a Jesus different than the one found in the bible. Without question, we teach the same Jesus as taught in the Bible.

You are the people who don't question your religion.

Perhaps there are those who teach a different Jesus and a counterfeit plan of salvation, but it isn’t the Latter Day Saints.

Mormons are called "Latter-day Saints" not Latter Day Saints.

The biblical Jesus doesn't have an exalted man for a father.

The biblical plan of salvation is:

John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Without the new birth (being quickened by God's grace) , a person doesn't have faith.

Ephesians 2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The gift of God is the new birth; it is eternal life. The wages of sin is death:

"whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Let us examine what we can learn about the “real” Jesus from the Bible. Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth (Col. 1:16) under the direction of God the Father (Heb. 1:1-3). Jesus lived with the Father before this earth life and prayed to his Father that he might return and have the same glory with the Father that he had before the world was (JOHN 17:5). Jesus was foreordained from before the foundation of the world to be the Redeemer of the world (1 Peter 1:20). Jesus was and is the first born in the spirit world (Col. 1:15, the only begotten son of God in the flesh, and the first individual to be resurrected (Col. 1:15).

There was no time that Jesus wasn't fully God:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 17
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

The Father brings the ones He has quickened to Christ. The gift of God is eternal life.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 3
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(eternal life, not resurrection)

Matthew 25
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Only those with the gift of eternal life will be declared righteous.

Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...

Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[SusanD.]

SusanD, no where in the Bible does it say God changes and stops giving scripture, as your asserting here. Rather, the Bible says how God is unchanging and never abandons His people. Obviously, no man has authority on his own to add or subtract from the word of God, as Moses taught in Deuteronomy 4:2. However, God may continue to add to His own words, as recorded by His servants: Moses kept on writing, as did all God's servants after that. Similarly John warned against man adding specifically to Book of Revelation (Rev. 22:18,19). Still, God continued to speak, John and the other prophets of God continuing to write down His words, such as the Gospel of John. Clearly John and the prophets by no means meant God changes and revelation ends.

God doesn't change: He continues to lead His people through prophets and individually.

I see you have misinterpreted my replies, and also misunderstood what the Bible is actually saying. If you choose not to accept what it says in Hebrews 1 that is up to you. I hope that you will one day see that that LDS religion is indeed contradictory to what has been revealed. God doesn't contradict Himself.

Peace to you.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I see you have misinterpreted my replies, and also misunderstood what the Bible is actually saying. If you choose not to accept what it says in Hebrews 1 that is up to you. I hope that you will one day see that that LDS religion is indeed contradictory to what has been revealed. God doesn't contradict Himself.

Peace to you.

You are correct: God does NOT change not contradict Himself. Please consult Amos 3:7.

 

[BigDaddy4]

You are correct: God does NOT change not contradict Himself. Please consult Amos 3:7.

Why do you go back to the OT for your counterclaim? You seem to be going backwards. Hebrews 1:1 already addresses whatever point you are trying to make with Amos 3:7. You need to move on to Hebrews 1:2 - "in these last days..."

 

[fatboys]

Why do you go back to the OT for your counterclaim? You seem to be going backwards. Hebrews 1:1 already addresses whatever point you are trying to make with Amos 3:7. You need to move on to Hebrews 1:2 - "in these last days..."

So your saying God does change

 

[Rescued One]

So your saying God does change

He never said that! Giving us a new covenant, didn't cause God to change. His plan was always decided before creation.

 

[fatboys]

He never said that! Giving us a new covenant, didn't cause God to change. His plan was always decided before creation.

There were prophets before during and after Christ. Was God lying in the Old Testament or is mainstream Christian so intent on supporting their doctrines that they are willing to overlook the fact that God change the way he deals with his children? Which would you rather have a living breathing prophet of God or words written thousands of years ago which have been handled and copied by uninspired man? Which do you think would be a more pure source of Gods word?

 

[Rescued One]

What words were written by uninspired men?

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Did Jesus forget to tell us something? Did the Holy Spirit renig on guiding us?

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[SusanD.]

There were prophets before during and after Christ. Was God lying in the Old Testament or is mainstream Christian so intent on supporting their doctrines that they are willing to overlook the fact that God change the way he deals with his children? Which would you rather have a living breathing prophet of God or words written thousands of years ago which have been handled and copied by uninspired man? Which do you think would be a more pure source of Gods word?

The 'prophets' and teachers of LDS have to claim that God has changed His doctrines in order that the contradictions of LDS will somehow sit with the Bible. What makes your religion any better than the Jehovah's Witnesses or Islam? Each of these have something different to say about who Jesus Christ is, contrary to what has already been revealed in Holy Bible from 2,000 years ago. The Mormon Jesus is a fantasy of Joseph Smith. Here are some contradictions for you to consider:-

Birth of Jesus
Alma
7:10 "And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers..."
CONTRADICTS Matthew 2:1, "Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea..."

There is only one God
Mosiah 15:1, 5; Alma 11:28; 2 Nephi 31:21
CONTRADICTS - Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 5. “…The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world.”

I will gladly stick with the Bible revelation of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who is willing to redeem and renew all who receive Him. Is the Bible reliable? | carm

Peace to you.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The 'prophets' and teachers of LDS have to claim that God has changed His doctrines in order that the contradictions of LDS will somehow sit with the Bible. What makes your religion any better than the Jehovah's Witnesses or Islam? Each of these have something different to say about who Jesus Christ is, contrary to what has already been revealed in Holy Bible from 2,000 years ago. The Mormon Jesus is a fantasy of Joseph Smith. Here are some contradictions for you to consider:-

Birth of Jesus
Alma
7:10 "And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers..."
CONTRADICTS Matthew 2:1, "Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea..."

There is only one God
Mosiah 15:1, 5; Alma 11:28; 2 Nephi 31:21
CONTRADICTS - Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 5. “…The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world.”

I will gladly stick with the Bible revelation of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who is willing to redeem and renew all who receive Him. Is the Bible reliable? | carm

Peace to you.

SusanD I could go through and address your misunderstanding of LDS beliefs here, but I would prefer to stick big picture here and have you address Amos 3:7 " Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Where are your prophets? Are is this verse false?

 

[BigDaddy4]

So your saying God does change

False conclusion. God's nature never changes. Jesus came to fulfill the law and prophets (Math. 5:17). The prophets pointed to Christ. Christ fulfilled that with his birth, death, and resurrection. In place of the prophets, Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit, hence Hebrews 1:1-2.

 

[BigDaddy4]

SusanD I could go through and address your misunderstanding of LDS beliefs here, but I would prefer to stick big picture here and have you address Amos 3:7 " Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Where are your prophets? Are is this verse false?

Please stop playing your games. Hebrews 1:1-2 already addresses this. If you want to live by the OT laws, go for it. But we have been redeemed by God's grace and God gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Each of us. Individually and collectively. No more need for prophets. No man stands between God and his people.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Please stop playing your games. Hebrews 1:1-2 already addresses this. If you want to live by the OT laws, go for it. But we have been redeemed by God's grace and God gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Each of us. Individually and collectively. No more need for prophets. No man stands between God and his people.

Oh, yeah. The "God changes" defense.

 

[fatboys]

False conclusion. God's nature never changes. Jesus came to fulfill the law and prophets (Math. 5:17). The prophets pointed to Christ. Christ fulfilled that with his birth, death, and resurrection. In place of the prophets, Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit, hence Hebrews 1:1-2.

He came to fulfill the law not do away with prophets or there would have. It been any during his life or just after his death.