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The Last Days

RandyPNW

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And so on and so forth. But the net net is that the revelation can b made to make sense to some extent as an apocalyptic work in the 1st century, but almost not at all if it's set in the 21s century or later.
Rome is looked at, indirectly, in Dan 7 as the 4th and last Kingdom in the present age. It was not, however, limited to the Rome of John the Revelator's time. Roman Civilization has become European Civilization, since Rome was Christianized and then spread throughout Europe, East and West, as a Christian civilization.

When in Dan 7 we read of the 3.5 years of the Antichrist, it is the end of this final 4th Kingdom of Rome in the modern world. That is, you define John's audience as limited to his own time, which is not true when viewed up against Dan 7, the end of the present age, or as viewed against the Olivet Discourse of Jesus, who foresaw a long dispersion of the Jews, the Jewish Diaspora.
 
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The Liturgist

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The prevailing theory is that the mark of the beast will be some sort of a computer chip by which we are all connected to a universal banking system through which all transactions are processed.

Prevalent among? I only see a minority of premillenial dispensationalists take such a view. In the Orthodox Church and other traditional liturgical churches no one engages in that kind of speculation, for indeed we are taught that no man can know the day or hour of His return. When Christ does return computers as we know them might no longer exist.
 
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Douggg

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Doug et al., I agree that a covenant makes more sense than a peace treaty. However, the man of sin referred to in Ezekiel is obviously the King of Tyre. He may be a precursor to the beast, but he is not the beast. Many people believe that the beast will be Caesar Nero come back to life.
In Ezekiel 28, there is a segment at the start referring to the "prince of Tyrus (Tyre)", That is a code name for the Antichrist who magnifies himself in his heart that he has achieved God-hood, and sits in the temple of God, to publicize his claim. The 2Thessalonians2:4 event.

God has him assassinated for his outlandish claim, in Ezekiel 28:7-9

The next segment of Ezekiel 28 is about the "king of Tyrus (Tyre)". From the context of the verses, that is a code name for Satan. And describes Satan's end (as a terror that he will be when he is cast down to the earth in Revelation 12:12) when Jesus returns.

Ezekiel 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

How do you determine that the beast will come out the EU?
The person who eventually develops into being the beast-king starts as the little horn person of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.

In Daniel 7, he is the leader of ten kings of the fourth kingdom of iron teeth. That kingdom of course represents the Roman Empire. Since the little horn person is time of the end in Daniel 8:10-17, we have to determine what is the Roman empire at the time of the end.

The EU contains Italy and Rome, as part of its union of nations. The EU was initially founded as the European Economic Community by the treaty of Rome in 1957. And then developed into the EU, in 1992, by the Maastricht Treaty.

There are currently 27 countries in EU. More than ten kings. Therefore, since the ten kings group described in Daniel 7 is limited to just ten kings, there will have to be some sort of panel formed, maybe for defense, of ten EU leaders. Remains to be seen how that develops.

I am keeping an eye on Zelensky of Ukraine. Ukraine has been applying to be one of the EU member states. So we will just have to keep an eye on things, to see if Zelensky actually fulfills the role of the little horn person. Maybe yes, maybe no.
 
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RandyPNW

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Prevalent among? I only see a minority of premillenial dispensationalists take such a view. In the Orthodox Church and other traditional liturgical churches no one engages in that kind of speculation, for indeed we are taught that no man can know the day or hour of His return. When Christ does return computers as we know them might no longer exist.
You have a much broader perspective, as opposed to those encircled by Dispensationalist literature and followers. In US Christian bookstores for a long time, I saw entire shelves in the "prophecy" section dominated by Dispensationalist books. Irritated the heck out of me, since like you I don't see Dispensationalism as the dominant eschatology in the universal Church.

I realize that Amillennialism has been the favored view in the Church for almost its entire history. However, Premillennialism has equal legitimacy in the history of the Church as I see it. It was the prevailing view early on and has enjoyed a resurgence since the 1800s with Dispensationalism.

I believe that the symbolic interpretation of prophetic Scriptures took place in tandem with the loss of faith in Israel's national restoration. But since Israel is on the rise in modern times, Premillennialism has arisen along with it. Part of it, however, was the Futurism of Catholics Ribera, Bellarmine, and Lacunza. That has bolstered modern Premillennial belief.
 
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Dave Watchman

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Henry VIII self appointment as head of church 1531 + 70 sevens
2021.
Death 1547 + 69 sevens 2030.

How... interesting.
I actually think it is... interesting. I remember interplanner asking what's the big deal with 1535? That was back in the day before I knew the answer.


I'm a 1535 guy. There's 1536, and I think Christian Widener is a 1537 guy. So now there's 1531 and 1547. I was just mentioning King Henry the other day on another forum.

