"The least of these..."

[visionary]

Oh, ok! When is Trumpets, and what is its significance to me?

The Feast of Trumpets start with two witnesses sighting the new moon at the start of the seventh month. Youtube has a lot of people hearing trumpet sounds from around the world. Weird because of the volume, strangeness and no good explanations available. Revelation has seven significant trumpets.

The role of the two witnesses is to announce that the fall feasts are about to start with the Feast of Trumpets. Now the two trumpets of silver can be paralleled to the two witnesses who are calling people to the last call of redemption. The two witnesses will call for the ingathering of the believers and for the journeying that will need to be done spiritually to be in the place in the wilderness, where God can again speak to you just like it was at Mount Sinai and the Mount of Olives where Yeshua was transfigured. God wants to have your head glow like you just came down from Mount Sinai, and be transfigured like you have just come back from being in His Presence.

Now there will be the time when the book in Revelation 10 is opened and it tastes sweet, but when the full impact of what this means, to the wicked and those in rebellion to the Word of God will cause the stomach to churn.

When the two witnesses come, they will come in the power from on High. Please note that once the book of Revelation 10 is opened read, digested, there is the command to prophesy again. The two witnesses then appear in Revelation 11 to deal with the increased pressure of the beast upon the people. They will be able to command plagues like Moses and conviction will be with their words, for Yeshua will be with them like a voice out of the cloud.

The clouded mind that each and every one of us has is confusion on one point or another, lost and not knowing where to turn will be cleared by the messages of the two witnesses of Revelation. It will ring true and will be like the voice of God to your heart and mind. It will bring you convictions, repentance, and salvation in the mysteries of God that have for so long been covered by traditions and our own sinful lives.

They will cause the mystery of God to be finished. The hidden things of God will no longer be hidden; the truth will shine in all its glory. The two witnesses’ message and the son of perdition that appears to confuse the masses bring about tribulation such as never before witnessed upon the earth. Tribulation and turmoil in the mind over conflicts of information means that there are still controversies over truth battling for your soul. As tribulation is in everyone’s mind, so also will the outwards signs of turmoil be among the people, as the rulers look to control the masses, and leaders look to lead the crowd.

Everyone will be taking a position, everyone holding and protesting even if it takes forcing their beliefs or position upon others until there is nothing left to be said because everyone is willing to die for the position they will then hold. The entire world will then be judged accordingly, and the plaques will fall afflicting each and everyone justly in righteous judgment.

In that three and one half time period, during this turmoil, those who are witnessing for Messiah will find it getting extremely difficult to the point that they will wear out. They will be exhausted from warning and wooing on the hardness of the hearts of men to change while there is still an opportunity.

During the Feast of Trumpets, you will have watchmen who will give out the trumpet warning, the heralding of the news, and the announcements of what is soon to come to pass. These watchmen on the wall of Zion are the two witnesses of Revelation.
So it will be when the two witnesses, in Revelation, prophesy to the world, they will open the eyes of the world as to what is going on in God’s world. They will also show what is going on and going to happen in our world as you near the end of earth’s history.

The mystery of God as declared by the Prophets will be finished at the seventh trumpet. “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that lives for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets.”

The Feast of Trumpets is a remembrance of things yet to come. Revelation trumpets are a foretaste of the things to come in full blast when there is no more repentance. It is a memorial of things that have not happened yet. Only with God can something be remembered before it has occurred! The Feast of Trumpets remembers the future work of Yeshua. Perhaps it is the obscurity of the future which accounts for the Bible's silence regarding the festival's meaning. The Feast of Trumpets’ final fulfillment is still shrouded in the future. If so, then the sound of the trumpet on Feast of Trumpets reminds us to listen for the sound of the trumpet in Revelation.
Study the trumpets because
1. It is a new year, a new event, a new understanding, a new message, and a new beginning.
2. Revelation talks about the seven trumpets as events that are to shake people of this world up and try getting them to see differently enough to understand the need to repent.
3. The Feast of Trumpets is designed for a purpose...preparing the people for the Day of Atonement.

Trumpets Used to Notify, Warn or Assemble Israel for War
Trumpets Used as a Sound of Peace, End of Strife
Trumpets Signified Crowning a King, or Revolt
Trumpet Used in Temple Worship
God's Voice is Full of Awesome Power, like a Trumpet
God's Trumpet-Like Voice at Mt. Sinai
Trumpets and LORD's Judgment Day
Message of Day of Trumpets - Repent
The Messiah Comes on the Last Trumpet
Trumpets, Yom Kippur - Atonement

 

[Gregory Wilson]

Youtube has a lot of people hearing trumpet sounds from around the world. Weird because of the volume, strangeness and no good explanations available.

Thank you for the thorough response! Concerning the above, you mean like supernaturally just hearing trumpets during the feast of trumpets, when there is no trumpet around?

