The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[ToBeLoved]

You believe there is no Law or Commands given to believers in the New Covenant?
Or are you saying there is no penalty to disobeying God's Commands in the New Testament?


....

Jesus left us with two commandments that fulfill all of the law when obeyed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've never, ever, ever said that I through out the moral law. I said that I am in a different relationship to it.

While you may say that you do not throw out the Moral Law, the end result is still the same when you say there is no consequences to your soul in the after-life if you do break God's Laws. By teaching such a thing, you are going to lead people into breaking God's Laws (Whether you want that to happen or not). It is a doctrine of immorality that gives people a license to sin.


...

 

[Steeno7]

While you may say that you do not throw out the Moral Law, the end result is still the same when you say there is no consequences to your soul in the after-life if you do break God's Laws. By teaching such a thing, you are going to lead people into breaking God's Laws (Whether you want that to happen or not). It is a doctrine of immorality that gives people a license to sin.

The power of sin IS the law. (1 Cor. 15:56)

It is you who are providing the license to sin and encouraging immorality.

 

[ToBeLoved]

While you may say that you do not throw out the Moral Law, the end result is still the same when you say there is no consequences to your soul in the after-life if you do break God's Laws. By teaching such a thing, you are going to lead people into breaking God's Laws (Whether you want that to happen or not). It is a doctrine of immorality that gives people a license to sin.


...

It would be nice if you stopped jumping to conclusions about what people believe and actually ask them and then follow through with a conversation.

You put people in a position where they need to defend their beliefs after wrongly accused. It does not make for a conversation or teaching anyone can or wants to follow.

More questions, less conclusions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus left us with two commandments that fulfill all of the law when obeyed.

And you need to keep reading the New Testament.

There are 1,050 + Commands given to us in the New Testament.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

The only commands that I did not see on their list is the following:

• Believe & confess that Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh (John 8:24 cf. John 8:57, 58, 59) (1 John 4:3).

• Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15)

• Visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction (James 1:27).

• Feed and clothe the poor, welcome the stranger, visit the sick, and those in prison (Matthew 25:35, 36).

• "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor" (Matthew 19:21)

• Thank God without ceasing. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

• Receive the word of God not as the words of men, but as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

• Give to the poor needy brother; Especially if you wish them well (James 2:15)

• Pray the Lord's prayer (As an outline) (Matthew 6:9-13)

• Pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17)

• Bear with them that preach another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4)

• Reprove the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11)

• Correct and train others in the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16).

• Walk in the Spirit: This will result in the 9 fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5)

• How to love according to 1 Corinthians 13.

• Keep the words of the prophecy of Revelation (Revelation 1:3).

• Live by speaking the Word of God (Which is our daily bread) (Matthew 4:4)

• Study to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15)

• Put on the whole armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-17)

• Be ye Holy as God is Holy (1 Peter 1:16)

• Do not add or take away from God's Word (Revelation 22:18, 19)

• If we as believers sin, we are to confess our sins (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9)

• Do all things thru Christ (Philippians 4:13)

I am sure there are more.

As for the Old Testament Law of Moses:

I believe Jesus Christ has nailed that to the Old Law to the cross and implemented the New Covenant Law of Christ or rules under the New Testament; For Jesus said sometime before cross that the Old was about to vanish away (Hebrews 8:13).

Oh, and just so that there is no confusion. We are not saved by any Law keeping, but we are saved by Jesus Christ when we repent of our sins and accept Him as our Savior. Keeping the New Testament Law of Christ is merely the proof that God lives within you. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. For salvation is not a super power but it is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). Holiness and fruitful works is just evidence that you have been saved.

Hope this helps.

And may God bless you.



...

 

[ToBeLoved]

The power of sin is the law. (1 Cor. 15:56)

It is you who are providing the license to sin and encouraging immorality.

That is a very interesting answer.

I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's true.

 

[ToBeLoved]

And you need to keep reading the New Testament.

There are 1,050 + Commands given to us in the New Testament.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

The only commands that I did not see on their list is the following:

• Believe & confess that Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh (John 8:24 cf. John 8:57, 58, 59) (1 John 4:3).

• Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15)

• Visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction (James 1:27).

• Feed and clothe the poor, welcome the stranger, visit the sick, and those in prison (Matthew 25:35, 36).

• "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor" (Matthew 19:21)

• Thank God without ceasing. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

• Receive the word of God not as the words of men, but as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

• Give to the poor needy brother; Especially if you wish them well (James 2:15)

• Pray the Lord's prayer (As an outline) (Matthew 6:9-13)

• Pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17)

• Bear with them that preach another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4)

• Reprove the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11)

• Correct and train others in the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16).