Back then the "crowns" were on the "heads", or the authority was given to the religious portion of the church/state entity. The Pope was in charge back then. The King of England had to ask the Pope if he could get a divorce from his wife. King Henry VIII of England sought an annulment from his wife, Catherine of Aragon, rather than a divorce. He needed the Pope’s approval because the Catholic Church did not permit divorce. I think he beheaded his next wife, until death did they part. That's why he made the "church" of England. Lol.

But back in any of the aforementioned "dates", for the heptad counters out there, they were still on the Julian in those years. New Years wasn't observed until March 25, to April 1. The Gregorian move to a January 1st New Year, came in 1582.

When does the new year begin? Is it January 1 or April 1? For centuries, each new year began on April 1, the day designated by the Julian Calendar developed by Julius Caesar in 46 BC. Eight day New Year's celebrations started on March 25 and ended with large parties on April 1. In 1582, however, Pope Gregory XIII moved New Year's Day to January 1. He issued a papal bull requiring everyone to follow his system known as the Gregorian Calendar.​
Was the world ready for such a big change? Citizens in predominantly Catholic countries such as Spain, Portugal, and Italy obeyed Pope Gregory XIII and began to celebrate January 1 as the first day of a new year. Protesters who disagreed with pope's decision insisted on keeping April 1 as the date for their new year's celebrations. When these protesters took to the streets to dance, sing, and shout on April 1, they were called April Fools for having new year celebrations on what many believed to be the wrong day.​

Peaceful Sabbath
 
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claninja

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Many people believe that we are fast approaching or have already entered into the last days, or the end of the world as we know it. There will be a momentous change to the way things are immediately when Jesus Christ returns to the planet coming in the clouds of heaven and immediately thereafter. Matthew chapter 24 provides a brief summation of these days.

What I have gathered from my studies, and some of this is by interpretation and not literal translation of the Bible, is that the man commonly referred to as the Antichrist, but is called the beast in the Book of Revelation, whose number is 666, will sign a peace treaty with Israel and this initiates the last seven year period, or the tribulation period, before all things are made new.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Things get worse after that. The beast will gain control over the whole earth. He will force people basically to bow down and worship him or be killed. Accompanying the beast will be a false prophet and Revelation 16:17 "And he (the false prophet) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." By all means, do not receive the mark of the beast upon your body.

The prevailing theory is that the mark of the beast will be some sort of a computer chip by which we are all connected to a universal banking system through which all transactions are processed.

The identity of the beast will be made plain because Rev. 13:3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." The interpretation of this passage is that the beast will be shot in the head, an injury that would result in the death of any other man, but he will survive by the power of Satan.

Some time in the second half of the tribulation period, Jesus returns on the clouds and the saints, believers, will be raptured up to heaven. Then ensues the worst time in the history of the world, the seven angels coming with the last seven plagues. See Revelation chapter 15. The climactic battle of Armageddon occurs and (Rev. 19:20) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."


Then follows a thousand year period of peace on earth for those who got the victory over the beast. This is just a brief summation of what I have come to learn about the time of the return of Jesus Christ. There's an excellent book that goes into much more detail than I have here if you're interested. It's called "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church" by Marvin Rosenthal and is available at Amazon.com and I'm sure, at other booksellers as well.

The first century Apostles claimed to be living In the last days, at the end of the ages, and that the coming of the Lord was near, without delay:
  • Acts 2:16-17
  • 1 Corinthians 10:11
  • 1 Peter 4:7
  • James 5:8-9
  • Hebrews 9:26
  • Hebrews 10:37
  • 1 John 2:18-19
 
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ombowstring1

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The world political situation is obviously intertwined with Biblical prophecy concerning the last days because the beast will rule over the whole world.

A woman from El Salvador told me recently that people there work all day for $10. How many Americans are going to work all day for $10? These other countries can provide cheap labor. The USA just can't. These tariffs are misplaced. Countries around the world should each play their complementary roles in the global economy. This is what Trump just doesn't understand.

The Prime Minister of Australia said that these Trump tariffs were “not the act of a friend”. The worldwide retaliation to this horrible mistake, these tariffs, will be devastating to the global economy. It really is an act of war and not just against our enemies, but against our friends.

Just as the Great Depression of the 1930's led to the rise of Hitler and World War II, don't be surprised if what is set in motion here will give rise to the 666 beast.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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A basic about "kingdoms" in the scriptures. There is a kingdom, unseen:

Matthew 12:26

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Yes, Satan has a kingdom, with occupants called devils and Jezebel (Rev. 2:20)

IF any reader is not factoring in the unseen kingdom they are missing a lot.

In scripture there are 2 over riding kingdoms. God's Kingdom and Satan's. The scriptures revolve around these 2 kingdoms, and not the kingdoms we see with our eyes.

