The little horn

[Douggg]

scripture does not say this. You appear to be making an assumption.

The ten kings are in Daniel 2 as the ten toes, when the Kingdom of God is setup here on this earth, Daniel 2:44. In Daniel 7 as emerging from the fourth empire in the days of the little horn, which his kingdom gets destroyed when the Kingdom of God is brought to earth in Daniel 7. And in Revelation 17:12-14.

 

[Rodron]

The little horn on the head of the fourth beast in Daniel 7, is actually one of the heads on the beast in Revelation. Specifically, the 7th head, king.

The beast in Revelation is not a direct equivalent to the fourth beast in Daniel 7, because Daniel 7 is looking forward from Daniel's time; while the beast in Revelation is looking back from John's time, to the present of John's time, to the future end times of John's time.

Daniel's fourth beast is all future. (of Daniel's time)
The Revelation beast is part history (the 5 kings), part present (the one king), part future (kings 7, 8).

Hey Douggg! Do you think the beast in Revelation is the same forth beast in Daniel 7 that is in our past, that the false prophet (the two-horn beast) in Revelation 13 makes an image of this beast in our future? The beast in Daniel is given time, times and a half time and the beast in Revelations is given 42 months, but the two horn beast is not given a given time. Which Daniels forth beast ten horns and the little horn has been, and the false prophet brings it back and then they are both cast into the lake of fire in Revelation 19:20 in light and love Rodron

 

[TribulationSigns]

No. But many others were.

And that is a list of only leaders.

Your turn to answer my questions in post #47.

What are you blabbing about? You asked too many irrelevant questions.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Here I'm just responding to your request to identify in the Bible where the Bible says what the horns are.... Just responding your question and not creating another subject.

Ask yourself, aren't you a bible student? Do you know how to compare Scripture with Scripture and find out what is God's definition for the horn? I am waiting?

I'm just giving another example on how History fulfills prophecy.

No, it is not world history that fulfills God's prophecies. It is Biblical history. Do you know what biblical history is?

We can find in history all the symbols and events of Revelation up to Revelation 16:13.

Really, and do you know what those symbols signify? Show me how you understand it.

My point is that Historicism is the right way to interpret the prophecies for we already have 1000s of years of prophecy fulfilled to prove that.

Ha! What "1000s of years of prophecy fulfilled" is that?! You have not shown a single example that the Scripture confirms.

 

[RACarvalho]

If you have questions about interpretation of Bible symbols you can read:
" Romanism and the Protestant Reformation from the stand point of Prophecy" By Guiness.
https://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/romanism_and_the_reformation.pdf
After that, if you still can't accept that the papacy is the Antichrist, you can read the 5 books of "Horae Apocalipticae" from Bishop where he proves that Historicism is the correct interpretation.
In parallel with that you could at least read book 5 of "The Jewish War" by Josephus together with Mathew 24 , and the complete "The History of Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" by Edward Gibbons.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Little horn is the papacy.

Nowhere in scripture is it declared, insinuated or implied that the little horn is the Papal Dynasty. That is an assumption by men who in principle probably understand Sola Scriptura, and that any false worship, god or teacher is Antichrist. But who in practice, neglect it in localizing the rule of Satan in man. Unfortunately, some have even personified it as pertaining to certain individuals or their systems, when it pertains just as much to Protestant congregations/systems as to Roman Catholic. You think that some Protestant Systems are any less abominable to God and man ruled than the Roman Catholic system. That would be like saying that the gods of the Egyptians were more ungodly than the gods of the Moabites or the Amorites. It is to lack real understanding of the problem of sin, rule, and Satan.

I am Reformed Christian but I don't hold Reformed traditions to be any more authoritative than Roman Catholic traditions. Lest we forget, that's how they went wrong--holding their theologians and traditions up over the Word of God itself. Selah! If they are not firmly written in scripture as the landmarks or border guards of the word, I will not hold to them.

Matthew 15:3

• "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

Good question--I wouldn't, but many Reformers do! The fact is, the Roman Catholic System is not what is causing the great Apostasy in the churches of the world. It already has long ago caused apostasy in its own assemblies, so unless it is now taking over all the Protestant churches, then it doesn't qualify as either the little horn or the man of sin that sits in the Temple to rule in the end of days.

It belongs to the 4th beast, Rome.

Where does it say in Scripture that God sees the fourth beast to represent Rome...literally?

It came small, then pluck 3 in its rising (Heruli, Ostrogods and Vandals)

Do you really understand what the "little horn" means, don't you?

