The Lie of Evolution

If you disagree, why?

  • I agree

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • I disagree

    Votes: 8 44.4%

  • Total voters
    18

One Of The Elect

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Pay close attention because this is about as fundamental as it gets:

Lamarck was the first man whose conclusions on the subject excited much attention. This justly-celebrated naturalist first published his views in 1801; he much enlarged them in 1809 in his "Philosophie Zoologique,' and subsequently, in 1815, in the Introduction to his "Hist. Nat. des Animaux sans Vertébres.' In these works he upholds the doctrine that species, including man, are descended from other species. He first did the eminent service of arousing attention to the probability of all change in the organic, as well as in the inorganic world, being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition. (Darwin, On the Origin of Species, preface)
Darwin attributed this philosophy of zoology to Lamarck. What Lamarck was insisting on is that all species, including man, are descended from other species and not the result of miracles. Now Malthus had observed that there is a tendency of living things to reproduce beyond the ability of resources to sustain them, the result is a struggle for existence. What Darwin popularized were the naturalistic assumptions, that's really all there is to it.



Just a couple of things here, first DNA always comes from the parents and they are loaded with molecular mechanisms that make proteins, there are housekeeping and repair genes and a vast array of functions and systems. They are not self organizing, DNA follows a specific series of highly detailed functions, the idea that they simply organized at random is contrary to everything science has discovered about how it works.

Now as far as the fossil record it is very clear, but the fossil record has been misrepresented. My focus has been human evolution, I focused mostly on hominid fossils and comparative DNA. This is what I found regarding the fossil record.

Perhaps the longest running demonstration was easily the Piltdown fraud. The Piltdown Hoax was the flagship transitional of Darwinism for nearly half a century and it was a hoax. A skull taken from a mass grave site used during the Black Plague matched up with an orangutan jawbone. Even Louis Leakey, the famous paleontologist, had said that jaw didn’t belong with that skull so people knew, long before it was exposed, that Piltdown was contrived.

Leakey mentions the Piltdown skull in his book 'Adam's Ancestors':

'If the lower jaw really belongs to the same individual as the skull, then the Piltdown man is unique in all humanity. . . It is tempting to argue that the skull, on the one hand, and the jaw, on the other, do not belong to the same creature. Indeed a number of anatomists maintain that the skull and jaw cannot belong to the same individual and they see in the jaw and canine tooth evidence of a contemporary anthropoid ape.'​

He referred to the whole affair as an enigma: In By the Evidence he says 'I admit . . . that I was foolish enough never to dream, even for a moment, that the true explanation lay in a deliberate forgery.' (Leakey and Piltdown)​

The problem was that there was nothing to replace it as a transitional from ape to man. Concurrent with the prominence of the Piltdown fossil Raymond Dart had reported on the skull of an ape that had filled with lime creating an endocast or a model of what the brain would have looked like. Everyone considered it a chimpanzee child since it’s cranial capacity was just over 400cc but with the demise of Piltdown, a new icon was needed in the Darwinian theater of the mind. Raymond Dart suggests to Louis Leakey that a small brained human ancestor might have been responsible for some of the supposed tools the Leaky family was finding in Africa. The myth of the stone age ape man was born.

Every time a chimpanzee fossil is dug up in Africa it's automatically one of our ancestors. There are two chimpanzee fossils I know of for sure that are being passed off as our ancestors. Darwinian evolution is a fraud and a myth.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Your right it is as fundamental as it gets , and the dumbing down of people is as real as it gets. You have not proven DNA is added but inherited and I can not figure out if you are supporting man has evolved from primates. I do not accept this faithless based communities opinion . See, I believe in the supernatural . I believe the book of Enoch. And what it states about the Watchers. They messed with the DNA of God's creation. If science finds an animal with some human traits I believe it is a Nephilim. You can not disprove that. Scripture says Enoch walked with God. This is a Christian forum I base my opinions on my Judaeo Christian faith.

Just like the extraterrestrial nonsense that some in science push, I simply do not ascribe to. I believe all extraterrestrials are demons ( Fallen Angels ) as in the ancient times. Even (Lucy) which science says is a missing link because she only has 2% less DNA strands than humans , I believe she is a Nephilim.