That unseen kingdom of Satan is also a generation, singular, in scripture. The devil has had one very long day from the Garden until present.

Matt. 12:
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Jesus showed us all very clearly that the habitation of devils, of wicked spirits, are IN MANKIND. They consider "man" "my house." These are the usurpers in the temple of man.

Jesus even showed us how these are seeded in Mark 4:15

These wicked spirits are a generation, singular. They have a kingdom, unseen. They are also a "nation," singular.

Add these facts to your repertoire of scriptural understandings and looking at the outside world won't mean much to you anymore, IF you can get past your own internal blocker, our adversary, the tempter.

When Jesus said kingdom shall rise against kingdom He was NOT discussing kingdoms we see with our eyes.

God speed
 
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Douggg

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Matthew 12:26

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Yes, Satan has a kingdom, with occupants called devils and Jezebel (Rev. 2:20)

IF any reader is not factoring in the unseen kingdom they are missing a lot.

In scripture there are 2 over riding kingdoms. God's Kingdom and Satan's. The scriptures revolve around these 2 kingdoms, and not the kingdoms we see with our eyes.
The name assigned to Satan and his angels kingdom is Mystery, Babylon the great.

In Revelation 18, Babylon is fallen, is fallen is referring to when Satan and his angels will be cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9. Satan then having just a time, times, half time left. As God starts dismantling his kingdom.

In Revelation 18, the fall of Satan's kingdom is compared to the fall of a great trading city.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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The name assigned to Satan and his angels kingdom is Mystery, Babylon the great.
Good catch. Most students of eschatology never make it to that conclusion, even though it's right there in scripture, plainly stated
In Revelation 18, Babylon is fallen, is fallen is referring to when Satan and his angels will be cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9.
Satan has been here on earth since day 1 iirc and his devils have piled up since
Satan then having just a time, times, half time left. As God starts dismantling his kingdom.
Well, that's pretty close as well. Maybe we'll hit this again later
In Revelation 18, the fall of Satan's kingdom is compared to the fall of a great trading city.
Indeed:

Revelation 18:13
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
 
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Dave Watchman

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The world political situation is obviously intertwined with Biblical prophecy concerning the last days because the beast will rule over the whole world.
I know. What's happening yesterday and today is having an impact on the whole world. If Satan, the Antichrist, wanted to take over the world, he'd start by taking over the most powerful man, and the most influential nation on earth. It wouldn't work if he just then entered into the President of Vietnam.

I wrote a note on another forum a couple weeks ago showing who the Stern Faced King was. How he could be identified by his actions in the lower verses of Daniel 11, as he sought to divide the land for a price, for a profit. I got deleted within four hours. 80% of Evangelical Christians voted for him. Lol.


The Prime Minister of Australia said that these Trump tariffs were “not the act of a friend”. The worldwide retaliation to this horrible mistake, these tariffs, will be devastating to the global economy. It really is an act of war and not just against our enemies, but against our friends.
It's like the kings of the earth have, and are being gathered, for the battle of that great day.
Just as the Great Depression of the 1930's led to the rise of Hitler and World War II, don't be surprised if what is set in motion here will give rise to the 666 beast.
I'm looking at this too. I'm not that worried about it. I still think a bunch of these things have just been happening. But not in the way people thought they would be happening. So I think we're just at, or right near the end of a heptad, not at the beginning of one. I wouldn't worry about it. I find it more exciting and interesting. If we don't know exactly when it's going to end, as others do who have no hope, we know how it will end.
 
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Douggg

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Satan has been here on earth since day 1 iirc and his devils have piled up since
I don't disagree. He is also permitted to roam the universe. But when he is cast down to the earth in Revelation 12:7-9 for that final time, times, half time period, he will no longer be free to roam the universe.

If you go to Ezekiel 28:16-19, it explains what is going to happen.


16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

What is going to happen is that the false prophet is going to have a statue image made of the beast king and placed on the temple mount. The great tribulation begins at that point. 1335 days before Jesus returns.


Shorty thereafter, a couple of months, Satan will be cast down to the ground (Ezekiel 28:16). Satan will then indwell the statue image make it appear to come alive and speak. Anyone who refuses to bow down to the statue image will be killed.

That goes on for the time, times, half time.

The day that Jesus returns, the statue image will be bust into flames (Ezekiel 28:18). And turned to ashes (Ezekiel 28:18). Exposing Satan there on the temple mount for everyone to see. People who will have been worshiping the statue image will be dumbfounded (Ezekiel 28:19).


Revelation 19, small size.jpg
 
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ombowstring1

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I know. What's happening yesterday and today is having an impact on the whole world. If Satan, the Antichrist, wanted to take over the world, he'd start by taking over the most powerful man, and the most influential nation on earth. It wouldn't work if he just then entered into the President of Vietnam.

