The Law of God vs the Law of Moses

[guevaraj]

Why would you want to be part of a church you claim does not understand scripture?

Sister, the church will understand in due time according to the prophecy of the Angel below. Patience! Not everyone is as far removed from overwhelming evidence as you are. Have you read Amanda's paper? I know God helped our church understand the longest time to make this correction by holding an incorrect hour for more than 8 years before doing the Bible study to learn more. God prepared our church to understand His Sabbath, it is simply taking others longer to realize what I have understood. Note that the angel speaks positively that we will "understand, but not yet, not yet". I don't know how long it will take others to see it like me. It is difficult to correct a tradition, especially one that has been around for so long!

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sister, the church will understand in due time according to the prophecy of the Angel below. Patience! Not everyone is as far removed from overwhelming evidence as you are. Have you read Amanda's paper? I know God helped our church understand the longest time to make this correction by holding an incorrect hour for more than 8 years before doing the Bible study to learn more. God prepared our church to understand His Sabbath, it is simply taking others longer to realize what I have understood. Note that the angel speaks positively that we will "understand, but not yet, not yet". I don't know how long it will take others to see it like me. It is difficult to correct a tradition, especially one that has been around for so long!

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You did not read that paper you quoted did you. That paper is against your position and is not supporting your position in regards to when the Sabbath starts. (Read the papers conclusion)

"The first day, found in Gen 1:2-5 started in the evening. God had created the darkness, and then he created the light. We cannot argue that the darkness was not a part of God’s creative work. The word rq,Bo belongs to day one grammatically, and it is therefore illogical to argue that the rq,Bo began day two. The structure of v. 5b is similar to a formula used extensively in the tAdl.AT section of Gen 5 that closes the account of a man’s life by summarizing how long he lived. Conceptually, the evening-morning motif ties in with Gen 1:2-5, which demonstrates that the world was covered first in darkness and chaos, but then light was created. Each subsequent day is a reenactment of that sequence of events that moves from darkness (chaos) to light (order). Clearly, the evidence shows that the morning theory is weak if it uses Gen 1:5 as its foundation.The rest of the biblical data is inconclusive as to when the Jewish day begins, though the texts that we have examined either support the evening theory or only weakly support the morning theory. The concept of cultic cleanness and certain festivals are strongly associated with evening. There are texts that may be interpreted according to the morning theory, though these are unclear. Heawood reminds us that “The very idea of time marked out mathematically into periods of twenty-four hours would be foreign to an age when the night was divided into watches, while the day was divided into hours, and those hours, it would seem, were of variable length.”70Why, then, does the beginning of the day matter? The most important and practical reason is that it has implications for religious observances, especially the Sabbath. Does the Sabbath begin on Friday night and go until sunset Saturday, or is it from sunrise Saturday to sunrise Sunday? As we have seen, using Lev 23:32 to prove that the Sabbath begins in the evening is rather unsound. However, the evidence from Gen 1:5, as well as texts such as John 20:1, demonstrate that the day begins before sunrise. Thus I believe that the traditional position of the Sabbath beginning and ending at sunset is still valid, and unless any other evidence comes to light, it will remain so." (McGuire 2008)

Much of the above is pretty much what has already been shared with you from Genesis 1:2-5 already without even reading or knowing about the above paper. There is not a single thing that you have ever provided here that supports your teaching that the Sabbath begins in the morning at sunrise. Your promoting teachings in regards to the Sabbath that are not biblical according to the scriptures but for some reason despite many people trying to help you here, you are not able to see it because your too far invested in your book. Even the very paper you provided above does not support your teachings and is against what you promote here but you cannot see it.

Something you should pray about Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

You did not read that paper you quoted did you. That paper is against your position and is not supporting your position in regards to when the Sabbath starts. (Read the papers conclusion)

Brother, did you notice that her list on each side talks about a different topic? The first list on the morning side talks about the day of the week, while the other list on the evening side talks about the Sabbath in Israel. It never occurred to her that both are true if the Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week in Israel as it was in Eden. I have a thread on the subject titled: "Are different Sabbaths true?" or we can talk here, whichever you prefer.

