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Post-Trib Only The Last Day
- Thread starter CuriousWes
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11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
From "Wars of the Jews" by Flavius Josephus
"Book 1, Chapter 1
CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN YEARS.
FROM THE TAKING OF JERUSALEM BY ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES, TO THE DEATH OF HEROD THE GREAT.
HOW THE CITY JERUSALEM WAS TAKEN, AND THE TEMPLE PILLAGED [BY ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES]. AS ALSO CONCERNING THE ACTIONS OF THE MACCABEES, MATTHIAS AND JUDAS; AND CONCERNING THE DEATH OF JUDAS.
1. AT the same time that Antiochus, who was called Epiphanes, had a quarrel with the sixth Ptolemy about his right to the whole country of Syria, a great sedition fell among the men of power in Judea, and they had a contention about obtaining the government; while each of those that were of dignity could not endure to be subject to their equals. However, Onias, one of the high priests, got the better, and cast the sons of Tobias out of the city; who fled to Antiochus, and besought him to make use of them for his leaders, and to make an expedition into Judea. The king being thereto disposed beforehand, complied with them, and came upon the Jews with a great army, and took their city by force, and slew a great multitude of those that favored Ptolemy, and sent out his soldiers to plunder them without mercy. He also spoiled the temple, and put a stop to the constant practice of offering a daily sacrifice of expiation for three years and six months."
Joh 10:22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.
(This is a reference to Hanukkah.)
Because the Jews of Jesus time celebrated Hanukkah every year, they were very well aware of how Antiochus Epiphanes had fulfilled the "abomination of desolation" found in the Book of Daniel.
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To me the Day of the Lord is the Last day of this world being in the state it is now in... Our current state began when our ancestors obtained the knowledge of good and evil.. In this time period we have been faulty human beings living under the influence ( restrained ) of satan in this world.. During the 1000 year kingdom where we shall rule with Jesus on earth, satan will be cast into the bottomless pit and will be bound in chains.. So during this 1000 years satanic influence and control on earth will be eliminated.. Jesus shall rule the earth for 1000 years.
The Saints will experience their resurrection / rapture transformation on the Day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ to earth.. This is the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20.. We shall them be ruling the world with Jesus.. There will be normal people who will be ruled by us of the nations that survive the wrath of God on the Day of the LORD..
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Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
Luk 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(Almost all scholars agree that the first part of this verse refers to 70 AD. The verse that follows in Luke 21:25 is about the future Second Coming of Christ.)
Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
Mat 24:16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Because we have the same warning to flee from Judea in both passages, we know that Matthew 24:15 was a reference to the events of 167 BC, when Antiochus Epiphanes attacked the city of Jerusalem and stopped the temple sacrifices. Daniel had predicted the events before they happened, in the Book of Daniel, and called it the "abomination of desolation". Christ was telling the Jews of His time, who celebrated Hanukkah every year (John 10:22), that something similar would happen during the time of the temple's destruction.
During 66 AD the Romans under the command of Cestius Gallus surrounded the city of Jerusalem, but then left for some unknown reason. The Jewish forces killed thousands of Roman soldiers during the retreat. The early Christians heeded the warning of Christ and left the city before the final siege of 70 AD.
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You are right vinsight. But it's looking to me like both the 1260 and 1290 are running together, they are just offset in their start time by 30 days. They'll each share the same end point at the 7th trumpet.
Sorry, the AofD had zero to do with AofE, he was just a punk. The "Jews of Jesus' time" didn't even know WHO Jesus was. I wouldn't worry about their assessment of the AofD situation.
The AofD happened 1290 days before the sun will be "darkened" and the moon will not give her light. We can get a lock fit verification on it now. The 1290 days are just another answer that is offered to the question: "how long will it be 'till the end of these wonders"? It will be 1260 days. AND from the taking away of the "daily" until the AofD is set up, it will be 1290 days (untill the end of these wonders).
And immediately AFTER the end of these wonders, the sun will be "darkened" and the moon will not give it's light.
DS/AofD<-----1290days----->SUN/MOON
The taking away of the "daily" AND the AofD standing where it ought not to be must be right in there, right around the start of the 42 months of Revelation 13. If this really did just happen in 2015 then we should be expecting some inbound empirical very soon now. None of the prepackaged theologies are going to be able to address this situation. One must use their own neurotransmitters for this one.
I would zero in on Revelation 8 where we see the casting down of the censer, which should be the "taking away" of our end time "daily". Some have said that the word "sacrifice" was inserted into Daniel 12 by the translators. I understand that it is also referred to as the "continual" so I have a hunch that it's a much bigger deal than a simple sacrifice in any earthly temple somewhere.
This is related to the thing that Paul was talking about where the earthly temple was just a copy and shadow of the real one in Heaven. So we should know then and understand that if there is a table of shewbread put in the earthly temple, then there must be one in Heaven's Temple too. And so the same thing with all of the other features in the Temple including the alter of burnt offerings AND especially the alter of incense.
The taking away of the "daily" that we are talking about here can't be an animal sacrifice in either of the Temples, here's why. Remember that Daniel called it the "daily" or the "continual". This service was performed evenings and mornings, twice a day and every day at the alter of incense, even BEFORE the earthly Temple was built by Moses.
The alter of incense was used for corporate atonement (Leviticus 4), or the for sins of the whole camp. Unlike the alter of burnt offerings which was used for individual atonement. Right now it's likely graduated to the sins of the whole world. Notice also that the censer is used at the alter of incense and it is this component that is "cast" down in Revelation 8 that precedes the Trumpets. No more censer, no more "daily" service.