• Walk in the Spirit: This will result in the 9 fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5)

• How to love according to 1 Corinthians 13.

• Keep the words of the prophecy of Revelation (Revelation 1:3).

• Live by speaking the Word of God (Which is our daily bread) (Matthew 4:4)

• Study to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15)

• Put on the whole armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-17)

• Be ye Holy as God is Holy (1 Peter 1:16)

• Do not add or take away from God's Word (Revelation 22:18, 19)

• If we as believers sin, we are to confess our sins (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9)

• Do all things thru Christ (Philippians 4:13)

I am sure there are more.

As for the Old Testament Law of Moses:

I believe Jesus Christ has nailed that to the Old Law to the cross and implemented the New Covenant Law of Christ or rules under the New Testament; For Jesus said sometime before cross that the Old was about to vanish away (Hebrews 8:13).

Oh, and just so that there is no confusion. We are not saved by any Law keeping, but we are saved by Jesus Christ when we repent of our sins and accept Him as our Savior. Keeping the New Testament Law of Christ is merely the proof that God lives within you. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. For salvation is not a super power but it is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). Holiness and fruitful works is just evidence that you have been saved.

Hope this helps.

And may God bless you.



...

And you jumped right off the ledge with what I said. Not reading it and understanding it, because it is EXACTLY what Jesus said.

So if you do not like that response, if you pray, ask Jesus about it.

You should read Matthew 23 for insight in how Jesus handled the Pharisee's. It is not cute.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It would be nice if you stopped jumping to conclusions about what people believe and actually ask them and then follow through with a conversation.

You put people in a position where they need to defend their beliefs after wrongly accused. It does not make for a conversation or teaching anyone can or wants to follow.

More questions, less conclusions.

So you are saying he doesn't believe he is not under the penalty of God's Law?
I disagree.
He has given me no indication in our many conversations that this is so.
He believes in Eternal Security or a form of it - Which basically teaches that.


....

 

[ToBeLoved]

So you are saying he doesn't believe he is not under the penalty of God's Law?
I disagree.
He has given me no indication in our many conversations that this is so.
He believes in Eternal Security or a form of it - Which basically teaches that.


....

I don't know exactly what he believes and neither do you. Why not ask others what they believe instead of assigning labels to people. He is right here, ask him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And you jumped right off the ledge with what I said. Not reading it and understanding it, because it is EXACTLY what Jesus said.

So if you do not like that response, if you pray, ask Jesus about it.

You said, I quote:

"Jesus left us with two commandments that fulfill all of the law when obeyed." ~ said by: To Be Loved.​

However, this statement is not true. There are many other Commands or laws in the New Testament for us to obey that would be under the umbrella of Jesus's two commands. Please be a little more clear in the way you communicate so I do not misunderstand you. Thank you.


...

 

[Steeno7]

And you need to keep reading the New Testament.

There are 1,050 + Commands given to us in the New Testament.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

The only commands that I did not see on their list is the following:

• Believe & confess that Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh (John 8:24 cf. John 8:57, 58, 59) (1 John 4:3).

• Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15)

• Visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction (James 1:27).

• Feed and clothe the poor, welcome the stranger, visit the sick, and those in prison (Matthew 25:35, 36).

• "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor" (Matthew 19:21)

• Thank God without ceasing. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

• Receive the word of God not as the words of men, but as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

• Give to the poor needy brother; Especially if you wish them well (James 2:15)

• Pray the Lord's prayer (As an outline) (Matthew 6:9-13)

• Pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17)

• Bear with them that preach another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4)

• Reprove the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11)

• Correct and train others in the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16).

• Walk in the Spirit: This will result in the 9 fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5)

• How to love according to 1 Corinthians 13.

• Keep the words of the prophecy of Revelation (Revelation 1:3).

• Live by speaking the Word of God (Which is our daily bread) (Matthew 4:4)

• Study to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15)

• Put on the whole armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-17)

• Be ye Holy as God is Holy (1 Peter 1:16)

• Do not add or take away from God's Word (Revelation 22:18, 19)

• If we as believers sin, we are to confess our sins (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9)

• Do all things thru Christ (Philippians 4:13)

I am sure there are more.

As for the Old Testament Law of Moses:

I believe Jesus Christ has nailed that to the Old Law to the cross and implemented the New Covenant Law of Christ or rules under the New Testament; For Jesus said sometime before cross that the Old was about to vanish away (Hebrews 8:13).

