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Cerberus~ said:
That Jesus changed water into wine doesn't mean that He encouraged people to drink wine to the point of intoxication.
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Superpants said:
We're not talking about caffeine or the temporary functioning of the brain, we're talking about the Bible's condemnation of intoxication.
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Cat59
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One of the problems encountered when discussing the relative morality of different substances is the tendency of cultures to sanction certain drugs while demonising others, not on the basis of their intrinsic harm or benefit, but on the basis of how that substance has been entwined into the history and development of that culture. So in certain South American societies, mescaline was sanctioned, but intoxication with alcohol severely punished, khat (ghat) is acceptable to Somali and Yemeni Muslims, whereas alcohol is not. Our beliefs about the morality of drug use have developed therefore not on any rational basis due to the harm the drug causes but due to the underlying beliefs of the society in which we live.
So in my opinion Cannabis is not, in itself, immoral any more than alcohol is, as invisible trousers said, like all drugs it is amoral. It can result in harm, particularly to people like me with a strong genetic loading for schizophrenia, but so can alcohol, nicotine and even caffeine, the socially sanctioned drugs of our society.
And intoxication, which is the loss of ability to control due to the effect of a substance on the brain is not inevitable with cannabis use any more than with alcohol use.
So in my opinion Cannabis is not, in itself, immoral any more than alcohol is, as invisible trousers said, like all drugs it is amoral. It can result in harm, particularly to people like me with a strong genetic loading for schizophrenia, but so can alcohol, nicotine and even caffeine, the socially sanctioned drugs of our society.
And intoxication, which is the loss of ability to control due to the effect of a substance on the brain is not inevitable with cannabis use any more than with alcohol use.
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12volt_man said:
um, what do you think intoxication is?
intoxication changes the way the mind works by chemically altering the "temporary funtioning of the brain." how is my post irrelevant?
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Superpants said:
There are many drugs and medicines and even physical activities that can alter the temporary functioning of the brain without leading to intoxication.
Getting high is no less a sin than getting drunk.
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Cerberus~
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Based on what, a couple verses on drunkeness that you've taken out of context?
If pot was as bad as alcohol, why doesn't the Bible mention it?
There's certainly no logical or secular reason why using pot is wrong.
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Cerberus~ said:
No, based on the careful study of scripture.
Would you please show me what verses I've taken out of context and how I've done this?
There are a lot of things that aren't mentioned in scripture, but that doesn't mean we ignore what scripture does say.
Perhaps not, but that's not what we're talking about here and, frankly, I don't see the logic in a non-Christian telling Christians what the Bible says is or is not sin.
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butterfoot
Formerly Known as cameronw
Cerberus~ said:
If you use Pot technically you are breaking a commandment. Obey thy Mother and thy Father. If your parents tell you its wrong and you use it then you just broke a commandment.
-cw
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Cerberus~
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12volt_man said:
First I would need the verses your using. "Out of context" was getting ahead of myself. That comes next post.
Not a very comprehensive Book, is it?
Why? What makes your knowledge of the superior to mine? Because you believe it? I'ld say that's an arguement for the reverse.
BTW, have you ever smoked pot, because I really love the logic of condemning something which you've never tried. And this isn't like killing someone, where don't have to try it to know you don't want to do it, but rather like choosing what to eat. How can you say something tastes bad when you've never tasted it?
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Cerberus~
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Well that's a technicallity.
Once you're 18 though, that doesn't apply. Besides, if your ma and pa tell you that being a Christian or getting married or driving is immoral, would that person be wrong in commiting such acts once 18?
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Cerberus~ said:First I would need the verses your using. "Out of context" was getting ahead of myself. That comes next post.
So then, you don't even know what verses I'm referring to, but you know that they're out of context?
Good thinking.
Actually, yes, it is.
No, because I've been studying it on a daily basis for the last twenty years. You do not.
Yes, I've been very open about my pot smoking days.
I smoked pot from roughly 17-late twenties.
When I lived in Key West, pot was everywhere. I mean everywhere. It was like an all you can smoke buffet.
I also sail competitively. Pot is more than abundant in sailing circles.
First of all, I have tried it.
Second, I've never put a gun to my head and pulled the trigger, but I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea.
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Cerberus~
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12volt_man said:
I've had this debate before. More likely than not, I've seen the verses your talking about. Intoxication, drunkeness, flesh, something about pharmocology in Revelations, ect.
Besides, what else am I supposed to do when you wont even list your verses.
That completely leaves out the subject of drug use. Right.
Appeal to authority.
Great. Maybe you can enlighten us all to the great dangers of pot.
I specifically addressed this flawed comparison in the preceding sentences of the one you quoted.
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There is nothing immoral about smoking pot. At all. You are breaking no religious law or commiting a sin.
Also, smoking pot once in a while is completely harmless. To have any negetive effects occur at all, you would have to smoke a large amount every day for a long time.
Also, smoking pot once in a while is completely harmless. To have any negetive effects occur at all, you would have to smoke a large amount every day for a long time.
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Cerberus~ said:
Like I said, you don't know what verses I'm referring to, and yet you know believe that I'm taking them out of context? I'm sorry, but that's not exactly the hallmark of a brilliant thinker.
No, one that addresses many different things, including drug use.
No, appeal to experience vs lack of experience.
That's not the point of this thread.
The point of the thread is Biblical condemnation of drunkenness vs the apparent lack of condemnation of pot usage.
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