What's the verse reference about the 2 witnesses observing the moon?

Thank you, again. Lot of alarming things concerning end times stuff. God, have mercy, keep me, and guide me.

 

[Lulav]

Hello Lulav! This is the same Greg, but I had to make a new account because my previous one was through Facebook and it won't let me log in that way for some reason. Cool cool. So.. to summarize, we are waiting for the temple to be restored in Jerusalem and Jesus to judge before stoning could happen again, and before sacrifices would occur again?

Also, it seems Jesus modified some of the Law in His sermon on the mount, although He says that whoever keeps and teaches the least of the commandments of the law will be called greatest. How do you see the Law, and what are we to keep from it today, and what does not really apply? Thank you,

Greg

Sorry to hear of your troubles, we have a brand new forum platform and others have had trouble as well. Glad you are back, and thanks for your honesty!
To answer your questions.

Yes, for sacrifices to be reinstated there must be a temple, in Jerusalem.
The Beit din would judge if allowed by state law (Israel) but that would only be for that country.

What modifications do you see? please explain in detail.
What I believe Yeshua/Jesus was saying is that all of G-ds laws are important, even the least of them, which he doesn't define, (but in another place he does define the greatest, Loving G-d and Loving neighbor. ) and so they are important to teach to others. Now there are certain laws that are 'judiciary' and from what I understand, very few were ever given the death sentence of stoning. You needed to have two reliable witnesses, a trial needed to be had etc.

During the time of Jesus there were some who were way to strict, that is why you see Jesus preaching mercy and to forgive other, and that your forgiveness from G-d was based on the same mercy you showed others who had sinned against you.

What we can keep today is what can only be kept in a Jewish community and outside that remembrances. Moral and dietary, family purity, Sabbath these all can be individually kept as well as charity, helping others either individually or with organizations to do so.

 

[Lulav]

"Lulav said: ↑


go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

If you practice mercy (loving others) then this is pleasing to G-d more than animals or produce."


That is a call for doing things correctly, not halfheartedly. It does not give an excuse not to sacrifice.

Yeshua dealt with the same type of hypocrisy by the Pharisees in Luke 11:42

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.​

Pat, you aren't accusing me of hypocrisy are you? How is what I put, 'half-hearted'???

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

From Hosea, it means to show loving kindness to other (loving your neighbor as yourself) - Chesed, and to have intimate knowledge (drawing close) of G-d over burnt offering.

This is another sum up of what Yeshua said were the two greatest commandments.

Is it not better to keep the commandments that require to Love G-d and your neighbor than to have to offer sacrifice for sinning against either?

 

[Lulav]

Hmmm, it says 70 OF the elders of Israel, as if there were more?

The word here for elders means the old men, there of course were more, but I would guess these were the eldest of the old, seventy to represent the nations.

 

[visionary]

Thank you for the thorough response! Concerning the above, you mean like supernaturally just hearing trumpets during the feast of trumpets, when there is no trumpet around?

What's the verse reference about the 2 witnesses observing the moon?

Thank you, again. Lot of alarming things concerning end times stuff. God, have mercy, keep me, and guide me.

Rosh Chodesh was declared only after two witnesses came to the Sanhedrin and testified that they had seen the new moon.
http://www.beingjewish.com/yomtov/chodesh/newmoon.html

To the Jewish mind like John when he penned those words "two witnesses" his mind would immediately think of Rosh Chodesh. It is the only festival to start a new year, start the feast of trumpets, start the fall feasts, and start when two witnesses see it. If it were a cloudy day and no one witnesses the new moon then it would be declared the next day. That is why you will not know the day or hour. This year is also especially significant because it is the start of the Jubilee year. Not just any Jubilee year but the 120th. It takes 120 Jubilees to make 6000 years completed. So this Jubilee will be starting the Sabbathical Millennium rest. Sept. 23, 2015 Day of Atonement ushers in the Year of Jubilee.

From the infant start during the time of Moses, developed the elders later known as Sanhedrin and then the two witnesses needed by Yeshua's time. Here is a little history. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Rosh_Chodesh/rosh_chodesh.html

 

[pat34lee]

Pat, you aren't accusing me of hypocrisy are you? How is what I put, 'half-hearted'???

Is it not better to keep the commandments that require to Love G-d and your neighbor than to have to offer sacrifice for sinning against either?

This was about the verses, not you.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

That is not giving permission to stop sacrificing, but telling them to get themselves right first. To learn mercy, and the knowledge of Yahweh, and then do what he says from the heart, not grudgingly or half-heartedly.

Not all sacrifices involved sin. Many were either memorial, giving thanks, or were for ceremonial uncleanness. Also, this is where the Levites working at the temple got their food.

 

[Lulav]

This was about the verses, not you.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

That is not giving permission to stop sacrificing, but telling them to get themselves right first. To learn mercy, and the knowledge of Yahweh, and then do what he says from the heart, not grudgingly or half-heartedly.

Not all sacrifices involved sin. Many were either memorial, giving thanks, or were for ceremonial uncleanness. Also, this is where the Levites working at the temple got their food.

OK,

Yes I know there are many different sacrifices but since Yeshua was speaking of specific things we have to realize what sacrifices he was referring to. They were speaking of killing his disciples for harvesting grain on the Sabbath because they were hungry. They weren't doing it because they didn't prepare first , they were doing it because they were following their shepherd, I'm sure he gave them permission. It was life over death which many laws can be violated in order to preserve life, that is what he was teaching and that in Judaism is still followed today.

The Pharisees wanted them stoned for eating, that shows no mercy whatsoever. That is what some call the letter of the law. It involves no mercy, no room for circumstances to be taken into accounting.

He used that in Matthew 12 but also here in Matt 9

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

They thought it was holy and righteous to not eat with the 'sinners and tax collectors for Rome, but Yeshua came to bring them back to rightness with G-d so he showed mercy on them and came to their houses.

 

[pat34lee]

They thought it was holy and righteous to not eat with the 'sinners and tax collectors for Rome, but Yeshua came to bring them back to rightness with G-d so he showed mercy on them and came to their houses.

One problem is those who use that verse to justify acting like or looking like the sinners they go after. Yeshua did not go there to hang out and do whatever they did. He went to teach them about Yahweh because he loves us all and wants us made whole and returned to him.

 

[visionary]

The English word “jubilee” comes from the Hebrew word “yovel” meaning a “trumpet or ram’s horn.”These rams’ horns were blown on the Day of Atonement to announce the start of the year of jubilee. 49 prophetic years x 360 days = 17,640 days. From June 7 th 1967 forward 17,640 days puts you on September 23 th 2015 which is YOM KIPPUR!

 

[Norbert L]

Rosh Chodesh was declared only after two witnesses came to the Sanhedrin and testified that they had seen the new moon.
http://www.beingjewish.com/yomtov/chodesh/newmoon.html

Here's a legit question about declaring a feast of the Lord.

MISHNAH TRACTATE ROŠ HAŠŠANAH 2:8-9

2.9C. He said to him, "I can provide grounds for showing that everything that Rabban Gamaliel has done is validly done, since it says, 'These are the set feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which you shall proclaim' (Lev. 23:4). Whether they are in their proper time or not in their proper time, I have no set feasts but these [which you shall proclaim] [vs. m. 2:7D].

When you get two witnesses testifying before the Sanhedrin about one single new moon. How on one hand can the date be in their proper time and on the other hand be not be in their proper time?

 

[visionary]

Here's a legit question about declaring a feast of the Lord.

MISHNAH TRACTATE ROŠ HAŠŠANAH 2:8-9

2.9C. He said to him, "I can provide grounds for showing that everything that Rabban Gamaliel has done is validly done, since it says, 'These are the set feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which you shall proclaim' (Lev. 23:4). Whether they are in their proper time or not in their proper time, I have no set feasts but these [which you shall proclaim] [vs. m. 2:7D].

When you get two witnesses testifying before the Sanhedrin about one single new moon. How on one hand can the date be in their proper time and on the other hand be not be in their proper time?

Yeshua also declared that the feasts were the appointed time, one for his first coming and the other not. Maybe it has to do with the "proper" timing to declare its prophetic "proper" time?

 

[Norbert L]

Yeshua also declared that the feasts were the appointed time, one for his first coming and the other not. Maybe it has to do with the "proper" timing to declare its prophetic "proper" time?

I think it has a whole lot less to do with timing. Be it calculation or observation and more to do about how a person follows Yeshua. 2 Peter 1:16

People can know exact prophetic timings and it still won't help them. Here's an abridged version of Mathew 7:22-23, Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name ... Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[visionary]

I think it has a whole lot less to do with timing. Be it calculation or observation and more to do about how a person follows Yeshua. 2 Peter 1:16

People can know exact prophetic timings and it still won't help them. Here's an abridged version of Mathew 7:22-23, Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name ... Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Prophesying and being like Daniel desiring to know the fulfillment of prophecies are two different things. True, we do often check out those who are prophesying to see if it meets the biblical standard process. On a forum like this, it is good to bounce various understanding to see what sticks and what needs more work.

 

[ContraMundum]

Hello,

My name is Greg Wilson, and I am a tentative sabbath-keeper, seeking to follow God wholly in everything, and there is a passage of scripture that I am concerned about, which is:

--
Matthew 5:17-20, NASB :

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."
--

So, in reference to the Law, Jesus says whoever keeps and teaches the least of the commandments shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. I want to be called great, not just to be called great, but to follow God in the whollest way possible.

