The Law

[JohnRabbit]

That is not how it worked,the law was one,it was a system.

gal 5;3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law

mwood30 and Shera, i think are spot on. how is it, that you don't see what they are saying?

 

[Lulav]

The old cov was abolished.The cov contained the laws.


Hebrews 10:
then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.

More on the 10.WRITTEN IN STONE.


7 Now if the ministry of death, chiselled in letters on stone tablets, came in glory so that the people of Israel could not gaze at Moses’ face because of the glory of his face, a glory now set aside,


11for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!

The covenant was not just about that, the covenant was actually a marriage contract, between G-d and the people he choose. So according to your understanding are the Jews no longer his chosen people? The prophets tell us he divorced Israel (the kingdom of, the ones that were scattered among the gentiles) but he did not divorce her sister, Judah. So does that mean when Jesus died he divorced Judah? Some think so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus said, "Treat others the same way you want to be treated, for this is the Law." That sounds like an entirely different covenant to me; not the reinstitution of the same old one.

From what I understand, a lot of non-Christian religions have a form of the "golden rule"

Versions of the Golden Rule in 21 world religions
Overview:

The Ethic of Reciprocity -- often called the Golden Rule in Christianity -- simply states that we are to treat other people as we would wish to be treated ourselves.
Almost all organized religions have such an ethic. It is normally intended to apply to the entire human race. Unfortunately, it is too often applied by some people only to fellow believers.

 

[Lulav]

How can we keep sopmething,that was put in place to increase the trespass,as we see it did in Rom 7?

Paul was talking about the 10 commandment.

Can you make any legitimate arguments without using Paul?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

mwood30 and Shera, i think are spot on. how is it, that you don't see what they are saying?

I would agree

 

[mwood30]

So since it was given to the Jews, called the Oracles of G-d, then only they were lawless? The heathens/gentiles worshipping every demonic manifestation of false deities were lawful??? Doesn't make sense does it?

About about this, Adam was made without sin. G-d gave him one commandment. Did he give this commandment because Adam was lawless? Or did he give it because he is G-d and has the right to require certain behavior from his creation?

The post you are responding to was just referencing 1 Timothy 1:9 NASB: "law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless"

That's all. And I don't think 1 Timothy 1:9 is non-sensical.

 

[Yarddog]

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word" is used interchangeably with, "law," "commandments," "judgments," "statutes," "precepts," "statutes," "testimonies." (Courtesy of Dr.R.C. Sproul)

Which Hebrew word for "word" do you refer to? Dabar or imrah. Whichever, neither word is used interchangeably with "law". Dabar is the word most often used when scripture says "the word of the Lord".

As an example:
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Gen. 15:1
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great." [/FONT]

Dabar is used by the KJV 807 times to mean "word" and only 20 times to mean "commandments". Mitzvah is the word for commandment, while Torah is the law.
[/FONT]

GOD'S WORD IS HIS LAW.

God's Word is many things, including Jesus. His word put forth the Mosaic Law for the Jews but not for the Gentiles. There would be a law at work for the Gentiles but not the Mosaic Law.

When Jesus gave us The Two Greatest Commandments, He was quoting the law:

"Then on of them which was a lawyer, asked Him a question, tempting Him, and saying, Master which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first and great commandment. (Deut 6:5) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:35-40.

Yes and he was talking to the Jews.
Matt. 22: 34 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, 35 and one of them [a scholar of the law] tested him by asking,

The Apostle Paul wrote, "For as many as have sinned without law, shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Rom 2:12,13.

Romans is addressed first to the Jew and then later to the Gentiles. Those outside the Law are the Gentiles who were not given the Law.

14 For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.
Paul is not talking about observing all the Mosaic Laws but doing what is right, as he says in verse 7: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just and good...For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal sold under sin...If then I do that which I would not, I consent that the law is good...For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity which is in my members...I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Rom 7:12-27.

The Law is holy but is that what we want as our justification? The Mosaic Law or the law of the Spirit in Jesus Christ?

Romans 8:
1 Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law and offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." Ja 2:10,11.

That is correct. Do you want to be judged by the Mosaic Law or do you rather want to be judged by the law of freedom?

James 2:
12 So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom. 13 For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

"Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of good conscience, and of faith unfeigned. Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk, Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." 1 Tim 1:5-7.

Not sure why you left out verse 6, which I inserted in the verses that you gave, above.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

Amen, we keep the commandments which he gave to those who live by faith, which are not the Mosaic Law.

Jesus said: Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law.


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]18.[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. [/FONT][/FONT]
Until all is accomplished. All of what? All that Jesus came to do.


John 19:
30 When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, "It is finished." And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit.
When Jesus died on the cross, his works were accomplished and "it was finished".

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets lasted until John; but from then on the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone who enters does so with violence.
We, who are children of God, are not under the Mosaic Law but under grace received through faith. We obey the commands that God gives us and that is to love.

John 15:12 This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.

 

[Lulav]

On another thread,I asked for a list of the commandments some people dont keep..

I got no reply,which leads me to think they are keeping the entire Mosaic law?

Now if people want to walk in the law of Christ,which is Love God and neighbor..that is great.

Paul differentiated between the Mosaic,and that of Christ in Gal 6,and 1 cor 9.

Unless of course I get a list some time today.

Soooo..who is keeping all the commands?

Where is this thread and question? Leave a link.

You still don't understand what he was saying, do you? You live in a town or city, don't you? And your town or city has laws, right? ( I haven't been made aware of a Lawless USA yet, if there is, someone enlighten me).

So, are all the laws of your city pertinent to you alone? Are they separated in the same way, by saying

These are 'the laws of this town USA'. Within that law book you will find sections of the law. Most of course don't have as many as the Torah for that was for a whole nation and how to interact between themselves and other nations and how to interact with G-d, a lot more complicated, but lets just use a man made law for a group of people.

Here. maybe if you look at this you will see what I mean. This is just any old town usa that I found on the internet. This is what they say:

Laws of the Town of Riverdale Park


There are three documents making up the laws of the Town of Riverdale Park.

And the three are

Town Charter-This document establishes the town and establishes the structure of government. The Charter is for the town as the Constitution is to the country.

Town Code - you can also see an older version in html format Town Code; it is enormous, though). These are laws enacted by the council and mayor and specify what is legal and not legal for town residents. It is the equivalent of the laws passed by the US Congress and signed by the President.

Election Manual - This document details how elections are run and is mainly used by the election judges.

Now as you can plainly see not all of these laws just looking at their subheading are for all the people. Now under each of there lie many laws, but they are summed up by their headings, or sub headings of the Laws for the Town of Riverdale Park.

For instance the Town Code (which as a link in its heading above should you choose to look at it, is very long): Is further broken down like this

1-1 -- section
1-1(a) -- subsection
1-1(a)(1) -- paragraph
1-1(a)(1)(A) -- subparagraph
1-1(a)(1)(A)(I) -- clause.

There are so many different things listed under these that I can't list them all here, but if you look at that document you will wonder, how do those people live there? The laws are for the safety and care of the people, just as G-ds laws are.

If G-ds laws were indeed to pass away then all would be chaos and the universe would implode.

 

[Hentenza]

Just go back and read the whole thing, that is all I ask before anybody starts telling me how wrong I am.

There is nearly three years worth of pure research in this article I wrote.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I read it the last time you posted it. Very well done. I do wonder if anyone of the legalists will actually read it and comment objectively.

 

[Fireinfolding]

So since it was given to the Jews, called the Oracles of G-d, then only they were lawless? The heathens/gentiles worshipping every demonic manifestation of false deities were lawful??? Doesn't make sense does it?

I'm only saying what Paul said, "the law is made for the lawless" I dont question the scripture but go with it and add to my learning through other scripture but I try not to wrestle with it, I accept it.

About about this, Adam was made without sin. G-d gave him one commandment. Did he give this commandment because Adam was lawless? Or did he give it because he is G-d and has the right to require certain behavior from his creation?

What was the commandment? But dont eat from that tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... wheres the knowledge of sin come from?

I dont see God telling Adam he needed to know what good or evil was. Wasnt what they had good before that tree?

Besides they were naked before they even ate from that tree (just not aware of it or ashamed of it) that tree exposed what they already were (naked). What do you think that tree signifies?

 

[Sherha]

If you do not keep The Ten Commandment Covenant, you will perish in the lake of fire:

"And I heard another VOICE from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (LAWLESSNESS)

The Church system has replaced much of the Word of God, for her traditions.

How do we "Come out?" By imitating the Bereans: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.

"But be ye doers of the Word, and not hearers, only, deceiving yourselves." Ja 1:22.

How do we Come out? By being born again, and having His Spirit within us.

 

[Fireinfolding]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[Lulav]

I'm only saying what Paul said, "the law is made for the lawless" I dont question the scripture but go with it and add to my learning through other scripture but I try not to wrestle with it, I accept it.



What was the commandment? But dont eat from that tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... wheres the knowledge of sin come from?

I dont see God telling Adam he needed to know what good or evil was. Wasnt what they had good before that tree?