It is a preacher (have a mouth)
It is a religious leader (have eyes)
Speaks blasphemous things - Just check papacy theology about themselves...

Well, it certainly means it's invalid as far as being a firm or solid interpretation since at the very least two of the people you named are definitely wrong! God isn't in the business of prophecy that takes the similitude of a salad bar, where you can take what you like and leave the rest. Giving Christians a variety of options to choose from is decidedly not firm evidence for any of them, it's the very definition of "you don't Know!" A true "firm foundation" is built upon the word of God alone, not speculation that it could be any one of a group of people, whether its Roman emperors or Papal.

Daniel 7:8-9

• "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
• I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."

I do not believe that the thrones that were cast down were any more political thrones than the throne that was then established by the ancient of days sitting was! This was Christ and His throne Scripture prophesied about was not in a political nation of this earth! I believe that this prophecy of Daniel foretold of much more deadly rules that political rule among nations, which deadly rule is a spiritual rule.

 

[RACarvalho]

Nowhere in scripture is it declared, insinuated or implied that the little horn is the Papal Dynasty.

Where in the Bible is said that a church government system called popery is to exist?
Where in the Bible is said that the pope is God on earth?
Where in the Bible is said that the bishops should wage war on those that disagree with them?
Where in the Bible is said that the bishop should burn Bibles and kill those that have them?
Where in the Bible is said that the Church should be a country and own a Bank which is so Corrupt that many banks don't want to work with it....
And so on so on.....
So we have the witnessing of two that the popery is the antichrist....
Jesus said: " By their fruits you should know them...".
where are the fruits, in the Bible or in the history of your (and their) acts???

 

[jgr]

What are you blabbing about? You asked too many irrelevant questions.

Who asked you?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Where in the Bible is said that a church government system called popery is to exist?
Where in the Bible is said that the pope is God on earth?
Where in the Bible is said that the bishops should wage war on those that disagree with them?
Where in the Bible is said that the bishop should burn Bibles and kill those that have them?
Where in the Bible is said that the Church should be a country and own a Bank which is so Corrupt that many banks don't want to work with it....
And so on so on.....
So we have the witnessing of two that the popery is the antichrist....
Jesus said: " By their fruits you should know them...".
where are the fruits, in the Bible or in the history of your (and their) acts???

You got it all backward. Just because your interpretation is not found in the Bible does not mean it is true. LOL

What I was saying is the way the Word is qualified is by other scriptures. God's Word doesn't exist in a vacuum. Do we let scripture interpret scripture, or do we let the Reformers interpret it?

 

[Douggg]

Hey Douggg! Do you think the beast in Revelation is the same forth beast in Daniel 7 that is in our past, that the false prophet (the two-horn beast) in Revelation 13 makes an image of this beast in our future?

Hi Rodron,

Allow me to respond in a more detailed fashion, connecting the Daniel 7 fourth beast and the Revelation beast. As they are the same.


1. Daniel 7's historic Roman Empire - Revelation 17, five fallen, one is king, at the time of John.

2. Daniel 7's end times Roman Empire, the last 7 years - Revelation 12, crowns on the seven heads fulfillment of the 7 kings prophecy, as little horn person has come to power as the leader of the EU, right before the 7 years begin.

3. Daniel 7's end times Roman Empire, midst of the week - Revelation 13, one head wounded/come back to life, as the beast person, ten kings w/crowns to indicate ruling with the beast person.

______________________________________________________________________
Think of the person as going through roles. Transitional roles in blue. To becoming and ending the person's time as the Antichrist, King of Israel, role.

little horn > prince who shall come > Antichrist > revealed man of sin > beast

King of the Roman Empire end times > King of Israel Antichrist > King of the Roman Empire end times

leader of the EU > King of Israel Antichrist > leader of the EU, kingdom of the beast.

The beast in Daniel is given time, times and a half time and the beast in Revelations is given 42 months, but the two horn beast is not given a given time. Which Daniels forth beast ten horns and the little horn has been, and the false prophet brings it back and then they are both cast into the lake of fire in Revelation 19:20 in light and love Rodron

I don't know if the false prophet will claim to bring the slain revealed man of sin back to life or not.

The little horn person in Daniel 7, after he is killed in the midst of the week, and comes back to life a few days later, becoming the beast person - persecutes the saints who do not worship him and his image.

The time, times, half time factor is because the image, a statue, will be incarnated by Satan, who will be cast down, restricted to earth for a time, times, half time in Revelation 12:14.
___________________________________________________________________________________

The false prophet is not in Daniel 7. Nor is the full compliment of the 7 kings. Only the little horn.

The Jews, Judaism, are looking for Elijah to come before the messianic age begins.

The Jews expect a known prophet, which the obvious candidate would be Elijah the prophet, to anoint the messiah person and make him the King of Israel.

Becoming the King of Israel is actually what makes the person the Anti-christ. Some one who will be anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against Jesus, the rightful King of Israel. That Antichrist role will last around 3 years, before the person gets impeached so to speak by the Jews, for claiming to have achieved God-hood.

Therefore, I believe the false prophet in his time before the Revelation 13 forty two months, will falsely claim to be Elijah the real prophet and will anoint the person following the Gog/Magog event as the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews.

 

[jgr]

You got it all backward. Just because your interpretation is not found in the Bible does not mean it is true. LOL

What I was saying is the way the Word is qualified is by other scriptures. God's Word doesn't exist in a vacuum. Do we let scripture interpret scripture, or do we let the Reformers interpret it?

The freedom to indulge in armchair pseudospiritual reveries today is directly attributable to the faith, vision, and sacrifice of the Reformers.

They knew nothing of reveries, only the realities of stakes, flames, suffering, and death.

So that modernists could disparage their memories.

The epitome of despicability.

 

[Rodron]

Hi Rodron,

Allow me to respond in a more detailed fashion, connecting the Daniel 7 fourth beast and the Revelation beast. As they are the same.


1. Daniel 7's historic Roman Empire - Revelation 17, five fallen, one is king, at the time of John.

2. Daniel 7's end times Roman Empire, the last 7 years - Revelation 12, crowns on the seven heads fulfillment of the 7 kings prophecy, as little horn person has come to power as the leader of the EU, right before the 7 years begin.

3. Daniel 7's end times Roman Empire, midst of the week - Revelation 13, one head wounded/come back to life, as the beast person, ten kings w/crowns to indicate ruling with the beast person.

______________________________________________________________________
Think of the person as going through roles. Transitional roles in blue. To becoming and ending the person's time as the Antichrist, King of Israel, role.

little horn > prince who shall come > Antichrist > revealed man of sin > beast

King of the Roman Empire end times > King of Israel Antichrist > King of the Roman Empire end times

leader of the EU > King of Israel Antichrist > leader of the EU, kingdom of the beast.
Thanks Doug! My understanding is some different, but looking at your views helps. Sometime other views shine a light to a better understanding even if the views are different in part. Still putting some things together will share more soon. Thanks again for your reply. in light and love Rodron


I don't know if the false prophet will claim to bring the slain revealed man of sin back to life or not.

The little horn person in Daniel 7, after he is killed in the midst of the week, and comes back to life a few days later, becoming the beast person - persecutes the saints who do not worship him and his image.

The time, times, half time factor is because the image, a statue, will be incarnated by Satan, who will be cast down, restricted to earth for a time, times, half time in Revelation 12:14.
___________________________________________________________________________________

The false prophet is not in Daniel 7. Nor is the full compliment of the 7 kings. Only the little horn.

The Jews, Judaism, are looking for Elijah to come before the messianic age begins.

The Jews expect a known prophet, which the obvious candidate would be Elijah the prophet, to anoint the messiah person and make him the King of Israel.

Becoming the King of Israel is actually what makes the person the Anti-christ. Some one who will be anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against Jesus, the rightful King of Israel. That Antichrist role will last around 3 years, before the person gets impeached so to speak by the Jews, for claiming to have achieved God-hood.

Therefore, I believe the false prophet in his time before the Revelation 13 forty two months, will falsely claim to be Elijah the real prophet and will anoint the person following the Gog/Magog event as the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews.

 

[Rodron]

Thanks Doug! My understanding is some different, but looking at your views helps. Sometime other views shine a light to a better understanding even if the views are different in part. Still putting some things together will share more soon. Thanks again for your reply. in light and love Rodron

 

[Douggg]

Thanks Doug! My understanding is some different, but looking at your views helps. Sometime other views shine a light to a better understanding even if the views are different in part. Still putting some things together will share more soon. Thanks again for your reply. in light and love Rodron

Okay, put it together and let me know what you have concluded.

It took me about 50 years. Of course, I am not taking personal credit at all, God lead me through. Which has helped me in the patience area when discussing these topics with other. I see we are about the same age, I am 70.

Here is a chart I made of the person's path to his destruction and all of the time frames in Revelation.