There is not a single thing that you have ever provided here that supports your teaching that as to when the Sabbath begins. Your promoting teachings in regards to the Sabbath that are not biblical but for some reason despite many people trying to help, you are not able to see it.

Let's look at one on her evidence list for the morning understanding of the day of the week and get your answer. Note that the issue here is the day of the week and not the Sabbath in Israel.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Brother, did you notice that her list on each side talks about a different topic? The first list on the morning side talks about the day of the week, while the other list on the evening side talks about the Sabbath in Israel. It never occurred to her that both are true if the Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week in Israel as it was in Eden. I have a thread on the subject titled: "Are different Sabbaths true?" or we can talk here, whichever you prefer.

Let's look at one on her evidence list for the morning understanding of the day of the week and get your answer. Note that the issue here is the day of the week and not the Sabbath in Israel.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You did not read the paper did you Jorge.

Paper conclusion...

"Thus I believe that the traditional position of the Sabbath beginning and ending at sunset is still valid, and unless any other evidence comes to light, it will remain so." (McGuire 2008)

 

[guevaraj]

You did not read the paper did you Jorge. Paper conclusion... "Thus I believe that the traditional position of the Sabbath beginning and ending at sunset is still valid, and unless any other evidence comes to light, it will remain so." (McGuire 2008)

Brother, what did you expect her to do, commit suicide politically? This paper will help the next generation to understand the topic better than those before the study. She is a smart woman who has gathered evidence for those who come after to take it further. You must read the paper and not just the conclusion to understand the issue that the conclusion does not solve.

“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.” (Mark 2:21-22 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Brother, what did you expect her to do, commit suicide politically? This paper will help the next generation to understand the topic better than those before the study. She is a smart woman who has gathered evidence for those who come after to take it further. You must read the paper and not just the conclusion to understand the issue that the conclusion does not solve.

“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.” (Mark 2:21-22 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The difference between us is that I read the paper. It seems you did not or did not understand it. There is nothing political in the paper whatsoever, it is a theological review of when a day starts according to scripture in the old testament and according to Jewish traditions comparing new scholar opinions that are different to the old scriptural and traditional views as to when a day starts. The conclusion of the paper is that there is nothing that supports a different view then what the bible teaches in Genesis 1:2-5 which is what I shared with you earlier when we first started talking. The paper you provided in fact does not support your position at all it support the position that many people have shared with you from the bible with the papers overall conclusion..."Thus I believe that the traditional position of the Sabbath beginning and ending at sunset is still valid, and unless any other evidence comes to light, it will remain so." (McGuire 2008).

I will leave you to it Jorge.

 

[guevaraj]

The difference between us is that I read the paper. It seems you did not or did not understand it. There is nothing political in the paper whatsoever, it is a theological review of when a day starts according to scripture in the old testament and according to Jewish traditions comparing new scholar opinions that are different to the old scriptural and traditional views as to when a day starts. The conclusion of the paper is that there is nothing that supports a different view then what the bible teaches in Genesis 1:2-5 which is what I shared with you earlier when we first started talking. The paper you provided in fact does not support your position at all it support my position that I have shared with you from the very first time we started talking finishing up with the papers overall conclusion..."Thus I believe that the traditional position of the Sabbath beginning and ending at sunset is still valid, and unless any other evidence comes to light, it will remain so." (McGuire 2008).

I will leave you to it Jorge.

Brother, if you understand the issue in the paper as you claim, let us here your answer to the following passage. Note that the issue here is the day of the week and not the Sabbath in Israel. Can you see that "night" comes after the "day" as the correct order of the two halves called by God the first day of the creation week in Genesis?

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge