The Last Supper

[OSAS 101]

My question is about coptic Christians.
There are a few where I live and they attend Eastern Orthodox churches .
One such person is a doctor who in his outer office has a picture hanging of the Last Supper.
As I looked at it, it had 13 Apostles instead of twelve.
Can anyone tell me why?

 

[icxn]

So there were 14 persons depicted? Christ + 13?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I would ask on the Coptic forum, as they are not in our communion. our icons I have only ever seen the 12 and Christ at the head.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I would ask on the Coptic forum, as they are not in our communion. our icons I have only ever seen the 12 and Christ at the head.

I have to admit, I was curious.

I have seen a Coptic icon of the Mystical Supper that had an interesting treatment of Judas - he was not seated with the others but outside with his back turned to them. I don't think he had a demon character or angel depicted with him though. So still Jesus + the 11 + Judas.

I've never seen 13 + Jesus.

The OO forum is here - The Voice In The Desert - Oriental Orthodox

 

[Gxg (G²)]

My question is about coptic Christians.
There are a few where I live and they attend Eastern Orthodox churches .
One such person is a doctor who in his outer office has a picture hanging of the Last Supper.
As I looked at it, it had 13 Apostles instead of twelve.
Can anyone tell me why?

Gotta picture for reference? I'll ask around some of the folks on my side (Eastern and Coptic) since I think I've seen something before.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I have to admit, I was curious.

I have seen a Coptic icon of the Mystical Supper that had an interesting treatment of Judas - he was not seated with the others but outside with his back turned to them. I don't think he had a demon character or angel depicted with him though. So still Jesus + the 11 + Judas.​

The one I know of that deals with that is here (Icon of Last Supper from St.George Orthodox Ministry):

All 11 Apostles are shown in the icon to have halos and John is seen leaning against Christ, whereas Judas Iscariot (far left) is seen leaving in the background. The story in John 13. There are others of course and I've seen (from my memory) similar in Eastern icons too. But they always have the 11 minus Judas who betrayed them

But yeah, I'm curious with what the reference is on 13 apostles. St.Paul is the only one who'd be added on to the list (alongside St.Matthias)

 

[~Anastasia~]

The one I know of that deals with that is here (Icon of Last Supper from St.George Orthodox Ministry):

All 11 Apostles are shown in the icon to have halos and John is seen leaning against Christ, whereas Judas Iscariot (far left) is seen leaving in the background. The story in John 13. There are others of course and I've seen (from my memory) similar in Eastern icons too.

But yeah, I'm curious with what the reference is on 13 apostles. St.Paul is the only one who'd be added on to the list (alongside St.Matthias)

The one I saw was similar to the last one - Judas was actually not with the others anymore but exiting to the left. He was more clearly seen than this one, but otherwise pretty similar.

I was thinking of St. Paul too, since he takes Judas' place (or Matthias' I suppose) on the upper level of the iconostasis on our parish. (I say "our parish" because I've seen some parishes without the 12 Apostles above the main iconostasis row of icons - I don't know if it was unfinished/architectural issues in different cases, or if it's not actually required.)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The one I saw was similar to the last one - Judas was actually not with the others anymore but exiting to the left. He was more clearly seen than this one, but otherwise pretty similar.

Got ya. There are several variations of that.

I was thinking of St. Paul too, since he takes Judas' place (or Matthias' I suppose) on the upper level of the iconostasis on our parish. (I say "our parish" because I've seen some parishes without the 12 Apostles above the main iconostasis row of icons - I don't know if it was unfinished/architectural issues in different cases, or if it's not actually required.)

From the parishes I have visited, I saw the same with St.Paul and all the other Apostles (including St.Matthias) present.

Technically, since there were 13 tribes in the OT (with Joseph's tribe split with his sons, Ephraim and Mannaseh), it really was never a hard time for me seeing St.Paul in addition to St.Matthias in Acts 1 leading to 13 Apostles. And in addition to this, as Joseph's sons were part Gentile (Egyptian), of course having St.Paul as a 13th Apostle to the Gentiles fit well. But of course, St.Paul saw Christ risen after the Grave and didn't walk with him...so he'd not be one of the 12.

 

[prodromos]

Perhaps it is actually an icon of Pentecost and not the last supper

 

[OSAS 101]

I would ask on the Coptic forum, as they are not in our communion. our icons I have only ever seen the 12 and Christ at the head.

I didn't see no coptic forum

 

[prodromos]

I didn't see no coptic forum

The Voice In The Desert - Oriental Orthodox
There are currently only a couple of Oriental Orthodox who post regularly, but there isn't much activity on their home forum. You probably did best posting where you did as they often pop in here.

 

[OSAS 101]

I searched high and low on google, can't find it
But I saw it as I discussed it with one of the nurses
she never caught it before and was equally surprised

 

[prodromos]

Icons of Pentecost usually include the Apostle Paul, even though he was not converted until much later, but the icons usually still depict only 12 Apostles. It is possible that this is a Last Supper icon that includes Paul by the same reasoning he is included in Pentecost. Does one of the Apostles have a brown beard and a bald head?

 

[OSAS 101]

Icons of Pentecost usually include the Apostle Paul, even though he was not converted until much later, but the icons usually still depict only 12 Apostles. It is possible that this is a Last Supper icon that includes Paul by the same reasoning he is included in Pentecost. Does one of the Apostles have a brown beard and a bald head?

I can't remember.
I don't go there anymore.
But on the right side of Jesus, a 4th person was added in that middle opening