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The Messianic was the first congregation

Lulav

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Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
Angels - The current preacher to the congregation.
Rocky, The 'angels' are not the commonly understood messengers. There is a problem with the translation.

An angel of the congregation was a single person, but not a preacher. In Hebrew he was called the 'Sheliach'. This was one who was appointed by the leader of the synagogue to read from the scriptures and to also offer up prayers. Today we have something similar in the synagogue and is called the Chazan or Cantor.
 
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rockytopva

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There are seven branches to a menorah. There is the stem rising up in the middle with three branches to each side of it. The one in the middle is called the Shamash. It has been compared to the creation week, and this middle branch is seen as the fourth day with its six curved branches representing the six days of creation while the center seventh branch stands for the seventh day, Shabbat.

It has also been assigned to God as well as Yeshua.
If I had to pick an end time date I would go, word by word, with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. " - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

It is my estimations that we are at the end of the Laodicean church age along with the restoration of Israel. I do not believe we are that far away for things to wrap up... Uh-oh... Timing... And to say that these dates are just estimations...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

I believe, then, the 2060 prophecy as closest, noting room for error as in Newton's quote. But... My goodness... 2060 is a lot closer than it was when Isaac Newton uttered these words 300 years ago! And it is also a good time as we do not have one denomination trying to rule the roost!
 
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dani'el

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A significant portion of Jewish converts to Christianity continued to keep Jewish traditions. This is because Christianity was originally a sect of Judaism. This is widely discussed in Church history. We have a sticky thread on it in the Messianic forum.
Clement of Alexandria- All the churches were Greek religious colonies. Their language was Greek, their organization Greek, their writers Greek and their ritual Greek. Thus the church at Rome was but one of a confederation of Greek religious republics rounded by Christianity”. He, a church father, said this between 150-200 AD.

In his own words, the church was thoroughly pagan Greek and in no way Jewish. It was also not unified in teachings or in theologies. It was a “confederation rounded by Christianity.” In other words, all they really had in common was that in some degree they accepted Jesus as the Christ, and they removed as much as possible the stigma of Judaism from their worship and theology making it pagan Greek.

Almost all the popular church history was handed down to us by he church, written by the church fathers. They are proven liars again and again, yet being immersed in their teachings and having little else for centuries we tended to believe them. Now we have discussions like this which call out the truth. Again, look to the First Council of Nicea and you'll see there was no "church." There were "churches," but no common doctrinal beliefs. There were men and assemblies which had influence on how the church would develope doctrinally, but again look up all the subsequent "councils" and you'll see it took literally centuries before the catholic (universal) church really became universal (Catholic). Then there was the Great East-West Schism! You have also only to look at the writings of the church fathers themselves to see that the sect of the Nazarenes and the Christian Church were at odds from the beginning (mid 4th cen when the church just began to form). Some churches did follow some Judaic practices, but most did not and many were antagonistic. The church fathers, and so the church itself hated the Jews, and hated the Nazarenes even more! They said as much, time and again.

Your sticky thread probably needs to get unstuck if that is its' conclusion. At any rate, I'm not going to go and rehash an old thread, probably arguing with half the members. Anyone can look this stuff up for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I've given you the starting points. If you want the truth, research and find out. If not ...

Bonacursus was a 12th-century Italian Cathar who converted to Catholicism.
Bonacursus, entitled “Against the Heretics”: “Let those who are not yet acquainted with them, please note how perverse their belief and doctrine are. First, they teach that we should obey the Law of Moses according to the letter - the Sabbath, and circumcision, and the legal precepts still being in force. Furthermore, to increase their error, they condemn and reject all the Church Fathers, and the whole Roman Church."
- just, feel the lo-o-o-ove ... !
 
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Torah Keeper

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Clement of Alexandria- All the churches were Greek religious colonies. Their language was Greek, their organization Greek, their writers Greek and their ritual Greek. Thus the church at Rome was but one of a confederation of Greek religious republics rounded by Christianity”. He, a church father, said this between 150-200 AD.
This is absolute nonsense. Please, educate yourself on Christian history.
 
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rockytopva

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I would say it is you who needs to educate yourself. That IS history!
History… I believe the spirit of Jezebel is to control, dominate, and force one into wrong teachings on penalty of ones own life...

1 And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets (of Baal) with the sword.
2 Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time.
8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.
9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10 And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. - 1 Kings 19

And such spirit existed in which I would call Thyatirean times, or the dark or middle ages. The prophecy to the church of Thyatira also mentions "that woman Jezebel" and the resulting fornication the worship of that which they ought not. The spirit to control, kill, and dominate was also witnessed in the activity of the Mongol hordes.
 
