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Who is the prince who shall come? Is Jesus a Roman?In context, Daniel 9:26 refers to the Messiah being cut off after the 69th week which would be, the 70th week, in the middle of that week (vs.27) He shall bring an end to sacrifice.
Here is what I actually wrote... "I have made over 4000 posts in discussion, over the course of ten years, with Jews themselves at their (Judaism) sites to understand what they believe. As a result, I have become very knowledgeable on what they believe."
I was just saying why I am qualifed to know what the Jews (Judaism) believes and you are not. Which I would not even had to mention it, but you told me I was wrong about what the Jews believe by referring to a couple of verses in the testament. I am just explaining to you that you are not knowledgeable on what they believe, and gave you a very good site at Judaism 101.com and their view of the mashiach. A person cannot understand the end times without that knowledge, Ronald.
You may be beyond education, but my post contained material with links that should be invaluable to them who are willing to expand their knowledge base in order to understand the end times, and put together a probable start to finish end times scenario.
btw, why do you falsely accuse me of being Pre-trib? Why are you even bring the rapture up? It has no relevancey to my posts in this thread.
He did not say it was a prophecy. And he would not say it, because he would have to had said - "thus saith the Lord. A very serious offense in Judaism if it was not a message from God.
He was giving his opinion, conjecture. It did not say dream or vision that he had. The article did not say the basis for his expectation.
I think I have better handle on it than you. I am not excusing myself from this thread. I like the opportunity this site gives for me to express myself.
What the Jews believe is based upon the Tanach and Talmud. And as far as the scriptures go, if you are just quoting those thinking that those reveal what the Jews believe - think again.
What the Jews (Judaism) believe is how they interpret those scriptures - which is completely different than Christianity. Which a person to know what they believe, must go to their websites and read, and augment that with discussion with Jews themselves, or ask questions at their sites, or watch videos on You Tube made by them regarding their beliefs.
You know what the real problem is, if this Rabbi is correct and these things come to pass,
Well, you were the guy calling it a prophecy, and I was correcting you. You wrote....I don't need qualification for this Rabbi's prediction. He said the Messiah is coming before the end of the Sabbatical year! That is a PREDICTION. When someone says something is going to happen, especially something significant like Jesus return, IT IS A PREDICTION -- HELLO!
Prophecy >1. A prediction made under divine influence and direction 2. Any prediction 3. Discourse delivered by a prophet under divine inspiration. 4. A book of propheciesWell, you were the guy calling it a prophecy, and I was correcting you. You wrote....
"I am just reporting a prophecy, which was uttered by a Rabbi; (a prophecy that apparently he believes is from God - whether from a dream or vision) and some other currents events that will soon be visible to Israel!"
....and now you are turning it around as if I am the one who made the mistake - by now calling it a prediction.
And now you say he is right. Again what is your basis to say he is right about their messiah will show this fall ? Who is their messiah in bible prophecy that is going to show this fall ?
What? I never said Jesus people were the Romans. But since you mention it, all people who put their faith in Him are His and then some who are written in the Book of Life and not yet have been enlightened. Jews would fall under this category. Again Romans 11 explains it.Jesus's people were the Romans ? What is your bible basis for that point of view.
I didn't say he was correct, I am just reporting what he did say that coincides with other events coming soon.What is your basis for saying the rabbi is correct and that their messiah will show this fall ?
Ronald, in the text the people of the prince who shall come, destroy the city and sanctuary. The Romans did that in 70 AD.What? I never said Jesus people were the Romans.
Actually you don't hear me use that term. I use the term end times version of the Roman Empire.You and your ilk are adherenst to a revived Roman Empire. I get it and had gotten it 20 years ago.
I believe that the Beast is Islam! Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semitic. They are currently perpetrators of terror in the world, and in the Middle East, they are the axis of evil, raping, pillaging, plundering, and chopping off heads. Millions of Christians are and have been persecuted by them and NOW IRAN with their nuclear problem who shouts death to American and death to Israel, while funding Hezbollah and Hamas are the perpetrators of EVIL. ISIS is also spreading. Both are Islamic. DOES THIS COMPUTE TO YOU? THIS IS REALITY AND IT IS FROM SATAN. If you don't think this represents ALL that evil is and that a group of nations (10) can be listed under this premise as Islamic, then we have nothing more to say. Just keep waiting for this Roman Empire to emerge -- you'll snap out of it.