But, if we were to follow the least of the commandments, (aka all of them!), that would include things like animal sacrifice, and stoning people for certain things. I would need to study the law better to understand these things.

In Hebrews, I know that it says "Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin." (Now that we're forgiven, we don't need a sacrifice for sin). So that seems to go against Jesus telling us to keep and teach the commandment to do sacrifice.

How does this apparent contradiction get worked out, my fellow believers?

Also, would Jesus ever want a Messianic community to be started where discipline followed the laws about stoning, etc?

Thank you.

Greg, just make sure you don't play that violin on the Sabbath. God hates that....apparently.

 

[visionary]

Greg, just make sure you don't play that violin on the Sabbath. God hates that....apparently.

?? Have you not see "Fiddler on the roof".

 

[Gregory Wilson]

Yes, for sacrifices to be reinstated there must be a temple, in Jerusalem.
The Beit din would judge if allowed by state law (Israel) but that would only be for that country.

What modifications do you see? please explain in detail.
What I believe Yeshua/Jesus was saying is that all of G-ds laws are important, even the least of them, which he doesn't define, (but in another place he does define the greatest, Loving G-d and Loving neighbor. ) and so they are important to teach to others. Now there are certain laws that are 'judiciary' and from what I understand, very few were ever given the death sentence of stoning. You needed to have two reliable witnesses, a trial needed to be had etc.

During the time of Jesus there were some who were way to strict, that is why you see Jesus preaching mercy and to forgive other, and that your forgiveness from G-d was based on the same mercy you showed others who had sinned against you.

What we can keep today is what can only be kept in a Jewish community and outside that remembrances. Moral and dietary, family purity, Sabbath these all can be individually kept as well as charity, helping others either individually or with organizations to do so.

Thank you, Lulav! This post was especially helpful to me. I'm seeing how the law and mercy fit together.
As for modifications I see, see the following:

After Jesus makes His statement about the Law, and keeping and teaching the least of the commandments, he then goes into a section where he says what people have heard, contrasted to what He says. The first is "you shall not commit murder" (Matthew 5:21). He modifies it by going to the heart - everyone who is angry with his brother.
That does not contradict the command to not murder, so we are good.

But, later He, our awesome Lord, : ) says, (Matthew 5:33-39)


"Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.' But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the erth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil.

You have heard that is was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also..."


So, in the above 2 instances, Jesus is really quoting Old Testament scriptures, because in my bible the text quoted is in all caps, which means its a direct quote. And so it looks likes He's modifying the law by saying just let your statement be 'Yes, yes' instead of making vows to the Lord, as the law says. Why is this, when He's just said whoever keeps and teaches the least of the commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)?
And then in the next instance, He quotes another scripture - "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." And He says to not seek this kind of justice, but to turn the other cheek. Seems like Jesus is changing what the Law taught again.

Thank you, and God bless.

-Greg

 

[Gregory Wilson]

He went to teach them about Yahweh because he loves us all and wants us made whole and returned to him.

Good word, Pat.

 

[pinacled]

Thank you, Lulav! This post was especially helpful to me. I'm seeing how the law and mercy fit together.
As for modifications I see, see the following:

After Jesus makes His statement about the Law, and keeping and teaching the least of the commandments, he then goes into a section where he says what people have heard, contrasted to what He says. The first is "you shall not commit murder" (Matthew 5:21). He modifies it by going to the heart - everyone who is angry with his brother.
That does not contradict the command to not murder, so we are good.

But, later He, our awesome Lord, : ) says, (Matthew 5:33-39)


"Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.' But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the erth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil.

You have heard that is was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also..."


So, in the above 2 instances, Jesus is really quoting Old Testament scriptures, because in my bible the text quoted is in all caps, which means its a direct quote. And so it looks likes He's modifying the law by saying just let your statement be 'Yes, yes' instead of making vows to the Lord, as the law says. Why is this, when He's just said whoever keeps and teaches the least of the commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)?
And then in the next instance, He quotes another scripture - "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." And He says to not seek this kind of justice, but to turn the other cheek. Seems like Jesus is changing what the Law taught again.

Thank you, and God bless.

-Greg

Yeshua/Jesus is the School Master
Giving the Ear for the Awl.
Turning the other cheek?


Deuteronomy 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.

2 And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the Lord's release.

3 Of a foreigner thou mayest exact it again: but that which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release;

4 Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the Lord shall greatly bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it:

5 Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day.

6 For the Lord thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.

7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:

8 But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.

9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the Lord against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

10 Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto.

11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.

13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty:

14 Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.

 

[ContraMundum]

?? Have you not see "Fiddler on the roof".

In most communities within Orthodox Judaism, you cannot play an instrument on the Sabbath. That was what I was referring to.