The Law is eternal...

[Byfaithalone1]

None of what you said, in your human philosophy, can be supported with the Bible.

Colossians 2:8 Be careful! Don't let anyone capture you with philosophy or misleading theories that can fool you. These come from human tradition and worldly standards, not from Christ!

Would the following hypothetical represent "human tradition:"

What if John Doe became convicted that he should observe the passover. However, because John realized that it would not be conducive to observe it exactly as God commanded the Israelites to observe it, John established new passover rules. Instead of offering a real animal sacrifice, John concluded that a person should go to church on passover; talk about the importance of the passover Lamb; avoid work; microwave but not bake; wade but not swim; play catch but not a game; neither buy nor sell from sundown to sundown. What if John eventually decided that it was imperative that every man should observe the passover as he did?

What if, over time, a group of people joined John and began meeting together and doing as John did? What if this group began to see their passover observance as being their identifying mark and they concluded that they had God's final remnant message to proclaim to the world? What if they concluded that passover observance would one day become the great dividing line between those who receive the mark of the beast and those who receive the seal of God? What if they began offering prophecy seminars that began with general topics relating to the love of God and ended with the proclamation that all must observe the passover or risk one day losing their salvation? Would this teaching be of God, or would it be human tradition?
​

BFA

 

[Avonia]

LOL... you got jokes.... let's not go there okay....

Stormy, I appreciate this response - taking the high road. We've had some great exchanges among people with quite different beliefs - that's part of what makes this forum valuable.

K4C, you obviously have some different ideas than some here. I hope you choose to share them in a respectful way.

 

[k4c]

Sheeze, you've gotten pretty self righteous since we last interacted.
What makes you think that saying God does not steal is a character attribute of God?

You are playing with words. God's charatcer is that He does not do these things so if we are made in His image we shouldn't either.

Speaking the truth and exposing the works of darkness is not self righteousness, it's a command of God.

Ephesians 5:11 Don't share in those deeds of darkness. They are not productive. Instead, prove that they are wrong.

 

[k4c]

Would the following hypothetical represent "human tradition:"

What if John Doe became convicted that he should observe the passover. However, because John realized that it would not be conducive to observe it exactly as God commanded the Israelites to observe it, John established new passover rules. Instead of offering a real animal sacrifice, John concluded that a person should go to church on passover; talk about the importance of the passover Lamb; avoid work; microwave but not bake; wade but not swim; play catch but not a game; neither buy nor sell from sundown to sundown. What if John eventually decided that it was imperative that every man should observe the passover as he did?

What if, over time, a group of people joined John and began meeting together and doing as John did? What if this group began to see their passover observance as being their identifying mark and they concluded that they had God's final remnant message to proclaim to the world? What if they concluded that passover observance would one day become the great dividing line between those who receive the mark of the beast and those who receive the seal of God? What if they began offering prophecy seminars that began with general topics relating to the love of God and ended with the proclamation that all must observe the passover or risk one day losing their salvation? Would this teaching be of God, or would it be human tradition?
​

BFA

I would test what John Doe was teaching and if it lined up with what God says than praise God for his good works.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I would test what John Doe was teaching and if it lined up with what God says than praise God for his good works.

K4C, just curious how you would rate John's teaching.

BFA

 

[k4c]

K4C, just curious how you would rate John's teaching.

BFA

I would say he had a problem with this statement, "It would not be conducive to observe it exactly as God commanded".

 

[Joe67]

If you've been reading my threads you would have no need to hope because you would know for sure.

k4c,

We know imperfectly, immaturely.

Col 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; KJV

Your servant in Jesus our Lord,
Joe

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy, I appreciate this response - taking the high road. We've had some great exchanges among people with quite different beliefs - that's part of what makes this forum valuable.

K4C, you obviously have some different ideas than some here. I hope you choose to share them in a respectful way.

Avonia, you and AzA are wearing off on me I suppose....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I would say he had a problem with this statement, "It would not be conducive to observe it exactly as God commanded".

Do modern day sabbatarians have a similar problem?

Do they, for example, offer the special sacrifices that God commanded the Israelites to offer on each seventh day sabbath?

BFA

 

[k4c]

Did you read what I posted?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Did you read what I posted?

Indeed, I did. In your last post, you concern about the idea that a convocation was not being observed as God had commanded. I share your concern and would like to discuss this concern further.

Building on my last post, one must wonder about the claim that "the law is eternal." If it is true that "the law is eternal," then shouldn't the method of keeping the law also be eternal? Since God commanded the Israelites to offer a special sacrifice on the seventh day sabbath, shouldn't modern day sabbatarians offer the same sacrifice? And, if they do not, what should we make of their claim that the law is eternal?

BFA

 

[k4c]

Indeed, I did. In your last post, you concern about the idea that a convocation was not being observed as God had commanded. I share your concern and would like to discuss this concern further.

Building on my last post, one must wonder about the claim that "the law is eternal." If it is true that "the law is eternal," then shouldn't the method of keeping the law also be eternal? Since God commanded the Israelites to offer a special sacrifice on the seventh day sabbath, shouldn't modern day sabbatarians offer the same sacrifice? And, if they do not, what should we make of their claim that the law is eternal?

BFA

The Sabbath was created blessed and sanctified before sin was in the world and has nothing to do with sin. Any and all sacrifices are temporary and have to do with sin. Jesus is the end of all sacrifices. Jesus is Lord of THE SABBATH which means the Sabbath is still important to God and His people.

 

[Kira Light]

The Sabbath was created blessed and sanctified before sin was in the world and has nothing to do with sin. Any and all sacrifices are temporary and have to do with sin. Jesus is the end of all sacrifices. Jesus is Lord of THE SABBATH which means the Sabbath is still important to God and His people.

SO KEEP SATURDAY HOLY OR ELSE!!!11!

 

[k4c]

SO KEEP SATURDAY HOLY OR ELSE!!!11!

You need to respond to your last acusation before you start your next one. But as far as your above comment goes, your above statement is a perfect example of one who needs to fall in love with God. When someone loves God you won't hear these kinds of statements.

Now let's deal with your last acusation.

Originally Posted by Kira Light

Looks like I got it totally right! You can keep running and screaming away from EGW, but you are in her church and you follow her rules.

You can tell me all day long that you have "different motives and different power sources" for why you keep the 10 commandments, but it just sounds like a joke. Listen to yourself for a second with your power sources and what have you.

I did check out your site before and it was a gigantic wall of text. You are still in full attack mode against the fledgling Catholic church and the pope! You truly are a man after EGW's heart. I would guess you even believe the pope is 1 beast in revelations and the US is the other and there is gonna be a Sunday law soon and all that great SDA stuff!

Keep beating that old drum man. We've been like halfway through the book of Revelations for 150 years now. Where the heck is Armageddon?!
​

And what about all these people, are they followers of EGW? They all believed the Bible as it related to the papcy and the Vatican.

John Calvin (1509-1564) founder of the Presbyterian Church.

John Wesley (1703-1791) founder of the Methodist Church.

SIR ISAAC NEWTON (1643-1727) physicist, mathematician.

John Knox (1505-1572) Scottish Reformer.

Philipp Melanchthon (1497-1560) Associate of Martin Luther.

William Tyndale (1484-1536) 1st translator of Bible.

John Wyclif (1324-1384) Completed the 1st English translation of the Bible.

Charles SPURGEON (1834-92) Respected preacher.

John BUNYAN (1628-1688) Respected preacher.

Charles FINNEY (1792-1875) Respected preacher.

D.L. Moody (1837-1899) founder of Moody Bible institute, Baptist.

Martin Luther (1483-1546) founder of the Lutheran Church.

Listen to what Martin Luther said regarding the Pope.

"Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us the day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan at Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the Apostle Paul wrote that he would oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God — the Man of Sin, the son of perdition . . . What is the Temple of God? Is it stones and wood? Did not Paul say, The Temple of God is holy, which Temple ye are? To sit — what is it but to reign, to teach and to judge. Who from the beginning of the church has dared to call himself master of the whole church but the Pope alone. None of the saints, none of the heretics ever uttered so horrible a word of pride." (Luther's Works, Vol. 2. p. 281).

I'm beginning to believe you are suffering from spiritual blindness inwhich you need to ask God to open your eyes or maybe it's God sending strong delusion.

Pay attention to the words, lawlessness and unrighteousness.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The Law of God defines what is right. If you're born of God you will practice righteousness, not do away with it.

1 John 3:9-10 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Is what I posted only an EGW teaching or is there much, much more to what I post than just your fear of EGW?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The Sabbath was created blessed and sanctified before sin was in the world and has nothing to do with sin.

Like all laws, the sabbath was added. We could rehash the same old debate about when men first set aside a sabbath, but no matter which side we take, we won't alter the fact that the sabbath had a beginning -- like all laws, the sabbath was added.

I share Paul's conclusion that the law was added because of transgression. Therefore, I cannot conclude that any law was added before there was transgression. Further, I note that there is no Biblical basis for conclusing that the sabbath was given to men before sin. I am well aware of the fact that we disagree on this point, and I'm fine with it.

Any and all sacrifices are temporary and have to do with sin. Jesus is the end of all sacrifices.

Biblical sabbath keeping includes sacrifices. You seem to claim that the sacrifices ended and that a new form of sabbath keeping has since emerged. Please show us the Scriptures that describe what modern day sabbath keeping should be.

Ultimate question: If the way in which a law is to be kept has changed, is that law truly eternal?

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The Law of God defines what is right.

TRUE OR FALSE? The Spirit convicts with respect to sin and righteousnes and judgment.

TRUE OR FALSE? The Spirit existed before the law was added and continues to exist since the Seed has come.

TRUE OR FALSE? The Spirit is God. The law is a shadow that points to God.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

SO KEEP SATURDAY HOLY OR ELSE!!!!

I suspect that SDAism would say that this is untrue. Rather, SDAism would say that there will eventually come a day when the seventh day sabbath will be the dividing line between those who receive the mark of the beast and those who receive the seal of God.

Whenever I hear this, I suppose the person is trying to soften the impact of this SDA teaching. I don't know about you, but it doesn't really matter to me when this will supposedly happen. At the end of the day, I have to reject the idea that the law is or will ever be salvational.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

I suspect that SDAism would say that this is untrue. Rather, SDAism would say that there will eventually come a day when the seventh day sabbath will be the dividing line between those who receive the mark of the beast and those who receive the seal of God.

Whenever I hear this, I suppose the person is trying to soften the impact of this SDA teaching. I don't know about you, but it doesn't really matter to me when this will supposedly happen. At the end of the day, I have to reject the idea that the law is or will ever be salvational.

BFA

BFA,

We are saved by hope.

Rom 8:24
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA,

We are saved by hope.

Rom 8:24
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? KJV

Joe

Great text! Thanks, Joe. Building on what you've written, here are some additional perspectives:

NASB: "24For in hope we have been (past tense) saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?"

NIV: "24For in this hope we were (past tense) saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?"

ESV: "24For in this hope we were saved (past tense). Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?"

YLT: "24for in hope we were saved (past tense), and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for [it]?"
​

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

The Sabbath was created blessed and sanctified before sin was in the world and has nothing to do with sin. Any and all sacrifices are temporary and have to do with sin. Jesus is the end of all sacrifices. Jesus is Lord of THE SABBATH which means the Sabbath is still important to God and His people.

The seventh day was blessed and santified because God was finished with creation. No mention of sabbath day until Egypt.
Gen 2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.