The Light of the Body

[Loudmouth]

If something is incredible, shouldn't it be met with incredulity?

BTW, natural selection is just another word for magic.

Natural selection is an observed process. Selection for mouse fur color in wild populations is a perfect example.

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/9/5268.full

As you can see above, on dark basalt rock outcroppings the dark color is strongly selected for. In the surrounding light colored desert you find the light colored mice. The paper cited above used mitochondrial DNA testing to demonstrate that there is plenty of cross-breeding between the brown and black populations, and yet the strong positive and negative selection in both environments keeps the phenotypes segregated.

Once again, you are a creationist trying to make the facts go away.

 

[Loudmouth]

The link I provided demonstrates my point. Scientists reduce the (really incalculable) 'odds' against evolution by adding the magic of 'natural selection', and it's all good.

Natural selection is no more magical than gravity, germs, or atoms.

The only evidence for so-called natural selection is the finished product, not any identifiable process.

To believe such a thing would require self-enforced ignorance.

The finished product cries creation not evolution.

Why does a nested hierarchy spanning 3.5 billions years of the geologic record scream "creation"?

 

[sfs]

The link I provided demonstrates my point. Scientists reduce the (really incalculable) 'odds' against evolution by adding the magic of 'natural selection', and it's all good.

Nonsense. If you don't understand what you're citing, don't cite it.

The only evidence for so-called natural selection is the finished product, not any identifiable process. The finished product cries creation not evolution.

Anybody can observe natural selection operating in the laboratory or in the wild with a bit of effort. Denying that natural selection even occurs is simply nuts. Why should anyone pay any attention to anything you write, when you come up with such nonsense?

 

[Loudmouth]

Or is it entire irreducible systems like blood clotting, protein building, fetal development plans, total muscle re-arrangement, scales to feathers, etc.?

We have fossil records of irreducible systems evolving. The best example is the mammalian middle ear. In reptillian ancestors, the middle ear is made up of 1 bone and the lower jaw is made up of 3 bones. In mammals, the irreducibly complex middle ear is made up of 3 bones. If you remove one of those bones the middle ear stops functioning. In the fossil record, we can see the step by step evolution of the mammalian middle ear as two lower jaw bones move up into the middle ear and become important for hearing. There is even an intermediate stage where the bones serve as both a jaw bone and as a middle ear bone.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1

The claim that irreducible systems can not evolve is a bunch of hooey.

 

[Strathos]

Someone is seriously denying that natural selection exists? Most creationists just say that it can't lead to changes between "kinds" (however they define those), but not saying that it completely doesn't exist.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Natural selection is an observed process. Selection for mouse fur color in wild populations is a perfect example.

The genetic basis of adaptive melanism in pocket mice

As you can see above, on dark basalt rock outcroppings the dark color is strongly selected for. In the surrounding light colored desert you find the light colored mice. The paper cited above used mitochondrial DNA testing to demonstrate that there is plenty of cross-breeding between the brown and black populations, and yet the strong positive and negative selection in both environments keeps the phenotypes segregated.

Once again, you are a creationist trying to make the facts go away.

I guessing that low survival rates for mice whose coloration contrasts with their environment (easily seen and eaten) is more responsible than the background color of that environment. If this is 'natural selection' at work I agree. The predators 'select' the easy prey leaving the more difficult prey to pass on their coloration.

 

[Loudmouth]

I guessing that low survival rates for mice whose coloration contrasts with their environment (easily seen and eaten) is more responsible than the background color of that environment. If this is 'natural selection' at work I agree. The predators 'select' the easy prey leaving the more difficult prey to pass on their coloration.

More importantly, it isn't magic.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nonsense. If you don't understand what you're citing, don't cite it.


Anybody can observe natural selection operating in the laboratory or in the wild with a bit of effort. Denying that natural selection even occurs is simply nuts. Why should anyone pay any attention to anything you write, when you come up with such nonsense?

'Natural selection' denies cause and effect. It's a mysterious process that has no reason to function. Purposeful creation on the other hand is the logical explanation for change or improvement of an organism over time. The question is a simple one; either the organism changed or improved itself at the most fundamental level, of it's own volition, or an external force did it. It's not illogical to credit an external force when one can perceive intelligent planning in the effort.

 

[Loudmouth]

'Natural selection' denies cause and effect. It's a mysterious process that has no reason to function.

I just showed you natural selection with caue and effect which had reason to function.

The genetic basis of adaptive melanism in pocket mice

Purposeful creation on the other hand is the logical explanation for change or improvement of an organism over time.

When has action by a supernatural deity ever been the logical explanation for anything?

The question is a simple one; either the organism changed or improved itself at the most fundamental level, of it's own volition, or an external force did it.

The evidence demonstrates that beneficial mutations are random with respect to fitness. We observe them happening, as in the case of the pocket mice and the beneficial mutations that led to dark coloration.

It's not illogical to credit an external force when one can perceive intelligent planning in the effort.

If it was intelligent planning, then why did the two separate populations of black mice have different mutations leading to black fur?

"We conducted association studies by using markers in candidate pigmentation genes and discovered four mutations in the melanocortin-1-receptor gene, Mc1r, that seem to be responsible for adaptive melanism in one population of lava-dwelling pocket mice. Interestingly, another melanic population of these mice on a different lava flow shows no association with Mc1r mutations, indicating that adaptive dark color has evolved independently in this species through changes at different genes."
The genetic basis of adaptive melanism in pocket mice

 

[sfs]

'Natural selection' denies cause and effect.

Your statement makes no sense. It has nothing to do with reality.

It's a mysterious process that has no reason to function.

It's a perfectly simple process that a 6th grader can understand.

 

[rockytopva]

An evidence of creation is in the tears in the eye. The eye's lacrimal fluid must keep its oil like properties to keep the eye lubricated and from drying out. Without this chemistry the eye will dry out and become very ugly!

The study of tears... The eye is lubricated through the lacrimal glands which secrete lacrimal fluid, which flows through the main excretory ducts into the space between the eyeball and lids. When the eyes blink, the lacrimal fluid is spread across the surface of the eye. Lacrimal fluid gathers in the lacrimal lake, and is drawn into the puncta by capillary action, then flows through the lacrimal canaliculi at the inner corner of the eyelids entering the lacrimal sac, then on to the nasolacrimal duct, and finally into the nasal cavity. An excess of tears, as with strong emotion, can thus cause the nose to run.

Joseph Stromberg of the Smithsonian’s Collage of Arts and Sciences explained that there are three major types of tears: basal, reflex, and psychic (triggered by emotions). All tears contain organic substances including oils, antibodies, and enzymes and are suspended in salt water. Different types of tears have distinct molecules. Emotional tears have protein-based hormones including the neurotransmitter leucine enkephalin, which is a natural painkiller that is released when we are stressed. Plus, the tears seen under the microscope are crystallized salt and can lead to different shapes and forms. So even psychic tears with the same chemical composition can look very different. Fisher said, “There are so many variables—there’s the chemistry, the viscosity, the setting, the evaporation rate and the settings of the microscope.”

Like snow flakes and fingerprints, no tears are alike.


Sources...

Looking At Tears Under A Microscope Reveals A Shocking Fact.
Rose-Lynn Fisher /Topography of Tears
Tears - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Loudmouth]

An evidence of creation is in the tears in the eye.

Then disproof is the lack of lacrimal glands in the eye of the planaria.

 

[rockytopva]

Then disproof is the lack of lacrimal glands in the eye of the planaria.

The planaria does have mucous glands. Furthermore for such a creature to see, navigate, feed itself, and reproduce on such a tiny system is as big a miracle as the human itself!

 

[Loudmouth]

The planaria does have mucous glands.

But no lacrimal gland. Therefore, life is not designed.

Furthermore for such a creature to see, navigate, feed itself, and reproduce on such a tiny system is as big a miracle as the human itself!

Funny how you claim that eyes require all of these parts, and the planarian eye does not have all of those parts. So much for the irreducibly complex argument.

Also, calling something a "miracle" does not make the scientific evidence go away.

 

[rockytopva]

But no lacrimal gland. Therefore, life is not designed.

Funny how you claim that eyes require all of these parts, and the planarian eye does not have all of those parts. So much for the irreducibly complex argument.

Also, calling something a "miracle" does not make the scientific evidence go away.

God did get better with time...

Fifth Day - Sea creatures
Sixth Day - Land creatures

On the sixth day came the ability to see in color! And a big brain to make sense of the electronic data the eye sends its way! With the advanced eye on land requires a whole new set of chemistry and design! Intelligent design!

 

[Loudmouth]

God did get better with time...

Fifth Day - Sea creatures
Sixth Day - Land creatures

Hmmm, designs improving over time . . . that sounds like evolution, not creation.

 

[rockytopva]

Hmmm, designs improving over time . . . that sounds like evolution, not creation.

Humans too evolved over time... Because they had a brain to do so! And it did take intelligent design to create the cones inside the eye to see colored vision and for the mind to make sense of it. And it takes a whole lot of processing for the mind to make sense of what comes over today's electronic networks!

The creatures also have unique additions. Eagles have eyelids that close during sleep. For blinking, they also have an inner eyelid called a nictitating membrane. Every three or four seconds, the nictitating membrane slides across the eye from front to back, wiping dirt and dust from the cornea. Because the membrane is translucent, the eagle can see even while it is over the eye.

Eagles, like all birds, have color vision. An eagle's eye is almost as large as a human's, but its sharpness is at least four times that of a person with perfect vision. The eagle can probably identify a rabbit moving almost a mile away. That means that an eagle flying at an altitude of 1000 feet over open country could spot prey over an area of almost 3 square miles from a fixed position.

The nictitating membrane

 

[Loudmouth]

Humans too evolved over time... Because they had a brain to do so!

Their brains evolved over time, as shown by the increase in cranium size over 3 million years.

And it did take intelligent design to create the cones inside the eye to see colored vision and for the mind to make sense of it.

Based on what evidence?

And it takes a whole lot of processing for the mind to make sense of what comes over today's electronic networks!

The vast majority of life on Earth doesn't even have a brain.

The creatures also have unique additions. Eagles have eyelids that close during sleep. For blinking, they also have an inner eyelid called a nictitating membrane. Every three or four seconds, the nictitating membrane slides across the eye from front to back, wiping dirt and dust from the cornea. Because the membrane is translucent, the eagle can see even while it is over the eye.

So only the eagle has the features? Is that really what you think?

Eagles, like all birds, have color vision. An eagle's eye is almost as large as a human's, but its sharpness is at least four times that of a person with perfect vision.

God loves eagles more than humans?

 

[rockytopva]

Their brains evolved over time, as shown by the increase in cranium size over 3 million years.

If the human being were on the earth that many years he would have long ago became an instinct species.

 

[Loudmouth]

If the human being were on the earth that many years he would have long ago became an instinct species.

An "instinct" species? How so?