The Missing Piece of Our Christianity, the Key to Overcoming (Multi-part)

[aiki]

Then you are saying he was wrong or right in claiming he could show us how sin could be eradicated?

Well, after my lengthy explanation, if you are still unsure of what I'm saying, I don't know that further clarification will be of any value. Let me try one more time: Scripture tells me I have a spiritual position in Christ that is not immediately, or always, or fully reflected in my daily condition. So, it is that I am dead to Sin and not dead to it at the same time. I may be dead to it in my spiritual position in Christ, but not necessarily dead to it in how I live. Paradoxically, then, I can say both that Sin is rendered impotent in my life and not rendered impotent. My walk with God has been a process whereby what is true of me in my spiritual position in Christ is manifested, by the exercise of faith and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, more and more in my daily condition.

Sin no longer has dominion over us, would be the best way to put it, but it will never be eradicated.

This is a very simplified way to put it that I think produces more questions and confusion than answers and clarity. It's true as far as it goes but more explanation is certainly required: What is meant by "dominion over us"? If Sin has no more dominion, why is it not eradicated? Why do believer's sin when Sin has no more dominion over them? How does a Christian live in the light of the fact that sin has no more dominion over them? And so on. Sometimes, brevity is not the best way to go.

 

[Kenny'sID]

First I have clarified that I eradicate nothing.

I'm glad, because some of your posts appeared to say we could

Kenny, again, it seems you are trying to paint me as saying that I am somehow espousing sinless perfectionism. I am not, and I can make it no clearer.

No, I know better than that, we discussed it a few months ago, and I was glad to see you were't going down that road...so many do.

So, are you disputing that willful sin is somehow still ok with God, or somehow, by supreme effort or by the power of God, it must be eradicated?

Absolutely not, I speak against exactly that here often.

To me all we are saying is as simple as telling people, people that don't know it already, that we must stop wilful sin or else. I explain briefly what that is as well as the difference between that and sin of temptation, which, of course, we simply ask forgiveness and move on. That's all.

As far as how we do it, in my view, we just do it, we decide what we want, to sin a few piddly sins for a few yrs because it's more fun than not, and end up where that gets us, or straighten out, and receive the promised eternal/better life. It's not the least bit complicated.

I'm afraid I wasn't the only one getting lost in your presenting a simple message, and you did appear to be saying we could eradicate sin, and again, glad to hear, when you finally get down to brass tacks, that is not the case.

As I said before, I think you have some good things to say, a good basic message, and I hope we can all learn something from this, and how to get across that age old message that has always been there, and that so many are already aware of, and get it across...simply.

Peace.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well, after my lengthy explanation, if you are still unsure of what I'm saying, I don't know that further clarification will be of any value. Let me try one more time: Scripture tells me I have a spiritual position in Christ that is not immediately, or always, or fully reflected in my daily condition. So, it is that I am dead to Sin and not dead to it at the same time. I may be dead to it in my spiritual position in Christ, but not necessarily dead to it in how I live. Paradoxically, then, I can say both that Sin is rendered impotent in my life and not rendered impotent. My walk with God has been a process whereby what is true of me in my spiritual position in Christ is manifested, by the exercise of faith and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, more and more in my daily condition.



This is a very simplified way to put it that I think produces more questions and confusion than answers and clarity. It's true as far as it goes but more explanation is certainly required: What is meant by "dominion over us"? If Sin has no more dominion, why is it not eradicated? Why do believer's sin when Sin has no more dominion over them? How does a Christian live in the light of the fact that sin has no more dominion over them? And so on. Sometimes, brevity is not the best way to go.

See, that's part of the problem, i asked a simple question that required a yes or no, and maybe a short explanation. If I were a new Christian or seeker, I would get completely lost in some of what goes on in this thread, and may even give up because the simple seemed so complicated.

 

[aiki]

See, that's part of the problem, i asked a simple question that required a yes or no, and maybe a short explanation. If I were a new Christian or seeker, I would get completely lost in some of what goes on in this thread, and may even give up because the simple seemed so complicated.

I understand. But the deep truths of God cannot always be reduced to a snappy sound-byte - or, in this case, a short one-liner. Even the apostle Peter acknowledged the difficulty of Paul's teaching:

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 ...our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

There is spiritual "milk" fed to spiritual babes and then there is "meat" or "solid food" for those who are more spiritually mature.

1 Corinthians 3:2-3
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

Paul knew that not every truth in Scripture could be "digested" by the "new Christian" - and certainly not the "seeker," whose mind is closed to spiritual things by virtue of his being "dead in trespasses and sins." (Ephesians 2:1; 1 Corinthians 2:14) But his response to this wasn't to dumb down or try to encapsulate the "solid food" of God's truth, but to wait for the Corinthians to grow, to mature spiritually, so that they could take it in. He actually scolded the fleshly Corinthians in the above passage for not having grown spiritually and progressed beyond the "milk" stage of truth.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I understand. But the deep truths of God cannot always be reduced to a snappy sound-byte - or, in this case, a short one-liner. Even the apostle Peter acknowledged the difficulty of Paul's teaching:

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 ...our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

There is spiritual "milk" fed to spiritual babes and then there is "meat" or "solid food" suitable for those who are spiritually mature.