Science buries any proof which supports biblical accounts of the world. They placed in the Smithsonian archives evidence of Giants and the DNA of the Nephilim which has proven to have DNA of an unknown origin. And hide the DNA of species found to be almost human. Human is human, that is it. I completely disagree with sciences opinion as to mans origin. And science denies God. God is never taught within science in school. Just as well though because then it would be trying to intertwine a lie with Him.
 
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mark kennedy

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Your right it is as fundamental as it gets , and the dumbing down of people is as real as it gets. You have not proven DNA is added but inherited and I can not figure out if you are supporting man has evolved from primates. I do not accept this faithless based communities opinion . See, I believe in the supernatural . I believe the book of Enoch. And what it states about the Watchers. They messed with the DNA of God's creation. If science finds an animal with some human traits I believe it is a Nephilim. You can not disprove that. Scripture says Enoch walked with God. This is a Christian forum I base my opinions on my Judaeo Christian faith.

Ok, I've studied enough about DNA to know there is no DNA writing mechanism in the genome. They do have an editing tool in labs, it's called the Crispur gene and it can literally edit any sequence of DNA. I don't know what Enoch has to do with this:

And all shall be smitten with fear
And the Watchers shall quake,
And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. (Enoch 1:5)​

I don't know who the watchers are but they died in the flood.

Just like the extraterrestrial nonsense that some in science push, I simply do not ascribe to. I believe all extraterrestrials are demons ( Fallen Angels ) as in the ancient times. Even (Lucy) which science says is a missing link because she only has 2% less DNA strands than humans , I believe she is a Nephilim.

The Nephilim were the offspring of the godly line who had gone rouge, they were the descendants of Jared according to Enoch. It was some kind of a conspiracy to create an antediluvian master race. Lucy is simply a chimpanzee ancestor, she was more bipedal then modern chimpanzees but in all other ways an anatomically perfect ape.

Science buries any proof which supports biblical accounts of the world. They placed in the Smithsonian archives evidence of Giants and the DNA of the Nephilim which has proven to have DNA of an unknown origin. And hide the DNA of species found to be almost human. Human is human, that is it. I completely disagree with sciences opinion as to mans origin. And science denies God. God is never taught within science in school. Just as well though because then it would be trying to intertwine a lie with Him.

Goliath was like nine foot tall, there were still giants in David's time. In the time of Joshua they saw the size of their warriors and thought they had no chance fighting them. The mixing of seed is simply intermarriage:

"For they have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed is mixed with the peoples of those lands. Indeed, the hand of the leaders and rulers has been foremost in this
trespass." (Ezra 9:2)

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, just as iron is not mixed with clay." (Dan 2:43)
I do believe that it's just a question of time before the start genetically engineering human hybrids. The genetic mutations will be devastating but I doubt seriously there is any avoiding it.
 
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One Of The Elect

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Ok, I've studied enough about DNA to know there is no DNA writing mechanism in the genome. They do have an editing tool in labs, it's called the Crispur gene and it can literally edit any sequence of DNA. I don't know what Enoch has to do with this:

And all shall be smitten with fear
And the Watchers shall quake,
And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. (Enoch 1:5)​

I don't know who the watchers are but they died in the flood.



The Nephilim were the offspring of the godly line who had gone rouge, they were the descendants of Jared according to Enoch. It was some kind of a conspiracy to create an antediluvian master race. Lucy is simply a chimpanzee ancestor, she was more bipedal then modern chimpanzees but in all other ways an anatomically perfect ape.



Goliath was like nine foot tall, there were still giants in David's time. In the time of Joshua they saw the size of their warriors and thought they had no chance fighting them. The mixing of seed is simply intermarriage:

"For they have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed is mixed with the peoples of those lands. Indeed, the hand of the leaders and rulers has been foremost in this
trespass." (Ezra 9:2)

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, just as iron is not mixed with clay." (Dan 2:43)
I do believe that it's just a question of time before the start genetically engineering human hybrids. The genetic mutations will be devastating but I doubt seriously there is any avoiding it.


Say whatever about Lucy she was promoted by science as a missing link. The Nephilim are the offspring of the Sons of God (Angels) who left their former estate and knew the daughters of men. The mixing is still going to come through the mark of the beast which is revealed in the story of Jacob and Esau and the meaning of the (RED STEW ESAU ATE IN HASTE) .

