Post-Trib Only The Last Day

CuriousWes

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I want to hear other people's thoughts on the last day when Jesus said that He would raise up those who believe in Him. John 6:39-40

We know that the resurrection, and our gathering to Him, happens on the day of the Lord based on 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 so that tells me that the last day is synonymous with the day of the Lord, when we are resurrected (or changed). What I'd like to discuss is what the day of the Lord is the last day of, in other words, why is the day of the Lord referred to as the last day? The last day of what?

I have two thoughts on this and I think that both are possible meanings and applicable. Both have to do with the day of the Lord being a day of demarcation.
  1. The day of the Lord is the day when the earth is no longer a part of Satan's domain. His kingdom, and influence over earth, is destroyed at the return of Christ and the earth comes under the everlasting dominion of Jesus. In this sense, the last day refers to the last day of Satan's ~6000 year rule over the earth. It is brought to an end on the day of the Lord.
  2. The day of the Lord is synonymous with Christ's 1000 year rule. For those who subscribe to the Millennial Day Theory then the last day (1000 years) begins when Christ returns which is when the resurrection occurs. So the resurrection would occur on the beginning of the last day (1000 years) when Christ returns on the day of the Lord.
Any other thoughts as to what Jesus meant by the last day for the resurrection?
 
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BABerean2

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Any other thoughts as to what Jesus meant by the last day for the resurrection?

Rev 10:6  And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 
Rev 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 


Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (How long is "forever"?)

Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Look at the judgment and resurrection of the dead in John 5:27-30.)


2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 
(What happens to the earth on the "day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief". What does the text say?)

2Pe 3:11  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 
2Pe 3:12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 
2Pe 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 

I do not know about anyone else, but I am like Peter.

I am looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.

I am looking for an eternal state that lasts "forever".

How many days come after the last day?

If we would quit trying to force the rest of scripture to fit the symbolic language of Revelation chapter 20, we could avoid a great deal of confusion.

.

.
 
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CuriousWes

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Rev 10:6  And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 
Rev 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 


Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (How long is "forever"?)

Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Look at the judgment and resurrection of the dead in John 5:27-30.)


2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 
(What happens to the earth on the "day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief". What does the text say?)

2Pe 3:11  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 
2Pe 3:12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 
2Pe 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 

I do not know about anyone else, but I am like Peter.

I am looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.

I am looking for an eternal state that lasts "forever".

How many days come after the last day?

If we would quit trying to force the rest of scripture to fit the symbolic language of Revelation chapter 20, we could avoid a great deal of confusion.

.

.
I take it you're amillennial?
 
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BABerean2

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I take it you're amillennial?

That word amillennial means "no millennium" which is not really what I believe.

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

Would we think the verse below refers to two men made of wood and metal?

Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 

Do we think Satan is bound with a chain made of steel in Revelation chapter 20 or is it made of the blood of Christ?

Mat_12:29  Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


Psa 50:10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

In the verse above the word "thousand" is used in a symbolic manner.

Nobody can deny that Revelation chapter 20 contains symbolic language.
However, some still insist that the word "thousand" must be literal because it is used more than one time in the passage.
The word "lamb" is used many times in the Book of Revelation and we never insist that it refers to a literal animal.


The other problem with the passage is the fact that "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
Christ described the resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30.
How many is "all"?
Most try to ignore Revelation 11:18, because it destroys their doctrine.
That one verse proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


There are two types of resurrection in John chapter 5.
The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is found in John 5:24. It is the spiritual resurrection from the dead.
The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is in John 5:27-30 and is of the body.
Who wrote the Book of John and the Book of Revelation?


If we understand the word "thousand" to represent the "Church Age" in Revelation chapter 20, we do not have to ignore the fact that Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth in 2 Peter 3:10. We do not have to ignore Revelation 11:18. We do not have to ignore John chapter 5. We do not have to ignore "the last day" in John 6.

