The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Bible Highlighter]

I told you to knock it off.

Brian told me he has a different relationship to the moral law. What does he mean by that? Does that mean he is not under the penalty of the Law? Why don't you privately PM "thatbrian" and ask him if he thinks he can sin on occasion and still be saved.

Brian said elsewwere that he is not justified by his obedience to the Law.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lord-lord-didnt-we.7930134/page-3#post-69229267

This means, that one can live however one pleases because it is not his obedience that justifies him before God.

Besides, this is not my first rodeo. Other Eternal Security Proponents have openly admitted to the fact on another forum that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. Others have admitted that they can be out of fellowship with Jesus and still be saved. Please check out the poll numbers in the follow threads.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...repentant-sin-such-lying-etc-still-saved.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/105849-can-you-out-fellowship-god-still-saved.html

Why do you think it would be any different here?


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[Bible Highlighter]

I'm talking about how you are so 'sin' orientated. It gets tiring reading it and I'm a Christian.

Jesus talked about the consequences of sin. So if you have a problem with it, take it up with Jesus.


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[Marvin Knox]

Here is just one example of a poster here who has admitted that they can continue to do evil and horrible sins and still be saved.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nce-and-for-all.7920118/page-17#post-69210951

I have no problem with what he said in that post.

He did not say, as you accuse your opponents of saying, that there are no consequences for sin or that they have a license to sin.

................Why don't you privately PM "thatbrian" and ask him if he thinks he can sin on occasion and still be saved.....

I don't have to PM him. I already know what he believes about that. I happen to agree with him as do the vast majority of Christians.

That is not the same as saying that there are not consequences for sin or that he has a license to sin.

This means, that one can live however one pleases because it is not his obedience that justifies him before God......

It is not one's obedience that justifies him before God.

Saying that is not the same as saying that there are not consequences for sin or that he has a license to sin.

Besides, this is not my first rodeo. ....

I know.

Your "ministry" is listed as an "anti-OSAS evangelist".

You live to undermine the faith of fellow believers.

Other Eternal Security Proponents have openly admitted to the fact on another forum that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. Others have admitted that they can be out of fellowship with Jesus and still be saved. ............

That is because they know the scriptures.

What they "admit" is not the same as saying that there are not consequences for sin or that he has a license to sin.

Quit lying about what people believe and teach.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have no problem with what he said in that post.

He did not say, as you accuse your opponents of saying, that there are no consequences for sin or that they have a license to sin.

I don't have to PM him. I already know what he believes about that. I happen to agree with him as do the vast majority of Christians.

That is not the same as saying that there are not consequences for sin or that he has a license to sin.

It is not one's obedience that justifies him before God.

Saying that is not the same as saying that there are not consequences for sin or that he has a license to sin.

I know.

Your "ministry" is listed as an "anti-OSAS evangelist".

You live to undermine the faith of fellow believers.

That is because they know the scriptures.

What they "admit" is not the same as saying that there are not consequences for sin or that he has a license to sin.

Quit lying about what people believe and teach.

I am not lying. When I say that they believe they have no consequences to their sin, I meant in the afterlife and not in this life. Again, this is not my first discussion involving people who believe in Eternal Security. I have been talking to them for many years now. I know Eternal Security Proponents believe they will be chastised by God if they continue in sin. But according to some of them, this does not really lead them in being reformed, though. Also, chastisement is not a real deterrent in reforming a believer if sinning is something they really want do not matter what happens. Only punishment in the after life (that has everlasting consequences) is an effective deterrent so as not to make a person think they can sin and still be saved. For even unbelievers go thru the same challenges that believers do (Who might be chastised for sin).

Also, when the Bible says that a believer can stop sinning (1 Peter 4:1) (Galatians 5:24) (John 5:14) (John 8:11) (1 Corinthians 10:13), and a person denies that fact, then there is no acceptable excuse for that person to think they will always be a slave to their sin in this life. For such an excuse would be a license to sin (Whether you are able to recongnize that fact or not).

Besides, other Eternal Security Proponents have openly admitted to the fact on another forum that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. Others have admitted that they can be out of fellowship with Jesus and still be saved. Please check out the poll numbers in the follow threads.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...repentant-sin-such-lying-etc-still-saved.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/105849-can-you-out-fellowship-god-still-saved.html

Why do you think it would be any different here?