Besides they were naked before they even ate from that tree (just not aware of it or ashamed of it) that tree exposed what they already were (naked). What do you think that tree signifies?

I know you are only repeating what Paul says, but does that jive with what I posted? What is in Genesis. Let's not get off track with what happened afterwards. You are repeating that paul said the law was made for the lawless.

I believe that every perfect and good thing comes from G-d, not Paul or any other human being. So if something someone says does not jive with the Words given directly from G-d then see if that jives with what G-d said and if not I need to question it.

It's not important what G-d told Adam about that tree or didn't tell him, he told him to not eat from it. He could eat from every other tree, except that one. He did not listen, he disobeyed. But the point I was trying to make is that he was not lawless, he was not given a law because he was lawless , yet still a law was given to him. G-d didn't have to explain why, just like he doesn't have to explain why he gives us any other laws. He is G-d that is 'why'.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I know you are only repeating what Paul says, but does that jive with what I posted? What is in Genesis. Let's not get off track with what happened afterwards. You are repeating that paul said the law was made for the lawless.

I believe that every perfect and good thing comes from G-d, not Paul or any other human being. So if something someone says does not jive with the Words given directly from G-d then see if that jives with what G-d said and if not I need to question it.

It's not important what G-d told Adam about that tree or didn't tell him, he told him to not eat from it. He could eat from every other tree, except that one. He did not listen, he disobeyed. But the point I was trying to make is that he was not lawless, he was not given a law because he was lawless , yet still a law was given to him. G-d didn't have to explain why, just like he doesn't have to explain why he gives us any other laws. He is G-d that is 'why'.

So theres a tree called the knowledge of good and evil, and God says dont eat of that (for you will die) and that tree doesnt remind you of something similiarly that teaches man what good and evil (in ones desire to be wise) but has no power to impart life (only death)... That dont remind you of "something"?

Why are Adam (First man, now old man) and Moses (First covenant, now old covenant) wrapped under that which is called the ministration of death?

 

[Hentenza]

If you do not keep The Ten Commandment Covenant, you will perish in the lake of fire:

2 Cor. 3:
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We as believers in the redeeming blood of Christ are under a much glorious covenant. The tablets of stone (the 10 Commandments given to Israel) have passed away. The good news is that we are under the ministry of the Spirit.

 

[Lulav]

The post you are responding to was just referencing 1 Timothy 1:9 NASB: "law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless"

That's all. And I don't think 1 Timothy 1:9 is non-sensical.

And how would you reconcile that verse with this one?

10 As it is written * , There is none righteous, no, not one:

The same one that wrote that also wrote the one you quoted.

But Isaiah said:

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away .

 

[Frogster]

The First Covenant was cut with animals blood, it was administered by the Levitical Priesthood. The same covenant called 'New' was instituted with the blood of a sinless man, Jesus. It is administered through the Spirit by a Righteous, clean and Holy sinless Priest, Jesus.

It was the will of God,that the first was abolished.

7Then I said, “See, God, I have come to do your will, O God”
(in the scroll of the book* it is written of me).’
8When he said above, ‘You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sin-offerings’ (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second

 

[Frogster]

The covenant was not just about that, the covenant was actually a marriage contract, between G-d and the people he choose. So according to your understanding are the Jews no longer his chosen people? The prophets tell us he divorced Israel (the kingdom of, the ones that were scattered among the gentiles) but he did not divorce her sister, Judah. So does that mean when Jesus died he divorced Judah? Some think so.

Oh no..they just did not realize it was about Abraham..Paul knew..he said it in gal 4.

They stumbled over the stone,that the builders rejected.

Your proving my point.If we uphold the old cov,then there is enmity,from the law..

behold..

If you want unity,it is in the Spirit,not the flesh..see rom 9:6-8.

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

 

[Yarddog]

It's not important what G-d told Adam about that tree or didn't tell him, he told him to not eat from it.

The Tree of Life represents Jesus and the Tree of Knowledge represents the Law. One can eat of the Tree of life(Jesus) and live forever while the Tree of Knowledge(Law) brings death.

The Garden of Eden represents righteousness, where man lives in faith of God.
Adam and Eve chose to forsake righteousness and faith by embracing the Law and judgment for ones works.

Jesus fulfilled the demands of the Law so that all who have faith can live in righteousness. His works apply to all who live in faith, from the foundation of the world.

Those who embrace the Law, forsake grace.

 

[Fireinfolding]

2 Cor. 3:
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We as believers in the redeeming blood of Christ are under a much glorious covenant. The tablets of stone (the 10 Commandments given to Israel) have passed away. The good news is that we are under the ministry of the Spirit.

The Spirit Amen Hencritter


2Cr 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.