The Law of God vs the Law of Moses

[HARK!]

119 Ministries dives deep into the scripture to define the Law of Elohim and the Law of Moshe. They cover the tablets, and the scripture that was placed outside of the Ark. They cover the written law, and the law on our hearts. They cover the two foremost precepts, and more.

 

[Soyeong]

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so the Law of Moses is the Law of God. Likewise, it is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:21-22, so all of the Law of Moses is the Law of God. Some of God's laws being placed outside the Ark, such as the greatest two commandments, does not make them any less part of the Law of God.

 

[HARK!]

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so the Law of Moses is the Law of God. Likewise, it is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:21-22, so all of the Law of Moses is the Law of God. Some of God's laws being placed outside the Ark, such as the greatest two commandments, does not make them any less part of the Law of God.

Did you watch the video?

 

[Soyeong]

Did you watch the video?

Not yet.

 

[HARK!]

Not yet.

I think that you'll like it. Are you familiar with 119 Ministries?

 

[Soyeong]

I think that you'll like it. Are you familiar with 119 Ministries?

Yes, I've seen a number of their videos, I just didn't have 40 minutes available to watch it when I saw this thread and it seems like my paragraph addresses the major issues for those who see a distinction between the Law of God and the Law of Moses.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

God's laws were in effect from the beginning. God's Sabbath was from the beginning Genesis 2:2-3. Able sacrificed to God -Genesis 4:4 -which had to be clean animals. God sent 7 pair of clean animals onto the ark with Noah. Abraham kept God's commandments, statutes, and laws.Genesis 26:5 - long before the law was given to Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

119 Ministries dives deep into the scripture to define the Law of Elohim and the Law of Moshe. They cover the tablets, and the scripture that was placed outside of the Ark. They cover the written law, and the law on our hearts. They cover the two foremost precepts, and more.

Christ also gives us some insight into this

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

"Commandment of God" also called "Word of God" also called "Moses said" -- by Christ in Mark 7

2 Peter 1:19-21 tells us all scripture is from God via the Holy Spirit .. .even the animal sacrifices which ended at the cross according to Heb 10:4-12

 

[HIM]

God's laws were in effect from the beginning. God's Sabbath was from the beginning Genesis 2:2-3. Able sacrificed to God -Genesis 4:4 -which had to be clean animals. God sent 7 pair of clean animals onto the ark with Noah. Abraham kept God's commandments, statutes, and laws.Genesis 26:5 - long before the law was given to Moses.

Good post my friend. It is a shame and a sham that your point is lost on most.

May the Lord continue to bless us in all His Way, Jesus Christ.

 

[Cribstyl]

God's laws were in effect from the beginning.

New testament does not give your understanding.
Jhn 1:17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Even Jesus said Moses gave the law to Israel.
Jhn 7:19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

To imply different is the real scam.
Scriptures show and proves when the law was given and to whom it was given. Does "Hear Oh Israel" mean "Hear Oh Adam?" well stop making stuff up.
Doesn't NT scripture use Adam to Moses to reference penalty of sin and when the law was given?
(ESV) Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

God's Sabbath was from the beginning Genesis 2:2-3.

What bible are you reading???
Lets apply that text to understanding.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The text explains that God blessed the 7th day and set it apart. WHY? Because He had ceased (rested, finished) from all His creation. No added comment about giving Adam the Sabbath.(until Moses declared "the Lord has given you the Sabbath" Ex16)

If God had given Adam the Sabbath, why did He say to Israel that; Sabbath was a covenant between me and you? (not for all humanity)

Able sacrificed to God -Genesis 4:4 -which had to be clean animals.

The scripture in Gen 4:4 is talking about an offering, but you're implying a sacrifice, as if God required it. do you have a scripture from Gen 1-4 as proof.

God sent 7 pair of clean animals onto the ark with Noah.

Show us texts where Noah sacrificed them or ate them. your comments are far from scripture.

Abraham kept God's commandments, statutes, and laws.Genesis 26:5 - long before the law was given to Moses.

We read in Abraham history where God commanded Abraham to leave his father and go to another country, kill his son (commandments). keep circumcision (statute, law)

You appear to be contradicting scriptures by your selective reasoning.

 

[BobRyan]

New testament does not give your understanding.
Jhn 1:17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Even Jesus said Moses gave the law to Israel.
Jhn 7:19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

NT says this

Commandment of God = Moses said = Word of God


Mark 7:
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

 

[BobRyan]

So then - I choose the Bible (Mark 7:6-13, Matt 19:17-19, Rom 3:31)

 

[Soyeong]

New testament does not give your understanding.
Jhn 1:17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Even Jesus said Moses gave the law to Israel.
Jhn 7:19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

To imply different is the real scam.
Scriptures show and proves when the law was given and to whom it was given. Does "Hear Oh Israel" mean "Hear Oh Adam?" well stop making stuff up.
Doesn't NT scripture use Adam to Moses to reference penalty of sin and when the law was given?
(ESV) Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

The existence of sin requires there to be a standard of what is and is not sin, and that standard is what is against God's nature which has been revealed through His law. So far as long as God's righteousness has been eternal there has existed eternal laws for how to testify about His righteousness, which we are obligated to follow, but whether those laws have always been made known to man is another issue. The fact that sin was in the world before laws that define what sin is were given demonstrates that those laws existed prior to when they were given, but our transgressions of those laws were not counted against us until they were given.

While it is true that the Mosaic Law was given to Israel, that does not mean that it was meant only for Israel because Israel was given the role of being a light and a blessing to the nations by teaching the nations how to obey it (Isaiah 2:2-3, 49:6, Deuteronomy 4:5-8). In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he might command his children and those of his household to walk in the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice so that the Lord may bring to Abraham all that He has promised him, namely that through his seed all of the nations of the earth would be blessed. In Genesis 26:4-5, God said that all of the nations of the earth would be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and kept his charge His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways that he might know Him, and Israel too. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. In Psalms 119:1, blessed are those who walk in the way of the Lord, so the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham that through his offspring all of the nations of the earth will be blessed is by his offspring blessing the nations by teaching them to turn from their wicked ways and how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law, which has its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus, who was sent to bless us by turning us from our wicked ways (Acts 3:25-26).

In Psalms 119:29, David wanted to put false ways behind him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to follow His law, and to choose the way of faithfulness. In Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so Noah knew how to do what is righteous because God graciously taught Him to follow laws for how to do that and he was righteous because he obeyed them through faith. In John 1:16-17, there is no "but" in the Greek, but rather it says grace upon grace, so one example of grace was being added upon another in a parallel statement.

What bible are you reading???
Lets apply that text to understanding.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The text explains that God blessed the 7th day and set it apart. WHY? Because He had ceased (rested, finished) from all His creation. No added comment about giving Adam the Sabbath.(until Moses declared "the Lord has given you the Sabbath" Ex16)

If God had given Adam the Sabbath, why did He say to Israel that; Sabbath was a covenant between me and you? (not for all humanity)

God created the world in six days and rested on the 7th day, so we can either choose to live in a way that testifies that this is true about who God is by keeping the 7th day holy or we can deny that this is true by refusing to keep the Sabbath. What is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the 7th day holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that. Unbelievers are still obligated to repent from what God's law reveals to be sin even though they aren't under the New Covenant, so there is nothing about not being under the Mosaic Covenant that means that we aren't obligated to repent from doing what God's law reveals to be sin. The Sabbath is for all Gentiles who want to become followers of God (Isaiah 56:1-8). The New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31), so if you want nothing to do what we only between God and Israel, then you can choose not be part of the New Covenant, but God is sovereign, so that wouldn't make you any less obligated to obey Him.

The scripture in Gen 4:4 is talking about an offering, but you're implying a sacrifice, as if God required it. do you have a scripture from Gen 1-4 as proof.

Show us texts where Noah sacrificed them or ate them. your comments are far from scripture.

In Genesis 8:20, Noah offered a clean animal.

We read in Abraham history where God commanded Abraham to leave his father and go to another country, kill his son (commandments). keep circumcision (statute, law)

You appear to be contradicting scriptures by your selective reasoning.

The Hebrew words used refer to far more than just the instructions to go to another country, kill his son, and be circumcised.

 

[Cribstyl]

NT says this

Commandment of God = Moses said = Word of God


Mark 7:
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

You're not addressing my reply to Loaves and Fishes post.
Your comments above have some truths, but it does not establish biblical facts about when, and to whom, the law was first given.
I agree with you, that the Law of God, is the law of Moses and the Word of God
The scriptures I posted contradicts the commentary L&F posted.

 

[BobRyan]

NT says this: Commandment of God = Moses said = Word of God
...

You're not addressing my reply to Loaves and Fishes post.
Your comments above have some truths, but it does not establish biblical facts about when, and to whom, the law was first given.

Mark 2:27 Sabbath made for "mankind"
Ex 20:11 at the making of "mankind" the Sabbath was set apart, sanctified, made holy
Gen 2:1-3 at the making of mankind - the Sabbath was set apart, sanctified, made holy
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

Jer 31:31-34 the NEW Covenant for mankind - for the saints, given to "Israel and the house of Judah" and "unchanged" in the NT -- Heb 8:6-12

Eph 6:1-2 the TEN Commandments having "Honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" - are still binding on all mankind

this means it is still "a sin" even for gentiles - to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

Bible scholars in almost every major Christian denomination - on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate - freely admit to these easy Bible details.

 

[Cribstyl]

Mark 2:27 Sabbath made for "mankind"

Mar 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

By posting the whole verse we see your agenda... Jesus did not say that sabbath was made for mankind. He said "Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."

Ex 20:11 at the making of "mankind" the Sabbath was set apart, sanctified, made holy
Gen 2:1-3 at the making of mankind - the Sabbath was set apart, sanctified, made holy

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

Jer 31:31-34 the NEW Covenant for mankind - for the saints, given to "Israel and the house of Judah" and "unchanged" in the NT -- Heb 8:6-12

Eph 6:1-2 the TEN Commandments having "Honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" - are still binding on all mankind

this means it is still "a sin" even for gentiles - to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

Bible scholars in almost every major Christian denomination - on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate - freely admit to these easy Bible details.

OH, OK..... I see what you're up to. All these points are over exaggerated to make arguments. All these scriptures should be read in context for wisdom. I've been down that rabbit hole on each of those text to show that not even 1 matches the commentary you've placed around it.

Gen2:1-3 Tells us that God rested on the 7th day because He finished all his work. Making of mankind is not included in the texts.
Ex 21:11 articulates that by saying;

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:
wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Question: Does the text say in Ex20; "wherefore the Lord blessed the seventh day or wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day?
Scriptures prove that the 7th day in creation was blessed because God rested from creating everything.
Scriptures here in Ex 20:11 proves that Sabbath is blessed because God rested on the 7th day in creation. We cant negate a few chapters earlier (Ex 16) where Moses said the Lord have given you the Sabbath.
Exo 16:29

See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

If the world was given the Sabbath at creation that would not be said to one people.
Your commentary is designed to change the understanding of the scriptures.

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 2:27 Sabbath made for "mankind"
Ex 20:11 at the making of "mankind" the Sabbath was set apart, sanctified, made holy
Gen 2:1-3 at the making of mankind - the Sabbath was set apart, sanctified, made holy
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

Mar 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Agreed

By posting the whole verse we see your agenda...

Agreed - we see the making of BOTH the Sabbath AND the making of mankind in Gen 1:2-Gen 2:3 so it is no wonder that God's Sabbath Commandment points to Gen 2:1-3 in that 7th day of creation week - where BOTH the Sabbath AND mankind were made. Mark 2:27 speaks of the "MAKING" of BOTH

Mar 2:27And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind made for the Sabbath:

OH, OK..... I see what you're up to.

ok it is nice when a point gets across.

Gen2:1-3 Tells us that God rested on the 7th day because He finished all his work. Making of mankind is not included in the texts.