The beast system mark will be a Nephilim Mark in the flesh that has been in development for a while now or rather is complete. Actually, I believe some elite at the top of the pyramid already have it, that is why they will promote it when the beast out of the earth rises or out of the abyss and kills the witnesses. Rev. 11

People will take the mark under duress and hastily receive this non- kosher mark, rendering them irredeemable. Thanks to the science community under the influence of the fallen ones, man will become irredeemably corrupted. The end game? Souls! Game Over! The mark will come after the blow to the head which is coming to the beast of the sea, Rev13.

After a period, (a nourishment period away from the system) the beast will rise up out of the earth. The sixth seal Rev.6:12 tells why the kings and generals, rich and free hide in the mountains and under them, it is because a blow is coming.The 1st trumpet is part of this too. It is the first woe Rev. 12:11. Satan will be cast down and will not be able to even ascend to the first heaven, what man calls space. The Book of Enoch speaks to the different levels of heaven.

We know Lucifer was cast out of the 10th heaven which is where the throne of God is. Up to the point that is coming, he has been able to stand before the gates of heaven accusing and speaking blasphemy to the saints of God in heaven. That is coming to an end. Michael will cast him down and he will now take a third of cosmic bodies with him. He already took a third of the heavenly angels with him when he was cast down at the fall of man.

The sign to the Bride Church that satan has been cast down will be the effects of the 1st trumpet and sixth seal. The Bride will not go into the earth but, will be protect like the Hebrews of Goshen Egypt. They will hide themselves in their homes and pray unceasingly during this earthquake and darkness. Like in Egypt many will die who are not preserved by God's grace, not all, but many. The Elect spoken of by Enoch will survive this wrath of God.

When this beast system rises out of the earth they will force a mark through not allowing people to receive basic commodities.( Book of Daniel ), you think Daniel was sickened and grieved by what the Lord showed concerning the future how much more should we be? The Rev12 sign of Sept23 2017 is the sign which tells the Bride we are heading into a calamitous time. Glorify the Lord, make sure your election, time is short.

The GREAT PORTENT HAS BEEN REVEALED! Any time from its completion on- the the sign of satan's casting down will occur. For the Illuminati or Masonic (Satanist) they feel it is the arrival of their lord. It is at this point satan will be embodied in a man. That is why they go underground in their bunkers they have been building for years.

The Witnesses come on the scene during the nourishment time for the Bride. Think about it. The beast out of the abyss kills them after their time of prophesy is up.Rev.11:7-14 So, they must come on the scene after the first Woe , Rev12:11 and 1st trumpet and sixth seal. Because the second Woe happens after their resurrection . During their prophesy they can smite man with plagues and punishment like Moses. A lot is coming to the earth. God Bless you and yours!
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Galileo had the second telescope ever invented, most astronomers believed the sun revolved around the earth. He wasn't arguing anything biblical, or against anything biblical, he argued for the principles of motion and a heliocentric model of cosmology.

That's not what the clerics of his time said, both catholic and protestant; they all asserted he was denying scripture, pointing to the place where it says Joshua commanded the sun to stand still; they said Copernicus and Gallileo were unbiblical and they denied their science.

Exactly like you today, for the same reasons as you today, and making the same mistake as you today.
 
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mark kennedy

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That's not what the clerics of his time said, both catholic and protestant; they all asserted he was denying scripture, pointing to the place where it says Joshua commanded the sun to stand still; they said Copernicus and Gallileo were unbiblical and they denied their science.

Exactly like you today, for the same reasons as you today, and making the same mistake as you today.
No, Galileo was a devout Catholic with 6 audiences with Pope Urbane. He argued in Piza against Aristotelian scholasticism, there was an on going effort to salvage it from the new physics that was emerging with the Y-squared. When they couldn't refute him rationally they pulled some strings and whispered in Urban's ear that he was a Protestant, Urban allowed the trial. Galileo was sponsored by the famous Medici family and had tutored a number of princes in the Netherlands who sent a letter asking Galileo be shown mercy. He was ordered to recant his writings which was nonsense, his work was out there and Jesuits were not far behind him with the heliocentric model.

You obviously don't know your history or you wouldn't be resorting to such a shallow equivocation fallacy this early in the discussion.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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No, Galileo was a devout Catholic with 6 audiences with Pope Urbane. He argued in Piza against Aristotelian scholasticism, there was an on going effort to salvage it from the new physics that was emerging with the Y-squared. When they couldn't refute him rationally they pulled some strings and whispered in Urban's ear that he was a Protestant, Urban allowed the trial. Galileo was sponsored by the famous Medici family and had tutored a number of princes in the Netherlands who sent a letter asking Galileo be shown mercy. He was ordered to recant his writings which was nonsense, his work was out there and Jesuits were not far behind him with the heliocentric model.

You obviously don't know your history or you wouldn't be resorting to such a shallow equivocation fallacy this early in the discussion.

How devout he was has nothing to do with clerics denying his findings
It wasn't just Gallileo, it was Copernicus and other scientists
It wasn't just papists, it was protestants clerics as well
The comparisons are inevitable and telling
 
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mark kennedy

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How devout he was has nothing to do with clerics denying his findings
It wasn't just Gallileo, it was Copernicus and other scientists
It wasn't just papists, it was protestants clerics as well
The comparisons are inevitable and telling
Copernicus kept his ideas secret for a long time but it slipped out, it was unpopular but speculative. Supposedly Kepler was excommunicated from the Lutheran church but I'm not sure what that was all about. During the Scientific Revolution there were terrible wars, the Thirty Years War in Germany and the Civil War in England. Make no mistake, had there been no Protestant Reformation there would have been no Scientific Revolution or democracy for that matter. Your not actually comparing anything here, again, you simply don't know your history. What changed with science is that it was no longer just any body of knowledge, including theology, which was called queen of the sciences. Francis Bacon suggested the approach should be exclusively inductive and died from an experiment he did in the snow, buck naked, something to do with hypothermia.

The best things to come out of the Scientific Revolution were the principles of motion, what we now call physics. Then there was Descartes who developed the X axis in Algebra and finally Newton developed the Y-squared in motion, aka, calculus.

It's remarkable that so many posters act as if they have to defend science from this mob of religious zealots, yet the zealots are in their imagination only. Science is about tools, mental and physical, telescopes and microscopes and the giant leap in mathematics were the prize. The situation with religious wars was almost exclusively secular and had very little to do with the doctrine of creation, if anything at all.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Copernicus kept his ideas secret for a long time but it slipped out, it was unpopular but speculative.

And why did he keep his ideas secret so long? Fear of what church authorities would say. "Unpopular"? Is that the standard by which you judge scientific ideas? Science uses conformity to reality.

Make no mistake, had there been no Protestant Reformation there would have been no Scientific Revolution or democracy for that matter.
Well, maybe it would have taken longer. I am proud of how Christianity taught people God is faithful and we can therefore trust Him to be consistent in how the universe runs . . .preparing people to accept discovery of scientific laws.

Your not actually comparing anything here, again, you simply don't know your history.

Sure I am. I am comparing the discovery of evolution to the earlier discoveries about the solar system. I am comparing the rejection of the earlier discoveries about the solar system by clerics to the rejection of evolution today by such as you.

And it seems to me for you to say "you are not actually comparing anything here" . . . is flatly wrong because clearly I am making a comparison. I advise the world to judge your reasoning ability by such a statement and understand how you can be very, very wrong.

What changed with science is that it was no longer just any body of knowledge, including theology, which was called queen of the sciences. Francis Bacon suggested the approach should be exclusively inductive and died from an experiment he did in the snow, buck naked, something to do with hypothermia.

What's that all about? Denial of scientific findings by ridicule?

It's remarkable that so many posters act as if they have to defend science from this mob of religious zealots, yet the zealots are in their imagination only.

And yet here you are, zealously denying the findings of the biological sciences.
 
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NobleMouse

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I'm going to start with my ending statement first, then go on to explain why:

If one accepts the ideas of science over the truths of the Bible, one must introspectively ask themselves why they accept the truth of the Bible about their sin nature, their need for a savior, the hope they can have of eternal life through Jesus Christ, yet not trust that God would be true to explain how and when He created all things.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In less than 90 posts since the OP by @One Of The Elect, it would seem we've come to the usual "stall" of determined positions on the topic - I've seen much longer threads before arriving at this state so it would seem we're getting more efficient : )

Regardless of how technical, how complex, or how intelligent of a response given, the issue as to whether evolution is a lie (or true) comes down to authority of how and where you personally derive your source of truth: The Bible (wisdom of God) vs wisdom of man (science). The Bible really is clear on the topic and does not support ideas of evolution nor billions of years.

