The Marriage Debate

[William67]

To marry or not to marry.

After responding to some posts in the "bad boys" thread, I began thinking long and hard about some things.

For decades people have bemoaned people getting married "too young" and before they were emotionally and financially stable. I did the opposite. I waited until I was financially stable to even really begin looking for a wife. Unfortunately, most people are weak and cant control their urges.

There also seems to be this idiotic belief that just because you have asked God for forgiveness, all your past actions are magically wiped away and that someone who has lived a morally bankrupt life, but who has repented, is just as "good" as someone who has followed the Word of God and kept themselves "pure". Sorry, but Im one of the few people who actually believes in justice. A guy who robs and murders someone may eventually repent and ask forgiveness from God, but that isn't going to keep his rear end out of prison. God may forgive him, but he still did wrong and nothing is going to change that.

Lets face facts, financially speaking, marriage is a poor choice for men. When half of marriages end in divorce, what man in his right mind is going to willingly choose to lose half of everything he has worked for? As they say, marriage is a crapshoot. Not only that, but should she choose to never remarry, you are basically an alimony slave for the rest of your life. Is it any wonder that more and more men are choosing to never marry, or not to remarry? This is known as MGTOW or Men Going Their Own Way.

 

[High Fidelity]

We're all sinners and we all need grace. They may have taken longer to repent but they're no more or less deserving of damnation than any other Christian were it not for grace.

If someone lives their life the way they want and full of sin thinking they can just repent at the end of it, that's disingenuous. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't(Proverbs tells us we may seek too late and never find Him or be turned away). But being born again is being born again. Saving grace is saving grace. Sin is sin; they may have had a longer or more extensive history than you, relatively speaking, but that doesn't make much difference since we're still sinners ourselves.

I need to sleep but I'll reply later on.

 

[William67]

We're all sinners and we all need grace. They may have taken longer to repent but they're no more or less deserving of damnation than any other Christian were it not for grace.

If someone lives their life the way they want and full of sin thinking they can just repent at the end of it, that's disingenuous. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't(Proverbs tells us we may seek too late and never find Him or be turned away). But being born again is being born again. Saving grace is saving grace. Sin is sin; they may have had a longer or more extensive history than you, relatively speaking, but that doesn't make much difference since we're still sinners ourselves.

I need to sleep but I'll reply later on.

I agree that sin is sin, but to say that in the real world that taking a piece of candy is the same as mass murder is disingenuous at best. I may be no angel, but my "wife" will never have to worry about me cheating. That cant be said for a woman who was so immoral she has slept with 30, 40, or 50+ men. You would never be able to trust her. If I married someone like that and had children, I would have to have each and every child DNA tested to make sure that he or she were mine.

 

[High Fidelity]

I agree that sin is sin, but to say that in the real world that taking a piece of candy is the same as mass murder is disingenuous at best. I may be no angel, but my "wife" will never have to worry about me cheating. That cant be said for a woman who was so immoral she has slept with 30, 40, or 50+ men. You would never be able to trust her. If I married someone like that and had children, I would have to have each and every child DNA tested to make sure that he or she were mine.

That's applying a humanistic understanding to sin. Sin is sin; it's as black and white as that.

Lying requires just as sincere a repentance as murder, adultery, fornication or any other, in our minds, worse transgression against God.

Scripture tells us not to lean on our own understanding and I think that's partly what forms the basis of your argument against this hypothetical.

 

[William67]

We live for the next life, but we live IN this world. I will not marry a harlot just to prove I can forgive.

Edit: And it boils down to not being unequally yoked. Now, if you have slept around and marry someone who has also slept around, that's fine. But I haven't and I wont.

 

[Deidre32]

Even from a female perspective, marriage is a little scary. I'm engaged, but it scares me too. The problem with the legal system, is that it does favor women, still. No matter how much feminism wishes to proclaim 'equality' for all, men still get the short end of the stick in most divorces, even if he earned the same as his wife when married. Men also are not favored in custody battles, so I can see why men would shy away from marriage, especially when we take into account the high divorce rate. (and most high among Christians, I've read)

 

[SnowyMacie]

I agree that sin is sin, but to say that in the real world that taking a piece of candy is the same as mass murder is disingenuous at best. I may be no angel, but my "wife" will never have to worry about me cheating. That cant be said for a woman who was so immoral she has slept with 30, 40, or 50+ men. You would never be able to trust her. If I married someone like that and had children, I would have to have each and every child DNA tested to make sure that he or she were mine.

That's applying a humanistic understanding to sin. Sin is sin; it's as black and white as that.

Lying requires just as sincere a repentance as murder, adultery, fornication or any other, in our minds, worse transgression against God.

You're technically both correct. All sin requires the same amount of repentance, is a transgression against God, and ultimately leads to death, but scripture does seem to imply that some sins are worse than others through punishment (Luke 12:47-48, Jesus mentioning the punishment for Tyrie and Sidon will be worse than Sodom, etc.), simply just by the use of language (Jesus and Paul using harsher words versus more vanilla), and by quite literally saying "greater sin" in John 19:11.