I wrote a note on another forum a couple weeks ago showing who the Stern Faced King was. How he could be identified by his actions in the lower verses of Daniel 11, as he sought to divide the land for a price, for a profit. I got deleted within four hours. 80% of Evangelical Christians voted for him. Lol.



It's like the kings of the earth have, and are being gathered, for the battle of that great day.

I'm looking at this too. I'm not that worried about it. I still think a bunch of these things have just been happening. But not in the way people thought they would be happening. So I think we're just at, or right near the end of a heptad, not at the beginning of one. I wouldn't worry about it. I find it more exciting and interesting. If we don't know exactly when it's going to end, as others do who have no hope, we know how it will end.
Well, we know to look for these things definitely -

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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I don't disagree. He is also permitted to roam the universe. But when he is cast down to the earth in Revelation 12:7-9 for that final time, times, half time period, he will no longer be free to roam the universe.
Interesting take. Not so sure Satan leaves this planet though. In fact his existence here is strange to begin with, being unseen and all. Perhaps it's a dimensional thing. And maybe we also in some way, exist in dimensions unseen, such as described in Eph. 2:6
If you go to Ezekiel 28:16-19, it explains what is going to happen.
There are bits and pieces of said forthcoming event sprinkled into the O.T. What they mean exactly remains cloudy for the moment, but it does tend to get progressively clearer over time:

Isaiah 27:1

In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Isaiah packs a lot of allegorical punch via associations in the above. As we can also see here:

Ezekiel 29:3-4
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

The prophets opened up the understanding that leviathan, the dragon, the great dragon, the serpent, the great dragon and even Pharaoh(s) are all word associations to SATAN. So we can take that information and dig down ever further, and find for example that the dragon was cut to pieces and fed to PEOPLE:

Psalm 74:13-14
Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.


We also know that the sea and waters are association terms for PEOPLE from Rev. 17:15 and that we collectively live in the wilderness here.

All of these are great avenues of studies for the unseen adversaries that ALL PEOPLE wrestle with. Not even knowing it. Which makes it all a bit strange.
What is going to happen is that the false prophet is going to have a statue image made of the beast king and placed on the temple mount. The great tribulation begins at that point. 1335 days before Jesus returns.
Yeah, well, the above is where most people fall off the cliff on the subject. There will be no person, no man as "thee antiChrist." The antiChrist is Satan. We don't need some guy to be Satan when we all have our own little package of the adversary already installed in our own flesh. Thinking it's some other guy is just another distraction put forth from our adversary.

Scriptures tell us that the beast, the dragon and the false prophet are all SPIRITS OF DEVILS.

There is no need to make any of these characters people, although their words and works are and will be played out in everyone.

God calls us all out of Babylon, and has from the beginning in various ways.

How far we come out in this present life will vary. I believe we all keep one foot in the grave, regardless
 
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ombowstring1

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Interesting take. Not so sure Satan leaves this planet though. In fact his existence here is strange to begin with, being unseen and all. Perhaps it's a dimensional thing. And maybe we also in some way, exist in dimensions unseen, such as described in Eph. 2:6

There are bits and pieces of said forthcoming event sprinkled into the O.T. What they mean exactly remains cloudy for the moment, but it does tend to get progressively clearer over time:

Isaiah 27:1

In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Isaiah packs a lot of allegorical punch via associations in the above. As we can also see here:

Ezekiel 29:3-4
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

The prophets opened up the understanding that leviathan, the dragon, the great dragon, the serpent, the great dragon and even Pharaoh(s) are all word associations to SATAN. So we can take that information and dig down ever further, and find for example that the dragon was cut to pieces and fed to PEOPLE:

Psalm 74:13-14
Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.


We also know that the sea and waters are association terms for PEOPLE from Rev. 17:15 and that we collectively live in the wilderness here.

All of these are great avenues of studies for the unseen adversaries that ALL PEOPLE wrestle with. Not even knowing it. Which makes it all a bit strange.

Yeah, well, the above is where most people fall off the cliff on the subject. There will be no person, no man as "thee antiChrist." The antiChrist is Satan. We don't need some guy to be Satan when we all have our own little package of the adversary already installed in our own flesh. Thinking it's some other guy is just another distraction put forth from our adversary.

Scriptures tell us that the beast, the dragon and the false prophet are all SPIRITS OF DEVILS.

There is no need to make any of these characters people, although their words and works are and will be played out in everyone.

God calls us all out of Babylon, and has from the beginning in various ways.

How far we come out in this present life will vary. I believe we all keep one foot in the grave, regardless
Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Satan will be loosed on earth again after the millenium. And then be cast into the lake of fire for eternity.
 
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