The little horns of Daniel 7 and 8

[Torah Keeper]

I actually think the 4th beast is a revived nephilim empire during the tribulation. These 4 beasts of Daniel are the same as in Revelation, and they rule at the same time, not one after another. Compare Daniel and Revelation. Rome had it's day. Rome did not conquer the entire world. Rome didn't conquer China, for example. Now look at China today. Who is China in prophecy?

The Roman Empire is dead and gone. The Catholics are not beheading anyone who believes in Christ.

According to the original text in Daniel, the abomination of desolation is constructed, that means built. It has nothing to do with armies surrounding Jerusalem. Armies which were not even inside Jerusalem. And thus not on the Temple Mount. This is a mistake of SDA theology.

Who is the lion, the bear, the leaopard, and the terrible beast? Why did Daniel not name the 4th beast? The obvious answer is he did not know what it was. Does genetic engineering ring a bell? Nephilim? Kilayim? The beast of the bottomless pit is not Rome.

Only one empire in all of history conquered the whole world, except for 8 people. The past is the key to the present.

As it was in the days of Noah.....

 

[jgr]

Why did Daniel not name the 4th beast? The obvious answer is he did not know what it was.

Did the Holy Spirit who inspired Daniel not know what it was?

 

[Douggg]

So what if God was saying that the A/C was developing power `towards the east, AND towards the South, AND towards the West,` then that was not possible to say as it would always be interpreted as `southeast.`

Marilyn, I think if west was intended it would have said "and west toward the promised land".

 

[Torah Keeper]

The beast had no name. Because it was not given a name by Adam

 

[jgr]

The beast had no name. Because it was not given a name by Adam

It was not given a name by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Torah Keeper]

jgr, your question makes no sense. I said Daniel didn't know. That is why Daniel asked to be told the meaning of the 4th beast.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Why was it not named? And the other beasts were? The 4th beast was different from all the others(v 19). How was it so different?

 

[jgr]

Why was it not named? And the other beasts were? The 4th beast was different from all the others(v 19). How was it so different?

The Holy Spirit knew what it was, and knew that it did not need to be named.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, I think if west was intended it would have said "and west toward the promised land".

yes, sorry Douggg, I should have said `towards the Glorious Land.`

So let`s have a look at these directions.

I see that if the directions were `south east towards the Glorious Land,` then they would have come from the West (of Israel) and landed either in Cyprus or the Mediterranean Sea, because they were heading `towards the Glorious Land` but not having arrived there, if you know what I mean.

But I see that he `grew exceedingly great towards ......` Thus showing he was gaining influence & power over others. And I see the 3 regions that he does this `growing in power,` as `towards the south, towards the east, and towards the Glorious land.` The A/C is just extending outward from where his center is - Babylon, Iraq.

What do you think? Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

yes, sorry Douggg, I should have said `towards the Glorious Land.`

So let`s have a look at these directions.

I see that if the directions were `south east towards the Glorious Land,` then they would have come from the West (of Israel) and landed either in Cyprus or the Mediterranean Sea, because they were heading `towards the Glorious Land` but not having arrived there, if you know what I mean.

But I see that he `grew exceedingly great towards ......` Thus showing he was gaining influence & power over others. And I see the 3 regions that he does this `growing in power,` as `towards the south, towards the east, and towards the Glorious land.` The A/C is just extending outward from where his center is - Babylon, Iraq.

What do you think? Marilyn.

Marilyn, what I am thinking is the little horn will be the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26-27 who will confirm (by overseeing the law read to the nation of Israel from the temple mount) the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

Moses made the for 7 years requirement for all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

When the little horn arrives in the middle east, and Israel, he will be doing so on the premise of peace keeper in the region following the Gog/Magog event (he destroys many by peace in Daniel 8). Which there are 7 years in Ezekiel 39 following Gog/Magog to Armageddon in Ezekiel 39:17-20. Those 7 years would coincide with the Daniel 9:27 7 years, as the Jews will mistakenly think the little horn is their messiah (for a while).

Since the prince who shall come must be of the Romans, and the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 was the Roman Empire historically, and imo the Eu the Roman Empire in the end times - I think the little horn and his EU army will stage in Greece - right before the Gog/Magog force actually begins their invasion of Israel - as show of force, a deterrent.

Greece is once of the breakup kingdoms of Alexander's kingdom and is the one geographically situated to be northwest of Israel - so that the little horn can head southeast from there toward Israel.

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I don't know who the little horn is. Nor is it clear to me who the ten kings are in Daniel 7, only that they will be EU leaders. I have a thread on the structure of the EU to try and get a better understanding of it. Ironically, the EU has been put together, aimed at that no one individual can be so powerful as the little horn will be.

I think what we have to do is keep an eye on what is going on with the EU. And any leader who is a Jew, to fit the necessary profile that the Jews will believe that he is their messiah. Of course, I don't disagree that Islam and the muslim nations will be core to the Gog/Magog event.

 

[jgr]

Historical confirmation of the identities of the horns (kingdoms) of Daniel 7:

Ten horns (kingdoms) which arose from the dissolution of the Roman empire, and their first or early kings:
Heruli - Anthyrius I
Suevi - Hermeric
Burgundians - Gjúki
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric
Visigoths - Alaric I
Vandals - Genseric
Lombards - Lethuc
Franks - Ascaric
Anglo-Saxons - Alfred the Great

Little horn (kingdom) and king:
The Roman papacy, governed by Gelasius I when the first of the three kings, Odoacer of the Heruli, was overthrown.