Unfortunately, many interpret the New Testament through a "literal" interpretation of the symbolic chapter of Revelation chapter 20, instead of interpreting the chapter through what we find in the rest of the New Testament.

It is no wonder that Revelation chapter 20 has caused tremendous confusion.

If Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief", and He comes as a thief in Revelation 16:15-16, then I am looking for the same thing.

Either Peter is wrong or the Premill doctrine is wrong.

.
 
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CuriousWes

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That word amillennial means "no millennium" which is not really what I believe.

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

Would we think the verse below refers to two men made of wood and metal?

Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 

Do we think Satan is bound with a chain made of steel in Revelation chapter 20 or is it made of the blood of Christ?

Mat_12:29  Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


Psa 50:10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

In the verse above the word "thousand" is used in a symbolic manner.

Nobody can deny that Revelation chapter 20 contains symbolic language.
However, some still insist that the word "thousand" must be literal because it is used more than one time in the passage.
The word "lamb" is used many times in the Book of Revelation and we never insist that it refers to a literal animal.


The other problem with the passage is the fact that "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
Christ described the resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30.
How many is "all"?
Most try to ignore Revelation 11:18, because it destroys their doctrine.
That one verse proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


There are two types of resurrection in John chapter 5.
The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is found in John 5:24. It is the spiritual resurrection from the dead.
The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is in John 5:27-30 and is of the body.
Who wrote the Book of John and the Book of Revelation?


If we understand the word "thousand" to represent the "Church Age" in Revelation chapter 20, we do not have to ignore the fact that Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth in 2 Peter 3:10. We do not have to ignore Revelation 11:18. We do not have to ignore John chapter 5. We do not have to ignore "the last day" in John 6.

Unfortunately, many interpret the New Testament through a "literal" interpretation of the symbolic chapter of Revelation chapter 20, instead of interpreting the chapter through what we find in the rest of the New Testament.

It is no wonder that Revelation chapter 20 has caused tremendous confusion.

If Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief", and He comes as a thief in Revelation 16:15-16, then I am looking for the same thing.

Either Peter is wrong or the Premill doctrine is wrong.

.
If you're not amillennial then please describe your millennial reign of Christ.
 
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RC1970

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Well, for those who don't understand, the curse is revealed in Genesis 3:14-24. Basically, it is all of the bad stuff we have to put up with everyday including our sin nature.

The end of the curse will come on the last day when Jesus returns and completes His kingdom. This is what is spoken of in Revelation 22. The curse will be lifted and everything will be as it should be.

Everything between these two parts of Scripture deals with God's plan to get us to "the last day".
 
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CuriousWes

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That word amillennial means "no millennium" which is not really what I believe.

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

Would we think the verse below refers to two men made of wood and metal?

Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 

Do we think Satan is bound with a chain made of steel in Revelation chapter 20 or is it made of the blood of Christ?

Mat_12:29  Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


Psa 50:10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

In the verse above the word "thousand" is used in a symbolic manner.

Nobody can deny that Revelation chapter 20 contains symbolic language.
However, some still insist that the word "thousand" must be literal because it is used more than one time in the passage.
The word "lamb" is used many times in the Book of Revelation and we never insist that it refers to a literal animal.


The other problem with the passage is the fact that "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
Christ described the resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30.
How many is "all"?
Most try to ignore Revelation 11:18, because it destroys their doctrine.
That one verse proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


There are two types of resurrection in John chapter 5.
The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is found in John 5:24. It is the spiritual resurrection from the dead.
The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is in John 5:27-30 and is of the body.
Who wrote the Book of John and the Book of Revelation?


If we understand the word "thousand" to represent the "Church Age" in Revelation chapter 20, we do not have to ignore the fact that Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth in 2 Peter 3:10. We do not have to ignore Revelation 11:18. We do not have to ignore John chapter 5. We do not have to ignore "the last day" in John 6.

Unfortunately, many interpret the New Testament through a "literal" interpretation of the symbolic chapter of Revelation chapter 20, instead of interpreting the chapter through what we find in the rest of the New Testament.

It is no wonder that Revelation chapter 20 has caused tremendous confusion.

If Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief", and He comes as a thief in Revelation 16:15-16, then I am looking for the same thing.

Either Peter is wrong or the Premill doctrine is wrong.

.
When "the day of the Lord" is understood to be 1000 years long, there are no contradictions with scripture.

Just because everyone is judged at the return of Christ doesn't mean that everyone is resurrected at that time. How else are you going to determine who belongs to Christ and who does not unless you judge them? There is quite clearly a time span between the resurrection of the righteous at Christ's return and the resurrection of everyone else at the end.

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. Revelation 20:5

If Jesus returns on the day of the Lord and the day of the Lord lasts for 1000 years, then there is no issue with the earth melting and the New Heavens and New Earth coming at the end of the 1000 year reign. It never says that the earth is melted on the day of Christ's return, only during the day of the Lord (1000 years) which only makes sense if it happens at the end of His millennial reign.

Were forty years literal?
Were three days and three nights literal?
Are the 1260 days going to be literal? The 1290? The 1335?
How long can we expect the 1000 years to last?

I don't see any scriptural inconsistencies with Christ returning and reigning for 1000 years.
 
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BABerean2

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If Jesus returns on the day of the Lord and the day of the Lord lasts for 1000 years, then there is no issue with the earth melting and the New Heavens and New Earth coming at the end of the 1000 year reign. It never says that the earth is melted on the day of Christ's return

2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 

.
 
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CuriousWes

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2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 

.
We agree that He's coming back to destroy the wicked from the earth. I don't see how that negates the possibility of a 1000 year reign of Christ.
 
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BABerean2

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We agree that He's coming back to destroy the wicked from the earth. I don't see how that negates the possibility of a 1000 year reign of Christ.

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 

Did you notice the words "In flaming fire" found in the passage above?

When Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God comes "In flaming fire", what kind of fire does that bring to mind?

1. a birthday cake candle?

2. a blowtorch?

3. a volcano?

4. a Hydrogen Bomb?

5. an earth melting event?

My vote is number 5.

What do you think?

Where in Revelation chapter 20 do we find the fire coming down from heaven?


.
 
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CuriousWes

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2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 

Did you notice the words "In flaming fire" found in the passage above?

When Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God comes "In flaming fire", what kind of fire does that bring to mind?

1. a birthday cake candle?

2. a blowtorch?

3. a volcano?

4. a Hydrogen Bomb?

5. an earth melting event?

My vote is number 5.

What do you think?

Where in Revelation chapter 20 do we find the fire coming down from heaven?


.
Oh, a condescending reply. I either see it your way or I'm an idiot that needs to be made fun of. Got it. Tells me all I need to know.

There are other ways to view that passage but I don't see any point in attempting to pursue a discussion about it. Seems everyone's more interested in a one-way force feeding. I think its time for me to move on from this site.

Mods: feel free to delete this topic.
 
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com7fy8

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I want to hear other people's thoughts on the last day when Jesus said that He would raise up those who believe in Him. John 6:39-40
Well, Paul says the dead in Jesus will rise first, then we who remain will be raised up. And we see at the end of the great tribulation, that the "elect" will be gathered to Jesus > Matthew 24:29-31. They will be gathered "from one end of heaven to the other".

I consider that this means we will be raptured, so then we are in heaven and then gathered to Jesus. This will be right at the end of the great tribulation. I would say Jesus, by "at the last day", means at that time. We could say it is the last day of the tribulation, and we could say it is at the last day, meaning at the beginning of the millennium which is a thousand-day day. But I can see Jesus simply means it will be our last day to be on this earth.
 
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BABerean2

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Oh, a condescending reply. I either see it your way or I'm an idiot that needs to be made fun of. Got it. Tells me all I need to know.

There are other ways to view that passage but I don't see any point in attempting to pursue a discussion about it. Seems everyone's more interested in a one-way force feeding. I think its time for me to move on from this site.

Mods: feel free to delete this topic.

When dealing with a difference of opinion over interpretation, the first "red-flag" is often an attempt to ignore a verse that destroys a person's doctrine.

The "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, is a problem for the Pre-mill doctrine.

Peter looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter chapter 3, is another problem for the Pre-mill doctrine.

You had stated earlier in our discussion today....

" It never says that the earth is melted on the day of Christ's return"


When presented with 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, you seemed to ignore the reference to "In flaming fire". I understand why, because it is a problem for the Pre-mill doctrine.

Another "red-flag" is that when faced with scripture which proves our doctrine is not correct, it is often easier to break off the conversation or make a personal attack on those who disagree with us.

No harm was intended by my last post.
I did not and would not use the word "idiot" or make fun of you personally.
However, the post was intended to get you to acknowledge the fact that the Apostle Paul clearly said Christ will return "In flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:8.


.
 
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Dave Watchman

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I want to hear other people's thoughts on the last day when Jesus said that He would raise up those who believe in Him. John 6:39-40

We know that the resurrection, and our gathering to Him, happens on the day of the Lord based on 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 so that tells me that the last day is synonymous with the day of the Lord, when we are resurrected (or changed). What I'd like to discuss is what the day of the Lord is the last day of, in other words, why is the day of the Lord referred to as the last day? The last day of what?

I have two thoughts on this and I think that both are possible meanings and applicable. Both have to do with the day of the Lord being a day of demarcation.
  1. The day of the Lord is the day when the earth is no longer a part of Satan's domain. His kingdom, and influence over earth, is destroyed at the return of Christ and the earth comes under the everlasting dominion of Jesus. In this sense, the last day refers to the last day of Satan's ~6000 year rule over the earth. It is brought to an end on the day of the Lord.
  2. The day of the Lord is synonymous with Christ's 1000 year rule. For those who subscribe to the Millennial Day Theory then the last day (1000 years) begins when Christ returns which is when the resurrection occurs. So the resurrection would occur on the beginning of the last day (1000 years) when Christ returns on the day of the Lord.

Any other thoughts as to what Jesus meant by the last day for the resurrection?

I wouldn't worry about the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is just whenever He intervenes in the affairs of mankind. So I don't think that it's the last day of the Day of the Lord. And neither will the rest of the dead when they march up across the broad plain of the Earth after the thousand years are finished.

The Last Day is the LAST DAY. You're right, it's the ultimate line of demarcation. It's the mystery of God fulfilled. Think about it like this, there will be at a minimum, 365,242 days on Earth after the "Last Day" before the curse has ended and the "last enemy" is destroyed..

But on the day after the "Last Day", if anyone is not translated as one of the Sons of God, it means that they have missed the boat. All the tribes of the earth will mourn. If they miss the "Last Day" resurrection of the Just, there's not going to be another chance at salvation. That's why it's called the last day. All aboard.

And I'm sorry for the Amils, The 365,242 days are for real. There's no such thing as symbolic "time" in the Script.

You'll see. :)

365,242 days
Result: 365,242 days

It is 365,242 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date

Or 1000 years excluding the end date

Alternative time units
365,242 days can be converted to one of these units:

  • 31,556,908,800 seconds
  • 525,948,480 minutes
  • 8,765,808 hours
  • 365,242 days
  • 52,177 weeks and 3 days
  • 100,066.30% of a common year (365 days)
 
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BABerean2

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And I'm sorry for the Amils, The 365,242 days are for real. There's no such thing as symbolic "time" in the Script.

Do you think the Book of Revelation is in perfect chronological order?

How do you explain "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18?

Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 
(There are two types of resurrection in John 5:24-30. The first is spiritual and the second is of the body at the judgment of the dead.)


Mat 12:39  But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 

Mat 12:40  For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 

Mat 12:41  The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. 

Mat 12:42  The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here. 

.
 
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