Here's something else you can chew on.
Gog is a demonic prince of a region in the world called Magog. This region of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, most scholars would consider to be Russia and the former countries of the Soviet Union. Much of the former Soviet Union consists of Islamic nations. I think we can be on the same page that Russia and these countries have been controlled by demonic forces.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], "IF" he is correct. Over the years I have examined scriptures and the significant events which have occurred in the last 67 years and have tried to identify signs and the season when all these things will take place. A solar eclipse and blood moon in Rev. 6:12 are key signs I would say, unless you interpret that to be symbolic for something else. The fact that in 1948 Israel became a nation is a major sign. In 1967, Jerusalem was recaptured -- major sign. Of course we look at Matthew 24, Daniel 12, Joel 2, and Rev. 6-21. We look at a great nation that is not so great anymore with abortions since 1974 and now gay marriage. Obviously (to me) what has transpired in the Middle East in the last five years is nothing short of a pronounced spiritual war that is going on and the stage being set for ... we shall see. Then I read books about the economy which claim another collapse looming possibly this year. We all try to put the pieces together and there are many views of course which leads to arguments, insults, separate houses. I won't even bother with Amillennials anymore, it's like trying to talk to a Democrat. If this Rabbi gave any other date then this I might not be so moved. But the way I see it, the GT should begin before 2018, in this generation or else I don't have a clue when.What is your basis for saying the rabbi is correct and that their messiah will show this fall ?
vs. 25 reads "Messiah the Prince". Is God sovereign? Good and evil are woven throughout history. He allows evil for a purpose. So in essence, He destroyed the sanctuary and the city, did He not? He destroyed the world in a flood and He will destroy the world system and kill billions of people in the Great Tribulation. Actually, the day he died on the cross, the sanctuary became null and void -- it was destroyed. The Holy Spirit did not dwell there and from that time, any animal sacrifices were spiritually useless. Jesus himself prophesied about the fall of Jerusalem, "not one stone will be on another ..."Ronald, in the text the people of the prince who shall come, destroy the city and sanctuary. The Romans did that in 70 AD.
Therefore, since you say Jesus is the prince who shall come - his people would by that rationale be the Romans. Which of course is not correct, and why Jesus is not the prince who shall come.
"I get it and had gotten it 20 years ago. The 70th week of Daniel is an popular view that goes along with it -- I understand it, read books about, realize that many brilliant teachers like John MacArthur teach it -- I just don't agree with it. I believe that the Beast is Islam! Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semitic."