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[FreeGrace2]

Brian told me he has a different relationship to the moral law. What does he mean by that? Does that mean he is not under the penalty of the Law? Why don't you privately PM "thatbrian" and ask him if he thinks he can sin on occasion and still be saved.

Why don't you get your own story straight? You've admitted that you haven't reached that rarified state of sinless perfection, yet you've also stated that you consider yourself saved.

So, how does that work. By your own admission, you STILL sin, at least occasionally. So how can you be saved since your comment here indicates that one cannot be saved and still stin occasionally.

This means, that one can live however one pleases because it is not his obedience that justifies him before God.

Why do you continue to reject God's Word on the subject of justification? Don't you know that is SIN?

Gal 2:16 - nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

If your view were correct, why didn't Paul just come out and speak of obedience? He spoke of trusting in Christ. Believing in Christ.

Besides, this is not my first rodeo. Other Eternal Security Proponents have openly admitted to the fact on another forum that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved.

Well, obviously they believe the Scriptures, unlike yourself. They know that eternal life is a gift of God, and that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Others have admitted that they can be out of fellowship with Jesus and still be saved.

Well, your list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. You've done much violence to Scripture. Which is sin. Because it makes satan very happy when those who name the Name of Christ do it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus talked about the consequences of sin. So if you have a problem with it, take it up with Jesus.....

Since you apparently don't read what others post, I'll let you in on something. We ALL agree that Jesus talked about the consequences of sin.

But the Bible NEVER says that one can lose their salvation. Impossible. Why?

Eternal life is irrevocable.

The sealing with the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of God's own possession (note that He owns us, not the other way around) for the day of redemption.

You've completely failed to address either concept to show that my comments aren't what the passages teach.

You just default to your pet verses that you think say what you claim, even though they don't.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am not lying.

It's either a straight out lie or just extreme ignorance of truth. So, which is it?

When I say that they believe they have no consequences to their sin, I meant in the afterlife and not in this life.

I think you need to slow down and actually read what others post to you. I've said repeatedly that the warnings in the NT are about loss of blessings in this life, God's severe discipline in this life and loss of reward eternally. Please start paying attention.

One makes a fool of themselves when they DON'T read what others post, and then make an attempt to claim what others believe.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dear Free Grace:

I am not reading your posts if they are of an average or long length and if there is no Scripture in them. As a matter of fact, I just skim your posts to look for Scripture and respond so as to let others know the truth of God's Word.

May God's love shine upon you.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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[Jack Terrence]

I said this:
"The verse clearly DOES NOT SAY that such a one will not enter the kingdom. It DOES SAY that such a one will have no inheritance IN THE KINGDOM.

Do you see the difference?

Nope, I don't see the difference. Maybe you should ship each of us a pair of FGT glasses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To inherit something means that you will own a part in that thing. If I told you that you were to inherit this land, you would think that you would own that land. If I told that you that you will inherit a small pile of kittens, you would think you would soon to be the owner of some nice furry little creatures. It is no different with the Kingdom of God. If I told you that you were going to inherit the KIngdom of God, that means you are going to take part in ownership of the Kingdom of God on behalf of Jesus Christ. Jesus redeems us and purchases us by His blood and makes us His own. I cannot enter the Kingdom of God and live there and also say I will not inherit the Kingdom of God. That doesn't make any sense.

Galatians 5:21 says, "that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

The verse does not say, "they shall not have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God."
The verse says, "they shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."
Meaning, they shall have no part or ownership in the Kingdom of God (On behalf of Christ) so as to enter it.

Besides, Paul also essentially says in Colossians 3:5-6 that the Wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience for those who do these types of sins, too. So the end result of committing these types of sins (no matter who you are) is still the same.


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[FreeGrace2]

Dear Free Grace:

I am not reading your posts if they are of an average or long length and if there is no Scripture in them. As a matter of fact, I just skim your posts to look for Scripture and respond so as to let others know the truth of God's Word.

It's obvious that you merely skim most of the posts of others. Which is why you've gotten so much flak. You have no idea what others actually believe. You've been too busy pushing your erroneous fantasies of what you think others believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nope, I don't see the difference. Maybe you should ship each of us a pair of FGT glasses.

No special glasses needed. Just an open mind, willing to grasp the truth.

But it's interesting that one would think having no inheritance means no entrance.

Why would anyone equate the 2 words? There's no reason at all.

 

[FreeGrace2]

To inherit something means that you will own a part in that thing. If I told you that you were to inherit this land, you would think that you would own that land. If I told that you that you will inherit a small pile of kittens, you would think you would soon to be the owner of some nice furry little creatures. It is no different with the Kingdom of God. If I told you that you were going to inherit the KIngdom of God, that means you are going to take part in ownership of the Kingdom of God on behalf of Jesus Christ. Jesus redeems us and purchases us by His blood and makes us His own. I cannot enter the Kingdom of God and live there and also say I will not inherit the Kingdom of God. That doesn't make any sense.

Galatians 5:21 says, "that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

The verse does not say, "they shall not have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God."
The verse says, "they shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."
Meaning, they shall have no part or ownership in the Kingdom of God (On behalf of Christ) so as to enter it.

Besides, Paul also essentially says in Colossians 3:5-6 that the Wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience for those who do these types of sins, too. So the end result of committing these types of sins (no matter who you are) is still the same....

There are 3 parallel passages regarding inheritance and loss of an inheritance in the kingdom.

This is how Eph 5:5 says it: For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Notice it doesn't say will not enter the kingdom. It SAYS there will be NO inheritance IN the kingdom.

Why would Paul say "in the kingdom" if his point was not entering the kingdom? He'd have just said that straight out.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I am not lying. When I say that they believe they have no consequences to their sin, I meant in the afterlife and not in this life. ....

Everyone here believes that there will be consequences for their sins in the afterlife.

Are you not reading what other people say?

No one says the things you accuse them of.

Repent and stop lying about us.

I know Eternal Security Proponents believe they will be chastised by God if they continue in sin. But according to some of them, this does not really lead them in being reformed, though. ....

So you have admissions from believers in eternal security who have confided in you that the Lord's chastisement doesn't work on them. Can you provide some material from them on that.

I have clearly told you in the past about how believing as you do drove me into sin and that believing as I do now has kept me in my relationship with the Lord.

Apparently you did not read my post or you did not believe what I said.

Again - perhaps you will share the posts from eternal security advocates that say that the chastisement of the Lord fails with them.

Thanks.

Also, chastisement is not a real deterrent in reforming a believer if sinning is something they really want do not matter what happens. ....

Paul disagrees with you as would the sinner in the Corinthian church who was chastised for and repented of His sin.

Only punishment in the after life (that has everlasting consequences) is an effective deterrent so as not to make a person think they can sin and still be saved. For even unbelievers go thru the same challenges that believers do (Who might be chastised for sin).....

That makes no sense.

But, if you are saying that only the threat of Hell will make a person serve the Lord, my life is living proof that that is simply not true.

Also, when the Bible says that a believer can stop sinning (1 Peter 4:1) (Galatians 5:24) (John 5:14) (John 8:11) (1 Corinthians 10:13), and a person denies that fact, then there is no acceptable excuse for that person to think they will always be a slave to their sin in this life. For such an excuse would be a license to sin (Whether you are able to recongnize that fact or not).....

I have no problem with the idea that a person can stop sinning. I have never said that.

Most would agree that never sinning again in this life is an unreasonable expectation. But that would not be a license for them to sin - nor would they say that it was.

Besides, other Eternal Security Proponents have openly admitted to the fact on another forum that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. Others have admitted that they can be out of fellowship with Jesus and still be saved. Please check out the poll numbers in the follow threads........Why do you think it would be any different here?....

I don't.

That is because those people, just like the people here, are correct about that.

You, on the other hand are desperately wrong about that.

 

[Thursday]

No special glasses needed. Just an open mind, willing to grasp the truth.

.

You are the one with the closed mind.

You ignore dozens of scriptures that prove your dogma wrong.

1 Cor 6:9
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Ephesians 5:5
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a person is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

 

[Jack Terrence]

No special glasses needed. Just an open mind, willing to grasp the truth.

But it's interesting that one would think having no inheritance means no entrance.