1 Corinthians 3:2-3
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

Paul knew that not every truth in Scripture could be "digested" by the "new Christian" - and certainly not the "seeker," whose mind is closed to spiritual things by virtue of his being "dead in trespasses and sins." (Ephesians 2:1; 1 Corinthians 2:14) But his response to this wasn't to dumb down or encapsulate the "solid food" of God's truth, but to wait for the Corinthians to grow, to mature spiritually, so that they could take it in. He actually scolded the fleshly Corinthians in the above passage for not having grown spiritually and progressed beyond the "milk" stage of truth.

I understand that, we all have our ways of doing things. Input from others is often an important part of developing that "way".

 

[aiki]

I understand that, we all have our ways of doing things. Input from others is often an important part of developing that "way".

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. Isn't Christianity a homogenizing thing? I mean, at every turn in Scripture, we aren't presented with encouragement to do things our own way but to do them God's way. We are all to be conformed to Christ (Romans 8:29), for instance, and to live according to a pretty explicit and specific set of commands, spiritual principles and doctrines. So, I don't know what you mean when you say we all have our own way of doing things and that others are important in helping us develop that way. Isn't there only one Way (John 14:6)? And aren't we all to be walking in humble submission to Him?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. Isn't Christianity a homogenizing thing? I mean, at very turn in Scripture, we aren't presented with encouragement to do things our own way but to do them God's way. We are all to be conformed to Christ (Romans 8:29), for instance, and to live according to a pretty explicit and specific set of commands, spiritual principles and doctrines. So, I don't know what you mean when you say we all have our own way of doing things and that others are important in helping us develop that way. Isn't there only one Way (John 14:6)? And aren't we all to be walking in humble submission to Him?

It seemed pretty clear to me, and still does.

 

[aiki]

Yes, I'm sure your thinking and statements are perfectly clear to you. But I didn't ask you if you thought they were.

 

[Gideons300]

There is one thing I would like to make sure is that we are all defining sin that same way.

Under the old covenant, we adhered to a system of rules, and it was quite clear that if the rule was broken, sin had occurred.

Not so under the new covenant. Here ‘whatsoever is not of faith is sin’. What does this mean? The believer has the Holy Spirit in Him to be his ‘God conscience’. The Spirit inside us lets us know when we have erred. If we repent, no sin has occurred. That is why we are told that if we are angry, that if we repent and do no hold onto it, we have not sinned.

It is also the reason that one man can eat meat offered to idols and not be sinning, and yet another do the very same act and it is sin to him. One man can make one day a week a special day for God, the other can see every day that way. Both are right..... for them. But when we try to make it a rule, we are hiding backwards under the old covenant of self effort.

Another example of this misunderstanding of what sin is to us is lust. If a man sees an attractive shapely woman, chances are he is going to admire that woman’s beauty. He did not purposely follow her to get a better look. Has he sinned with that thought? No, not at all.

Now some will bring up Jesus’s comments about lust being the equivelnt of adultery. But that is not what He said. He said that if a man looked at a woman to lust after her in his heart, then he has sinned. Why? He purposely, with intent, did it.

That is why we are to,d that when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. It is all about the thoughts and intents of our heart.

Another example. I am on the highway with my family and a teen driver purposely drives aggressively behind me five feet from my bumper. I get angry immediately. Have I sinned? Not yet. The Holy Spirit immediately deals with me. I can now either hold onto the anger or let it go. It I hold onto it, I am sinning. Why? I cannot disobey the correction of the Spirit and still walk in faith that I possess a new nature where sin has no grip on me. But if I admit my anger, and let it go, no sin has occurred. Why? I have not violated my conscience and my faith is intact.

As believers, Satan will try his best to get us under condemnation and make us feel like poor sinners all day long. It is miserable. It is also a lie. But the writer of Hebrews makes it clear that once cleansed, we are to have no more consciousness of sin. That is the path of freedom.

God is able to keep us from falling. We will all have to possibility of sinning as long as we are in these fleshly tents. BUT, can a man or woman walk in freedom all day every day the rest of their life without sinning? Of course!

When we first reckon ourselves to be dead to sin and alive to Him, we cannot do so if we are leaving the back door open for sin. This is because we are leaving the back door open for our old nature to crawl out of the grave.

Now, when we first do this, our faith is shaky. Our shield of faith is small. We are like toddlers taking our first steps. Can we slip? Of course. It does not mean it is a lie that God can keep us. Our faith just needs to grow. Like the toddler who falls, the parents congratulate him for the steps he took, stand him up and encourage him to take more. Amen?

As we enter our ‘good fight of faith’, and we face temptation joyfully, for we know we can walk through it and not fall, our faith grows! What is the goal? For us to be established in the faith. And when that happens, can we still fall? Yes. But do we fall? No.

So many freak out when we say on can walk twenty years without sinning. Why? If God is the one who keeps us from falling, and He does so as we hold up our shield of faith, how safe can we be? Totally safe! Totally kept by the power of God through faith!

Blessings,

Gids