So we all know that there are NO Chapter divisions in Moses' text and we all know that the making of mankind is what immediately precedes the making of the 7th day in Gen 2:1-3.


Ex 21:11 articulates that by saying;

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The text says that 7 day creation week is the sole reason for making the Sabbath holy in Gen 2:1-3

 

[BABerean2]

Agreed



Agreed - we see the making of BOTH the Sabbath AND the making of mankind in Gen 1:2-Gen 2:3 so it is no wonder that God's Sabbath Commandment points to Gen 2:1-3 in that 7th day of creation week - where BOTH the Sabbath AND mankind were made. Mark 2:27 speaks of the "MAKING" of BOTH

Mar 2:27And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind made for the Sabbath:



ok it is nice when a point gets across.



So we all know that there are NO Chapter divisions in Moses' text and we all know that the making of mankind is what immediately precedes the making of the 7th day in Gen 2:1-3.


Ex 21:11 articulates that by saying;

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The text says that 7 day creation week is the sole reason for making the Sabbath holy in Gen 2:1-3

If you are working six days a week trying to keep the ten commandments perfectly, you would probably need a day of rest from your human efforts.


Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ; (YLT)


Former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff, Does the Sabbath day continue in the New Covenant?

.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If you are working six days a week trying to keep the ten commandments perfectly, you would probably need a day of rest from your human efforts.


Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ; (YLT)

Former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff, Does the Sabbath day continue in the New Covenant? .

Hello BABerean2,

While I do not agree with the claims of the OP here (I believe the scriptures teach all laws of the old covenant are Gods' law but there is a difference between Gods' eternal law (10 commandments) and those that are "shadows laws" pointing to the body of Christ from the book of the Mosaic book of the law fulfilled in Jesus and continued in Him). Regardless of this we are in the new covenant time now not the old covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-47) where God's eternal law (10 commandments) is to be written on the heart through the Spirit of God to love. So there is no excuse in breaking God's law here and that of course includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

You have a little catching up to do in regards to your claims in to the Sabbath at creation and Colossians 2:16. You keep re-posting the same thing over and over in different threads here without addressing anyone's posts and the scriptures that disagree with you.

Your claims about the Sabbath being a "shadow law" was addressed in a detailed scripture response in in another thread in here 1; here 2 showing that it is impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a shadow of anything (linked post # 2). Your response of course was just to ignore the scripture context you left out showing that Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the annual Feast days not Gods 4th commandment (linked post # 1). Ignoring Gods' Word dear friend will not make it disappear according to Jesus in John 12:47-48.

HOW THE SABBATH WAS CHANGED TO SUNDAY WORSHIP

UNLEARN THE LIES ...

We should not ignore Gods' Words according to Jesus as it becomes our judge come judgement day for the words of God we accept or reject according to John 12:47-48.

 

[BABerean2]

So there is no excuse in breaking God's law here and that of course includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

You are accusing me of breaking the Sabbath day in the same way the Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath day in the passage below.

Did Jesus work on the Sabbath day, and did he tell a man to do work on the Sabbath day?

What is the difference between your accusations, and those of the Pharisees?

Why was it legal for Jesus to work on the Sabbath day?


Joh 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Joh 5:2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew, Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of sick people, blind, lame, paralyzed, waiting for the moving of the water.
Joh 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain time into the pool and stirred up the water; then whoever stepped in first, after the stirring of the water, was made well of whatever disease he had.
Joh 5:5 Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years.
Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he already had been in that condition a long time, He said to him, "Do you want to be made well?"
Joh 5:7 The sick man answered Him, "Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me."
Joh 5:8 Jesus said to him, "Rise, take up your bed and walk."
Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked. And that day was the Sabbath.
Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, "It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed."
Joh 5:11 He answered them, "He who made me well said to me, 'Take up your bed and walk.' "
Joh 5:12 Then they asked him, "Who is the Man who said to you, 'Take up your bed and walk'?"
Joh 5:13 But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a multitude being in that place.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."
Joh 5:15 The man departed and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
Joh 5:16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working."


.