In support of evolution here, I keep seeing references to terms like "evidence", "hard evidence", and even "real evidence". Evidence is not in question here. No rock, fossil, DNA, etc... comes with a tag telling us evolution/billions of years. Instead one has to infer this conclusion (since neither evolution/billions of years has ever been observed). Yes, I realize some here will scoff at this and insist evolution has been observed and get into yet another technical debate around ideas like micro-evolution and speciation, but variability of life within a kind without crossing any boundaries (what these concepts really are) does not support the idea that people evolved from single-celled organisms; however, does fit with within the framework of "each according to its kind" found throughout Genesis 1.

The usual 'biblical' argument in favor of evolution/billions of years is: "God would be deceptive if what we repeatedly see in evidence is not true, and God is not a liar, so our interpretation of scripture must be wrong." Let's put this into perspective:

1. God is not a liar (we all agree)
2. God's word about His creation is wrong, and the interpretation of evidence by man is correct, or
3. God's word about His creation is correct, and the interpretation of evidence by man is wrong

In a spirit of humility, please allow me to give it to you straight here: Are we really to believe that God's revelation about His creation in His word is not true, but He instead revealed the actual truth consistent as invented in the mind of man about events that were not observed, cannot be proven, and were mentally conceived absent of biblical doctrine? Truth does not first exist outside of the Bible then is inserted into the Bible (ie. trying to reinterpret/redefine scripture contrary to what it means); rather, truth comes from every word of God (see 2 Timothy 3:16), then is to be applied outside of the Bible for our good and His glory.

Ideas like uniformitarianism are not bad, in fact, they help scientists understand what is observed here in the present. There are natural laws that God upholds and this allows scientists to do valid research, invent new things, create new technologies, etc... That said, there is no natural law (for example) that will help explain how you will literally be transported to heaven when your body dies to stand before God. Likewise, we know God did not create the universe (and life) by natural means - He spoke and it was created (see also John 1:1-3). By our voices, you and I cannot create into existence from nothing. Remember, God is a supernatural being and looking to explain creation by natural means will always come to wrong conclusions.

Humbly in Christ,
"Reepicheep"
 
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sfs

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Regardless of how technical, how complex, or how intelligent of a response given, the issue as to whether evolution is a lie (or true) comes down to authority of how and where you personally derive your source of truth: The Bible (wisdom of God) vs wisdom of man (science).
Alternatively, which is your source of truth: God's actual works (the creation), or the words of men about God's work (the Bible)? Or more accurately, some people's interpretation of the words of men about God's work?
 
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NobleMouse

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Alternatively, which is your source of truth: God's actual works (the creation), or the words of men about God's work (the Bible)? Or more accurately, some people's interpretation of the words of men about God's work?
The word of God is not the words of men, but the word of God given to men.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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The word of God is not the words of men, but the word of God given to men.

You can't figure that out to be true unless you accept evidence, therefore you have to reconcile your belief with outside evidence, and you reject tons and tons of outside evidence in order to do so.
 
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NobleMouse

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You can't figure that out to be true unless you accept evidence, therefore you have to reconcile your belief with outside evidence, and you reject tons and tons of outside evidence in order to do so.
I understand where you are coming from brother. I'll challenge the assumption that one cannot ascertain the Bible to be true unless one has external evidence to corroborate. Where's the evidence to support Jesus' miracles; by what natural law do we attribute being told "be healed and go, your sins are forgiven"? To your point though, I don't turn a blind eye to external evidence, I see the same evidence that there are created kinds, with variability within each kind, and this is consistent with the Bible. I see dinosaurs, created as dinosaurs, now extinct. I see dogs, created as dogs - both wild and domesticated, created as dogs - all the same kind and we can have hybrids (variability) within the same kind. Etc... What I've not yet seen is a dog become an entirely new animal over the course of millions of years - this is merely speculation and is not reason to redefine and reinterpret what the Author of life Himself says about life.

If I may be permitted to ask you a direct question (don't feel you owe me an explanation or response - you don't, I'm just curious): Why do you accept the truth of the Bible about your sin nature, your need for a savior, the hope you can have of eternal life through Jesus Christ, yet you do not trust that God would be true and accurate to explain how and when He created all things?

Respectfully in Christ,
"Reepicheep"
 
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Speedwell

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Just for curiosity, what is the alternative to believing that God's word is His word (not man's word) given to man?
One alternative is that it is a people's record of their relationship with God.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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I understand where you are coming from brother. I'll challenge the assumption that one cannot ascertain the Bible to be true unless one has external evidence to corroborate. Where's the evidence to support Jesus' miracles; by what natural law do we attribute being told "be healed and go, your sins are forgiven"?