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Yusuphhai

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Once in my dream I saw my menorah shining seven light of fire(אש). ש represents fire, א represents air. Fire is one side of Peace (Shalom, שלום),the other side of שלום is water(מ'ם). מ&ם represents water. The menorah is also a living tree, which need water and blossoms seven apricot flowers. When the meaning of two sides (fire and water) connects together, שלום comes. For example , fire represents Western and water represents Eastern. Israel is both Western and Eastern and connection of Western and Eastern.
 
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rockytopva

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And... Remembering... The whole seasonal story is one of Messianic origins...

jesusmary-jpg.325361
 
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Aaron112

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If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado? And... If you have a better interpretation please post your info! I dont mind for people to disagree with me and may end up learning a thing of two! I believe the churches came down as seven and each congregation is different in their generation!
You probably have read and/or heard that no private interpretation of Scripture is permitted. Almost no one believes this, yet it is not only true, but often disobeyed.
Yes, there is a true understanding , but it is not found in man's interpretations. It is usually not permitted either on or in any religious group/organization or most places.
 
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rockytopva

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You probably have read and/or heard that no private interpretation of Scripture is permitted. Almost no one believes this, yet it is not only true, but often disobeyed.
Yes, there is a true understanding , but it is not found in man's interpretations. It is usually not permitted either on or in any religious group/organization or most places.
Well... I could be wrong! As most people think they have the superiority I would tend to believe only a few believe as I. Apologies, then, for bringing it up.
 
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Aaron112

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Well... I could be wrong! As most people think they have the superiority I would tend to believe only a few believe as I. Apologies, then, for bringing it up.
Does it matter if you or I are right or wrong ? /btw, as written, most people think wrong, in error. /

I hope rather that what you are seeking, that what you will value, would be truth no matter what, seeking the truth no matter the cost, giving up everything to follow Jesus and hold on to Him, hold fast every day to His Name, not to men nor men's doctrines.

Why apologize for bringing something up ?
 
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rockytopva

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Does it matter if you or I are right or wrong ? /btw, as written, most people think wrong, in error. /

I hope rather that what you are seeking, that what you will value, would be truth no matter what, seeking the truth no matter the cost, giving up everything to follow Jesus and hold on to Him, hold fast every day to His Name, not to men nor men's doctrines.

Why apologize for bringing something up ?
Most New Testament scripture is written in metaphor. Every preacher studied in history and the bible will bring out something different in each passage. This is what makes listening to someone experienced good. Do you think that means they are in private interpretation? I don't think so!
 
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rockytopva

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I would imagine the Messianic, then, their own unique congregation. I would think that if I were to visit I would have to learn of them before getting overly involved and expect a little Titus treatment if I went beyond the boundaries.

1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. - Galatians 2

Not to condemn Messianics... But to respect them of being in their own unique congregation.
 
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Aaron112

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Most New Testament scripture is written in metaphor. Every preacher studied in history and the bible will bring out something different in each passage. This is what makes listening to someone experienced good. Do you think that means they are in private interpretation? I don't think so!
Do they , the ones you listen to, ever tell the truth ?
Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart - Bible ...biblegateway.com› passage
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
 
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rockytopva

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Do they , the ones you listen to, ever tell the truth ?
Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart - Bible ...biblegateway.com› passage
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
But... Who am I listening to? Who else believes this way? I came across this interpretation while studying history and noticing the change of church with the time.

Messianic - Until the Sacking of Jerusalem
Roman Martyrs - Until the time of Constantine
Orthodox - Built in Constantinople
Catholic - Built in Rome
Protestant - Built in Germany
Revived - Built in England
Material - Built in the United States

All unique churches built in their times and geographies.
 
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Aaron112

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But... Who am I listening to? Who else believes this way? I came across this interpretation while studying history and noticing the change of church with the time.
So then if this is so, it seems the source of error to be known and revealed.

Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart - Bible ...biblegateway.com› passage
Trust in the LORD with all your heart

and lean not on your own understanding;

in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
 
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rockytopva

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So then if this is so, it seems the source of error to be known and revealed.

Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart - Bible ...biblegateway.com› passage
Trust in the LORD with all your heart

and lean not on your own understanding;

in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
The 90 year old Messianic Professor friend of mine at Bible study agreed with me and gave me the names of some of the movements. In which I hate I did not write down. Love the guy! The kind I could sit down and talk hours with.
 
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Aaron112

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The 90 year old Messianic Professor friend of mine at Bible study agreed with me and gave me the names of some of the movements. In which I hate I did not write down. Love the guy! The kind I could sit down and talk hours with.
If he was right and truthful, he might have been helpful to you.
If he wasn't, then like all or most others, he wasn't.
 
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