Oh, and just so that there is no confusion. We are not saved by any Law keeping, but we are saved by Jesus Christ when we repent of our sins and accept Him as our Savior. Keeping the New Testament Law of Christ is merely the proof that God lives within you. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. For salvation is not a super power but it is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). Holiness and fruitful works is just evidence that you have been saved.

Hope this helps.

And may God bless you.



...

Dang, I had a better deal before I came to Christ........

 

[ToBeLoved]

You said that we fulfill all law by obeying just the two commands of Jesus. That is not true. There are many other Commands or laws in the New Testament for us to obey that would be under the umbrella of Jesus's two commands. Please be a little more clear in the way you communicate so I do not misunderstand you. Thank you.


...

I said EXACTLY what Jesus said.

Go find out what Jesus said in the Bible and come back

 

[ToBeLoved]

Dang, I had a better deal before I came to Christ........

Jason, is a special, self taught believer who has many 'interesting' theologies. Very like Saul, before he became Paul.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't know exactly what he believes and neither do you. Why not ask others what they believe instead of assigning labels to people. He is right here, ask him.

You don't know what he believes. But I do. I know he believes in a form of Eternal Security (like you) which is a denial that there are no dire consequences to one's soul if one disobeys God's Laws. For you both believe Jesus paid the price for all your sins: Past, present, and future. This gives you both a license to sin (if you so choose to do so). Even more of a problem is that it leads others into sin by such a teaching (Even children). And what does Jesus say will happen to a person if they lead a child into sin?


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I said EXACTLY what Jesus said.

Go find out what Jesus said in the Bible and come back

I know what Jesus said. You did not quote Him exactly. You were adding your own words to what you think He said. There is a difference.


...

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"What is news to you? That the "us" in Eph 1:4 is the same "us" as found in Eph 1:19?"

No, that is patently obvious. This is what is news to me:

"The reformed don't like that much."

Many, if not most, reformed use Eph 1:4 as a proof text that God chooses who will believe. The verse does not say that. It says He chooses believers.

I will give you one more chance to answer my question, and one chance to substantiate your assertion that:

"The point is this: Eph 1:4 isn't about God choosing or electing anyone to salvation.

I don't have the patience for such confusion mixed with casual disregard.

I don't see any question here. At least, provide the post # where you asked a question that you'd like me to answer.

My assertion is based on the clear wording of Eph 1:4. Believers, the "us" in v.4, have been chosen "that we would be holy and blameless". This isn't a description of being chosen for salvation. It's an election to service; to be holy and blameless.

In other verses, believers are expected to be holy and blameless.

Eph 5:27 - that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
Phil 1:10 - so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ
Phil 2:15 - so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,
Col 1:10 - so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God
Col 1:22,23a - yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 IF indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast
2 Pet 4:14 - Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless

From these verses, it should be obvious that Eph 1:4 isn't about one's status, but rather one's service to God. By being holy and blameless.

iow, believers are chosen for service, not for salvation.

Or, it's stated this way:
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God,which is your spiritual service of worship. Rom 12:1

 

[ToBeLoved]

You said, I quote:

"Jesus left us with two commandments that fulfill all of the law when obeyed." ~ said by: To Be Loved.​

However, this statement is not true. There are many other Commands or laws in the New Testament for us to obey that would be under the umbrella of Jesus's two commands. Please be a little more clear in the way you communicate so I do not misunderstand you. Thank you.


...

Think about it Jason. Why do you not go get Jesus exact words and refute it.

If commandments are so encompassing they include the others, than it is not refuting the others. Think about it deeply. It makes perfect sense.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The power of sin IS the law. (1 Cor. 15:56)

It is you who are providing the license to sin and encouraging immorality.

The verse you quote is totally taken out of context of the rest of Scripture.

Paul says the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously in this present world.

11 "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live sensibly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"
(Titus 2:11-12).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Think about it Jason. Why do you not go get Jesus exact words and refute it.

If commandments are so encompassing they include the others, than it is not refuting the others. Think about it deeply. It makes perfect sense.

Why did you not quote Jesus exactly and provide a verse number reference instead of using your own words or spin on what he said?


...

 

[Steeno7]

The verse you quote is totally taken out of context of the rest of Scripture.

Paul says the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously in this present world.

11 "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live sensibly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"
(Titus 2:11-12).


...

The verse you quoted was taken out of context. And that you who preach nothing but law would try to now appeal to Grace reveals the very depth of your ignorance.