Three kings were overthrown: Odoacer of the Heruli, Teia of the Ostrogoths, Gelimer of the Vandals.

 

[Douggg]

Historical confirmation of the identities of the horns (kingdoms) of Daniel 7:

Ten horns (kingdoms) which arose from the dissolution of the Roman empire, and their first or early kings:
Heruli - Anthyrius I
Suevi - Hermeric
Burgundians - Gjúki
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric
Visigoths - Alaric I
Vandals - Genseric
Lombards - Lethuc
Franks - Ascaric
Anglo-Saxons - Alfred the Great

Little horn (kingdom) and king:
The Roman papacy, governed by Gelasius I when the first of the three kings, Odoacer of the Heruli, was overthrown.

Three kings were overthrown: Odoacer of the Heruli, Teia of the Ostrogoths, Gelimer of the Vandals.

jgr, those were 700 years after the cross and resurrection. If those are the ten kings of Daniel 7, then the Kingdom of God did not replace the kingdom of the little horn and the ten kings during Jesus's first coming.

It will happen at Jesus's return. And those are not the ten kings, and the papacy not the little horn.

The gospel of the Kingdom of God - may Your kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven - is still being preached hoping for that day, when Jesus returns to rule and reign this earth from Jerusalem, the city of the great king in Zechariah 14.

 

[jgr]

jgr, those were 700 years after the cross and resurrection. If those are the ten kings of Daniel 7, then the Kingdom of God did not replace the kingdom of the little horn and the ten kings during Jesus's first coming.

It will happen at Jesus's return. And those are not the ten kings, and the papacy not the little horn.

The gospel of the Kingdom of God - may Your kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven - is still being preached hoping for that day, when Jesus returns to rule and reign this earth from Jerusalem, the city of the great king in Zechariah 14.

Douggg,

What are the names of the kingdoms and kings of your ten horns?
What are the names of the kingdom and king of your little horn?
What are the names of the kingdoms and kings of your three horns that were overthrown?

With credible supporting evidence, of course.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Jgr, most people who are not SDA think this beast will arise in the tribulation. It hasn't happened yet

 

[jgr]

The gospel of the Kingdom of God - may Your kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven - is still being preached hoping for that day, when Jesus returns to rule and reign this earth from Jerusalem, the city of the great king in Zechariah 14.

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus was hoping for nothing, because the Kingdom of God was fulfilled in Him and His Gospel.

It sounds alarmingly like you are not in this Kingdom of God.

Are you, or aren't you?

 

[Torah Keeper]

William Miller believed the end of the world would be in 1844. For this date to make any sense, almost all prophecy had to be interpreted metaphorically. So futurist interpretations were swept aside and all prophecies of the tribulation, the beasts, and the mark of the beast, were interpreted as being already fulfilled or currently being fullfilled in 1844.

When the world didn't end, Ellen White came up with the "Investigative Judgement" doctrine instead.

At any rate, the world didn't end in 1844. Francis is not beheading people for refusing to take a mark in their forehead or right hand, and no empire has conquered the whole world(since the flood).

 

[jgr]

Jgr, most people who are not SDA think this beast will arise in the tribulation. It hasn't happened yet

TK, I and a vast number of people that I know are not SDA, but recognize the wisdom and discernment of the historical prophetic insight of the Reformers of the Protestant Reformation.

The Reformation pre-dated SDA by more than 200 years.

The Reformers understood the prophetic significance of their spiritual foe.

 

[Douggg]

What are the names of the kingdoms and kings of your ten horns?

It is not kingdoms plural in Daniel 7, nor Revelation 17:17, but kingdom singular. That is one of the things we have to pay close attention to.

1. I don't know who those specific kings are - yet.
2. Their kingdom will be the EU in its final form.

I started another thread about the EU government structure so we could understand it better. The ten kings (leaders) and the little horn will surface in the EU.

Timewise, it should not be long though. At least before 2030.

What are the names of the kingdoms and kings of your three horns that were overthrown?

I am not sure about who the three persons are that will be pulled up by their roots. I am suspecting it could be a referral to the three president structure of the European Council, the European Commission, and the European Union. Just don't know for certain at this stage.

 

[Douggg]

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus was hoping for nothing, because the Kingdom of God was fulfilled in Him and His Gospel.

You need to read further.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

It sounds alarmingly like you are not in this Kingdom of God.

Are you, or aren't you?

For one thing you have it backwards. The Kingdom of God is in Christians.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

No-one here on earth is "in" the Kingdom of God yet because we pray may Your Kingdom, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[jgr]

It is not kingdoms plural in Daniel 7, nor Revelation 17:17, but kingdom singular. That is one of the things we have to pay close attention to.

1. I don't know who those specific kings are - yet.
2. Their kingdom will be the EU in its final form.

I started another thread about the EU government structure so we could understand it better. The ten kings (leaders) and the little horn will surface in the EU.

Timewise, it should not be long though. At least before 2030.


I am not sure about who the three persons are that will be pulled up by their roots. I am suspecting it could be a referral to the three president structure of the European Council, the European Commission, and the European Union. Just don't know for certain at this stage.

I provided the verifiable historical evidence of all of the kings and their kingdoms.

I'm awaiting your evidence.