Well, the mere fact that the bible ascribes miracles to Jesus (and others) is not enough to establish that the bible is God's word, logically, is it? There must be something else.

To your point though, I don't turn a blind eye to external evidence, I see the same evidence that there are created kinds, with variability within each kind, and this is consistent with the Bible. I see dinosaurs, created as dinosaurs, now extinct. I see dogs, created as dogs - both wild and domesticated, created as dogs - all the same kind and we can have hybrids (variability) within the same kind. Etc... What I've not yet seen is a dog become an entirely new animal over the course of millions of years - this is merely speculation and is not reason to redefine and reinterpret what the Author of life Himself says about life.

How long have dogs even been around? Haven't we seen wolves turn into dogs?

If I may be permitted to ask you a direct question (don't feel you owe me an explanation or response - you don't, I'm just curious): Why do you accept the truth of the Bible about your sin nature, your need for a savior, the hope you can have of eternal life through Jesus Christ, yet you do not trust that God would be true and accurate to explain how and when He created all things?

Respectfully in Christ,
"Reepicheep"

I became a Christian because I was raised as a Christian and accepted Christ as my personal Savior at about the age of 9. I accept the truth of the Bible about sin, our Savior, and our eternal life because I asked the Lord to verify for me that these things were true, and He revealed to me these things are true.
 
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NobleMouse

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Well, the mere fact that the bible ascribes miracles to Jesus (and others) is not enough to establish that the bible is God's word, logically, is it? There must be something else.
My intent was to illustrate that we believe Jesus performed miracles without the presence of evidence (so it would seem inconsistent to then not accept the creation account given by God and instead interpret evidence outside of the biblical framework).

Also addressed to @Speedwell and @sfs :
I agree that we see God's relationship to us in his word and that He speaks to us through His word, but at its foundation, God's word is of highest authority on all topics discussed therein (including creation) and should be held in this regard. God's word is God's word on the basis that it claims to be His word (see article):
Does the Bible Claim to Be the Word of God?

How long have dogs even been around? Haven't we seen wolves turn into dogs?
In other words, we've seen variation of the 'dog' kind (species)... this is why domesticated dogs can be bred with wild dogs (wolves)... because they are of the same kind (Genesis 1:24-25) - domesticated dogs are not a new kind separate from wolves. How long has this kind been around? Approx ~6,000 years.

I became a Christian because I was raised as a Christian and accepted Christ as my personal Savior at about the age of 9. I accept the truth of the Bible about sin, our Savior, and our eternal life because I asked the Lord to verify for me that these things were true, and He revealed to me these things are true.
Thank you for sharing your testament, much appreciated!

Addressed to all:
What seems very appropriate for our generation where influential men and women have rebuilt not a literal tower of babel, but a figurative tower of wisdom within the framework of science where ideas of evolution and billions of years have been presented as 'fact' and 'truth', is a review of the account of Job, specifically Job 38-42 (re-read it when you have some time) where God (not man, not a prophet, not a disciple, God himself) is directly addressing Job.

From Job 38:4
"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding."

The truth is, we were not there when God laid the foundation of the earth, we do not have the understanding. 1 Corinthians 3:19 tells us "For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” I've seen it written in other forums by other members and want to echo the sentiment here as well. It would seem that God in His infinite wisdom knew there would be these kinds of debates and He has made it clear how he brought creation about. Knowing the Hebrew word "yom" would be questioned as being a literal 24-hr day, the added context of morning and evening were given in Genesis. Knowing there would come about ideas of billions of years and evolution, we're given the truth in God's word and secular ideas about creation are directly confronted the same way God addressed Job.

Respectfully in Christ,
"Reepicheep"
 
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Speedwell

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Also addressed to @Speedwell and @sfs :
I agree that we see God's relationship to us in his word and that He speaks to us through His word, but at its foundation, God's word is of highest authority on all topics discussed therein (including creation) and should be held in this regard. God's word is God's word on the basis that it claims to be His word (see article):
Does the Bible Claim to Be the Word of God?
Interesting link, which supports a view held by many that the Bible is not itself the word of God in its entirety, but is witness to divine revelation. There's another alternative view for you.

There are other alternatives. For instance, given that a person accepts II Tim 3:16, there are a variety of views as to exactly how God inspired the biblical authors.
 
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