I believe that this taking away of the "daily" is a huge event that will effect the whole planet, all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. This began with our High Priest stepping into harms way on the very day that Adam sinned 6000 years ago. He has been standing in the way for 6000 years, in between the human race and the inevitable Wrath of God. So if this is correct, our Restrainer has been holding back much more that just the man of sin, He has been holding back the end of this world for 6000 years. Aaron, and all the high priests in the earthly temples, were only a copy and shadow imitating the real "daily" that has been ongoing in Heaven's Temple, the True Tent, even before the Temple plans had been given to Moses in 1437 BC.
So the "continual" is taken away in the place of HIS sanctuary.
"And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar,
and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Tanakh 1917:
Yea, it magnified itself, even to the prince of the host;
and from him the continual burnt-offering was taken away,
and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Exodus 30:
"You shall make an altar to burn incense on; you shall make it of acacia wood. A cubit shall be its length and a cubit its width-- it shall be square-- and two cubits shall be its height.
"Aaron shall burn on it sweet incense every morning; when he tends the lamps, he shall burn incense on it. And when Aaron lights the lamps at twilight, he shall burn incense on it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations.
"Aaron shall burn on it sweet incense every morning; when he tends the lamps, he shall burn incense on it. And when Aaron lights the lamps at twilight, he shall burn incense on it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations. You shall not offer strange incense on it, or a burnt offering, or a grain offering; nor shall you pour a drink offering on it.
But I and every man is a liar.
So cave at emptor.
And Peaceful Sabbath.
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That is correct.
When Jesus spoke Luke 21:20-21, He was sitting INSIDE the Temple during the daytime surrounded by people in an area called the Women's Court. Rich people, poor widows, all of his disciples and most certainly the Scribes and the Pharisees who followed Him everywhere.
When Jesus spoke Matthew 24:15-16, He was 25 minutes away from the Temple, down the Kidron Valley and up on the Mount called Olivet. It was evening. There were no rich people. There were no poor widows. There were no Scribes or Pharisees there. Only four of His Disciples came to Him in private.
"As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”
Here is a view from the temple mount, looking across the Kidron Valley and over at the mount of Olives.
Notice the white van in the road down below as a reference. Looks like a bit of a hike from the temple area to the place of the Olivet Discourse. Here you are looking at the difference in distance from Luke 21:20-21 to Matthew 24:15-16.
"And every day he was teaching in the temple,
but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
But at night He went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
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That is correct.
When Jesus spoke Luke 21:20-21, He was sitting INSIDE the Temple during the daytime surrounded by people in an area called the Women's Court. Rich people, poor widows, all of his disciples and most certainly the Scribes and the Pharisees who followed Him everywhere.
When Jesus spoke Matthew 24:15-16, He was 25 minutes away from the Temple, down the Kidron Valley and up on the Mount called Olivet. It was evening. There were no rich people. There were no poor widows. There were no Scribes or Pharisees there. Only four of His Disciples came to Him in private.
"As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”Here is a view from the temple mount, looking across the Kidron Valley and over at the mount of Olives.
Notice the white van in the road down below as a reference. Looks like a bit of a hike from the temple area to the place of the Olivet Discourse. Here you are looking at the difference in distance from Luke 21:20-21 to Matthew 24:15-16.
"And every day he was teaching in the temple,But at night He went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
Really...
Then Christ must have repeated Himself as revealed by a comparison of the Gospels found below.
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in the NKJV.)
Luk 21:5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,
Luk 21:6 "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."
(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )
Luk 21:7 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"
(Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")
( Mar 13:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,
Mar 13:4 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?")
Luk 21:8 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.
(Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )
Luk 21:9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."
(Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.)
Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution
Luk 21:10 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
(Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )
Luk 21:11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
(Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )
Luk 21:12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.
(Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)
Luk 21:13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.
Luk 21:14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
Luk 21:15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.
Luk 21:16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.
Luk 21:17 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.
(Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )
Luk 21:18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost.
Luk 21:19 By your patience possess your souls.
(Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.)
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
(Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
(Mat 24:16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)
Luk 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
(Mat 24:19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )
Luk 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
(Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.)
Luk 21:26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luk 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.)
Luk 21:28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
(Mat 24:33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
Luk 21:29 Then He spoke to them a parable: "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees.
(Mat 24:32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. )
Luk 21:30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near.
Luk 21:31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
Luk 21:32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.
(Mat 24:34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.)
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Watch Yourselves
Luk 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
Luk 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
Luk 21:37 And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, but at night He went out and stayed on the mountain called Olivet.
Luk 21:38 Then early in the morning all the people came to Him in the temple to hear Him.
You are trying to claim that Luke 21:38 goes at the beginning of the passage to make your doctrine work.
However, the text reveals that He was teaching in the temple during the daytime, before going out to stay at the Mount of Olives the following night.
Then the next day "all the people" came to hear Him in the temple.
The earlier discourse was not given to "all the people".
It was given to four of His closest disciples.
Mar 13:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,
The same question... "...when will these things be?" is found in all three Gospel accounts.
This parallel comparison given above of the different Gospel accounts proves that they are speaking of the same Olivet Discourse.
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I think we shouldn't make this too complicated. The last day is exactly what it says; the last day. Meaning, there are no more days after that day, as described in Revelation 22. No more rising and setting of the sun. No more nighttime. Just daytime, forever and ever.
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
On the last day, everyone is resurrected and judged. This is the great day of the Lord, when sin and death are destroyed and God lives with his people forever and ever. This is the main event. Our blessed hope. The culmination of God's plan. The last day.
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Check the links below.
Daniel's Prophecy of Antiochus Epiphanes
Daniel 11 - Prophecy Fulfilled! - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy
Sometimes it is very difficult to know where topics change in scripture.
Others are more clear, like Luke 21:24-25.
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