You have the right people, they are the Muslims of the Middle East today .... the prophetic scriptures identify them by their ethnic lineage .... no doubt
The prince that shall come is the little horn of Daniel's visions, not a Roman in the first century
70 AD is not in any prophetic vision, but only a matter of recorded history .... this event cannot be found in any prophetic vision and the ancient Roman Empire is not there either .... all of this and even to this day lies in the breach of silence between the ending of the 69th week [the Lord's cutting off], and the coming 70th week and beyond
You also need to consider that the Lord is the One who confirms the covenant that He has with Israel during the coming 70th week still pending .... and all of the objectives listed in Daniel 9:24 will be met for Israel at the time [Daniel does not include the church of today in the vision which was revealed later, and after the 69th week]
If you can get your head around this truth you will then have the correct and full rendering of the prince that shall come and his people .... the Muslims are there and the little horn is still to appear at this time
Many preachers and teachers have missed this fundamental truth by interpreting Daniel 9 in error .... And John MacArthur is now beginning to get the proper perspective, however most still cling to reformation theology related to Daniel's visions
And you are also correct about Satan's [gog's] nesting in northwestern Mesopotamia .... still the same since the flood .... the "land" of magog .... the idea that the prince of rosh is Russian based is bogus .... "rosh" means "head prince", and in this case a reference to the prince of the fallen angels [Ezekiel 38:17]
You are also correct about the sealing of the 144,000 and Lord's protection of the 1/3 of Israel .... but to date any of this is not possible by anyone because the Lord has not revealed it
On the other hand, it does appear that the stage is setting up for the time of the end which will play out in the Middle East and will affect the entire earth .... but the Lord may tarry longer and for a good reason [2 Peter 3:8-9]
My comment
The stage is setting up in the Middle East .... no doubt .... just a matter of time for the curtain to rise
And the Lord only knows the dating
The central issue .... the controversy between Israel and the followers of the false prophet Mohammed .... between Issac and Ishmael
This offset will lead directly to the battle of Armageddon where the Lord will break in and settle the controversy once and for all
There will be no pre-70th week war which will destroy the Islamic masses in the Middle East and expand Israel to the Euphrates ... this is an inserted speculation by some of the "rapture ready" crowd and is not a part of any prophetic vision
This speculation has been offered by some for the purpose of retaining Euro-centric "antichrist" theology telling that once the Muslim intransigence is obliterated in the Middle East by a pseudo-war pre-tribulation war not found in the scope of the prophet's visions, then a Euro-little horn will come and attempt to destroy Israel for some advantage
However, the prophets all tell a very different perspective including Israel's expanded territory to come after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 38; 39; 40-48] and not before .... Armageddon will essentially be a war between the Lord leading Israel, and the satanically driven adherents of Islam in the Middle East
This little horn and his followers are described to be Middle Eastern based, and not from western European vestiges [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27 [the other prince that shall come]; 11:36-45: 12:7; Joel 2:20; Micah 5: 5-6]
And this one will not be of the nation of Israel as some speculate .... he will be Israel's virulent enemy from the get go
Satan's beast in the human little horn ... a king of northwestern Mesopotamia [Syria/Iraq to day] [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]
Ronald, regarding signs, there has to be a biblical basis. That some rabbi makes a prediction that their messiah will arrive this fall is not a biblical basis. He doesn't say why. And is in fact wrong, because there are bibical reasons it can't happen without major biblical events that must take place first.[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], "IF" he is correct. Over the years I have examined scriptures and the significant events which have occurred in the last 67 years and have tried to identify signs and the season when all these things will take place. A solar eclipse and blood moon in Rev. 6:12 are key signs I would say, unless you interpret that to be symbolic for something else. The fact that in 1948 Israel became a nation is a major sign. In 1967, Jerusalem was recaptured -- major sign. Of course we look at Matthew 24, Daniel 12, Joel 2, and Rev. 6-21. We look at a great nation that is not so great anymore with abortions since 1974 and now gay marriage. Obviously (to me) what has transpired in the Middle East in the last five years is nothing short of a pronounced spiritual war that is going on and the stage being set for ... we shall see. Then I read books about the economy which claim another collapse looming possibly this year. We all try to put the pieces together and there are many views of course which leads to arguments, insults, separate houses. I won't even bother with Amillennials anymore, it's like trying to talk to a Democrat. If this Rabbi gave any other date then this I might not be so moved. But the way I see it, the GT should begin before 2018, in this generation or else I don't have a clue when.
What else would you need for a basis -- it's a puzzle, yet, I think I put it together correctly ... maybe not. Again if you don't think so, fine.
"....do you have a problem understanding this?"vs. 25 reads "Messiah the Prince". Is God sovereign? Good and evil are woven throughout history. He allows evil for a purpose. So in essence, He destroyed the sanctuary and the city, did He not? He destroyed the world in a flood and He will destroy the world system and kill billions of people in the Great Tribulation. Actually, the day he died on the cross, the sanctuary became null and void -- it was destroyed. The Holy Spirit did not dwell there and from that time, any animal sacrifices were spiritually useless. Jesus himself prophesied about the fall of Jerusalem, "not one stone will be on another ..."
He did it -- do you have a problem understanding this?
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