 

[Citanul]

Lets face facts, financially speaking, marriage is a poor choice for men. When half of marriages end in divorce, what man in his right mind is going to willingly choose to lose half of everything he has worked for?

Except that the "half of marriages end in divorce" claim is a myth. There's no evidence to support that at all, and in fact the divorce rate appears to be on the decline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/u...ves-on.html?smid=tw-share&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=1

 

[ReesePiece23]

Three things humans tend to suck at:-

- Consistency
- Moderation
- Self discipline

And I could throw focus in there as a forth one, but it's all linked.

If one person in the marriage lacks one or more of these characteristics, then it's going to be on somewhat shaky ground. And no, I'm not a marriage counsellor, I'm just engaging common sense.

 

[William67]

Except that the "half of marriages end in divorce" claim is a myth. There's no evidence to support that at all, and in fact the divorce rate appears to be on the decline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/u...ves-on.html?smid=tw-share&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=1

Only because the marriage rate is also on the decline.

 

[blackribbon]

http://www.menshealth.com/health/why-married-men-are-happier

And just because a woman isn't a virgin, doesn't mean she has slept with 20, 30, or 40 men....that is crazy to assume.

I agree with you and think that you are probably better off staying single since you haven't felt the need to be married before now.

The concept of being financially stable before marriage isn't a Biblical principle but rather a worldly one. There are multiple Biblical references to the "wife of my youth" because couples grow as they struggle together to make a successful life.

 

[blackribbon]

Here's another reference:

http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/19/who-needs-marriage-men-apparently/

 

[Elliewaves]

It's fine to have whatever standards you want for who you want to marry. At the same time you must also be realistic and realize that you may remain single if you never find Mr. or Mrs. "perfect". Anyways, People with colored pasts may or may not have better marriages than a "good" boy or girl. They may or may not also have children with no defects and "good" boys and girls may end up with a different set of problems with their kids. Nothing is really black or white and there are infinite numbers of combinations that could happen no matter your past. There aren't really any guarantees; just different sets of problems really. I'd advise anyone who was scared of marriage or suspicious of a potential partner just to not marry. I've seen very vocal virgins have great marriages and poor marriages and I've seen people with pasts who have repented have great marriages and poor marriages. It's probably due to the work they were willing to put into it, I guess. I worked with a guy that obsessed over this issue. He eventually married and then divorced. His wife was a good girl, but he found all sorts of reasons to be suspicious of her (nearly all of that was just in his own mind). I think he got married again too and then divorced again. If you are determined to find reasons to fail then it probably will. Too bad for his kids who have to deal with a twice divorced dad influencing how they feel about marriage.

ETA: I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to remain pure until marriage or seeking a partner that believes the same. But, I do think it's wrong to say that those that didn't (even if they have repented and changed their ways) will be less of a marriage partner for someone else or fail at marriage or have kids with problems. They may or they may not. It's not up to you to decide that or decide what judgement is for what sins here on Earth. *"you" is general here and I'm using my background experience with the guy I worked with who talked about this ALL THE TIME to construct my answer. I value purity and found someone who also does and we plan to marry. It's not the one and only thing in our relationship, but it's nice to have.

 

[sundewgrower]

I don't know. if you're concerned about finances, marriage, and potential divorce it's probably not for you.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Except that the "half of marriages end in divorce" claim is a myth. There's no evidence to support that at all, and in fact the divorce rate appears to be on the decline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/u...ves-on.html?smid=tw-share&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=1

Yup. I think the highest it was ever around was about 30%. The 50% number came from taking the number of marriages in a year, and comparing it to the number of divorces in a year, ignoring all of the couples that stayed married throughout the year.

 

[Deidre32]

I'd say as long as you don't expect someone to bring to the relationship qualities that you don't possess, then...there's nothing wrong with having standards. But, many people...men and women...will want certain standards that they themselves don't have to offer, and that's a bit unrealistic. Water tends to seek its own level, in other words. If you want characteristics in a potential partner that you don't personally possess...then, you need to come back to reality. lol 'You' meaning in general...not speaking to anyone in this thread, specifically.

 

[TheGirlOnFire]

It's only money, we aren't buried with it, it doesn't please god and basically it is the root of evil.

So if I got married and they wanted half, then fine they can take it, because I think my heart would be more that I would worry over

 

[redblue22]

I know my place in hell.

 

[ecotime47]

OP, I understand where you're coming from on this. I personally know many, many people that have just sort of given up on the idea of "happily ever after" when it comes to relationships.

Here's the thing, I don't think marriage in and of itself is the problem. We all suffer from the human condition of sin. Even when we're redeemed by grace, the thoughts, emotions, and attitudes of the world are still all around us. Hebrews 13:4 says "Let marriage be held in honor among all." It's not gonna be perfect but it's still a part of God's plan for humanity.

You should take a look at this article series put together by Focus on the Family. I think they make a solid case for pursuing marriage - http://bit.ly/1miTD9V

 

[miss-a]

never mind