Why would anyone equate the 2 words? There's no reason at all.

This is FGT artificial distinction. Paul goes on to warn them to not be deceived with empty words because the wrath of God comes upon those who do such things. In other words, they were warned to not listen to people like you. Your empty words nullify the warning.

Furthermore, the "inheritance" is NOT things but is God and Christ. Paul said that we are joint heirs together of God and of Christ (Romans 8:16-17 Young's Literal Translation). Therefore, those who do such things will not inherit God and Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are the one with the closed mind.

You ignore dozens of scriptures that prove your dogma wrong.

The closed minds are those who reject the biblical facts that eternal life is a gift of God from Rom 6:23. And that God's gifts are irrevocable from Rom 11:29.

1 Cor 6:9
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Ephesians 5:5
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a person is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

1 Cor 6:9 parallels Gal 5:19-22 and Eph 5:5. It's about not having an inheritance IN the kingdom. It's not about not getting INTO the kingdom.

Not sure how Gal 6:7 relates to the discussion. Please clarify.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is FGT artificial distinction.[/QU0TE]
This is another opinion.

Paul goes on to warn them to not be deceived with empty words because the wrath of God comes upon those who do such things. In other words, they were warned to not listen to people like you. Your empty words nullify the warning.

Another opinion. Are there any biblical facts that you'd like to share, or are you just wanting to release some of your opinions?

Furthermore, the "inheritance" is NOT things but is God and Christ. Paul said that we are joint heirs together of God and of Christ (Romans 8:16-17 Young's Literal Translation). Therefore, those who do such things will not inherit God and Christ.

Apparently you don't understand what being a joint heir means. And Rom 8:17 doesn't say "of Christ". Please don't misquote Scripture.

8:17 - and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

There are 2 different heirs in this verse. The first heir is because we are children of God. And that means all who have believed in Christ will be with God in eternity.

The second is conditional. Believers will be "fellow heirs WITH Christ, IF INDEED believers suffer with Him". This is parallel to what Paul wrote to Timothy in 2 Tim 2:12 - If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Note the conditional phrases. To "endure" is the same as "if indeed we suffer with Him". The result of suffering with Him or enduring is reigning with Him. Only those believers who endure will be "fellow heirs WITH Christ".

However, those believers who don't endure by denying Him (not suffering with Him) will be denied the privilege of reigning WITH Him.

 

[Jack Terrence]

FG2, For some reason I could not quote your post. You said that I was just speaking my opinion. Hey, let's not forget that it is your theology is the "new kid on the block." Paul told them that if they did such things that they would have no inheritance in the kingdom. Then he warned them to not be deceived by "empty words" because the wrath of God comes upon them that do such things. Your artificial distinction between inheriting the kingdom and having an inheritance in the kingdom is an example of the "empty words" Paul was speaking about. So, I don't buy your FGT snake oil. You have a lot of nerve telling me that I am just speaking my opinion when your theology is still new and has not yet withstood the test of time. It certainly does not stand under the scrutiny of scripture.

Your sloppy exposition implies that Paul's warning has no teeth because for us to lose "things" is no consequence at all because "things" are NOT our inheritance at all. Our inheritance is God and Christ.

and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ -- if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together. Romans 8:17, Young's Literal Translation

Note: Paul said that we "may" be glorified together.

God said to father Abraham, "I am thy exceeding and great reward." So, God is our "exceeding and great reward." Therefore, those who sin will NOT have an inheritance in the kingdom, that is, they will NOT inherit God and Christ. The implication is CLEAR. They will NOT have salvation.

"Follow peace with all men and the holiness without which NO MAN SHALL SEE THE LORD."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is how Eph 5:5 says it: For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Notice it doesn't say will not enter the kingdom. It SAYS there will be NO inheritance IN the kingdom.

Why would Paul say "in the kingdom" if his point was not entering the kingdom? He'd have just said that straight out.

Not having any inheritance in the kingdom of God or Chrst is said in context to this,

6 "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not therefore partakers with them.
8 Walk as Children of Light"
(Ephesians 5:6-8).

Verse 6 says. these things (i.e. these sins) comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. This is why in verse 7 we as believers are cautioned by Paul not to be partakers with them and we are told (in verse 8) to walk as children of Light.


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