The Last Day

[yeshuasavedme]

Proving my point... you can't find chapter and verse for it, otherwise you'd have cited it.

I thought you knew where those citings were.....do you really, really, not know?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes, I can, and so could you if you had a mind to discover the treasures of wisdom in the Word of God.

The Living Oracles are the Schoolmaster which teach us the doctrine of the millennial week, for one, and the prophets confirm and add to the doctrine.


Otherwise, the ancient writings which are included as Scripture in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church have more instruction on that Day.

The end of the seven thousand year week of days is typed in that Great Day, the Eighth Day, which is the New Beginning rehearsed on the eighth day after Tabernacles begins. For that reason of Adam no longer multiplying by the seed in his loins, circumcision was given as a sign to wear in the flesh of all male seed of Abraham, from Isaac, on, on the eighth day after birth signifying the cutting off of the Adam on the eighth millennial day, from multiplying.

Also, the sign of the sun being made as a Menorrah and as a tabernacle where the Glory of God dwells -yes, Scripture says so, in the Hebrew and in the Greek translation and in the Latin- and set in the heavens to rule over the day and night on the fourth day of creation week is a sign to type Christ, the Light and Glory seen, of the Father, come in flesh of a tabernacle made for His dwelling on the fourth millennial day.

Also, in Ezekiel's record the river coming out from the threshold of the temple measured by the angel becomes so wide after the four thousand cubits [each standing for the millennial days] that it is so wide one cannot cross over, signifying the Living Water/the Word of God, coming in flesh of second man after four thousand years, with the "Grace" released for man as the Word made flesh.
There is much more, but a student of the Word would search to discover the wisdom God has in it.

The oracle of the Feast of Tabernacles is the last harvest, and the sign of it is the harvest from earth of sons of God adopted out of Adam and into the the Glory.
The oracle of the seventh day of Tabernacles followed by "that Great Day, that Eighth Day of the New Beginning" signs the beginning of the eighth millennium.

It will be rehearsed in the millennial reign for the entire thousand years, until it is fulfilled to the jot and tittle of it.


The circumcision of Isaac on the eighth day and for all born of Abraham in the eighth day after Isaac was born, is the sign they must wear in their flesh until it is fulfilled in the cutting off of the Adam seed multiplying, in the eighth day, that Great Day of the New Beginning.

The sign of the sun being made and set in the heavens on day 4 to be the governor of the light brought into being on day 1 of creation week of normal 24 hour days [actually, 18 part days, as God counts the days] is a sign of the Son of God, who is the Light and the Glory of the unseen YHWH , and who will be Jerusalem's Sun in the millennial reign, shining with such Glory over Israel that they will not have night there for the thousand years, for His Glory shining there will outshine the sun, which sun types His New Man body of creation made for Christ to come in flesh of, on the fourth day of creation millennial days as the Light Seen, of the Unseen YHWH.



The sign of the river measured by thousand cubits in Ezekiel 47 types the River of Life/Christ the Word, who comes out of the Temple in heaven and who was to come in flesh and is come in the fourth millennial day -at the end of it, actually.

And there are many more in the oracles and the prophets, like the oracle of the 120 years of the Adam spirit in the Adam flesh on earth before the Adam is cut off forever, spoken by YHWH and recorded in Genesis 6 -for the Adam is also flesh, says YHWH, yet his days shall be 120 years.

The wisdom of the 120 years is in fact 120 Jubilee years, which is 6,000 normal years, and after that, from then, the Adam will no longer stand before YHWH. The Adam spirit will be cut off from multiplying, forever, which correlates with the sign of circumcision.

and there are more, and more, and more.....for him who seeks to know and understand the Oracles of God.

 

[coraline]

I thought you knew where those citings were.....do you really, really, not know?

I thought you knew!
Did you say you studied all systems of eschatology and came to the conclusion that Jesus reigning on earth in a temporary kingdom is God's word?

Or did you only "study" one belief total?

Dispensationalists are misguided on Ezekiel 40-48 regarding the "new order of things"

Somehow they think Ezekiel said there was going to be "a thousand year reign of the Messiah" somewhere in his prophecies!

Nope. Not there He was a prophet in the Babylonian exile.

Ending your interpretations on the O.T. - means to not regard history at all. And history is a reality.

The Jewish people rebelled & created Rabbinic Judaism after God destroyed their temple in AD70.

Jewish apocrypha reflects their made up story of a millennium bc they refused to believe that they were not God's chosen people any longer.

They influenced some Christians for a while until Chiliasm showed most it was a Jewish fallacy.

Modern Christian Zionists can never show where Jesus or the O.T. true prophets speak about a temporary millennium kingdom.

They seem to want to change Jesus' words of the kingdom "at hand" with the "I will reign with the Jews for a thousand years first"

And that would be right after He judged them?!!!!!!

But thankfully, dispensationalism is losing members in the last decade or so. Good to know that truth matters and not fiction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Salvation is always available, the gates are always open to this city. Look at chapter 22:

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:1-2 NASB​

Here the river of the water of life flows forth from the Temple to the nations of the world. The tree of life is there for the healing of the nations. The river of the water of life was predicted in the Tanakh in Ezekiel 47. This river comes forth from the New Jerusalem in Revelation 22:1-2; which is the church. We are to be involved in taking the water of life to the nations. What is the water of life?:

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost. Revelation 22:17 NASB​

This is a call to salvation! If the New Heavens and the New Earth are the eternal state as Dispensationalism teaches, why is the invitation to salvation still going out? The New Heaven and Earth is the New Covenant, the Church. And from the Church goes forth the water of life for the healing of the nations.
We are now living in the New Heaven and Earth. We are the New Jerusalem, which is the body of Christ. Yeshua and His Father are among us, and we need no Temple; we need none of the rituals and ceremonies of the old heaven and the old earth. We are in God's presence now and forevermore.~ Berean Bible Church

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I thought you knew!
Did you say you studied all systems of eschatology and came to the conclusion that Jesus reigning on earth in a temporary kingdom is God's word?

You are not even being credible to ask such a question.
You are planting false accusations for slander.

 

[coraline]

You are not even being credible to ask such a question.
You are planting false accusations for slander.

You shouldn't be so judgmental calling me "not credible" to avoid answering questions again.

I have stated how I studied all systems of eschatology, including modern dispensationalism., BTW.

I asked you about the same.

I didn't ask for a Christian to "judge" me.

We never do that in our church either!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

credibility is not something you bring to this discussion.
So do not twist what I said...
You high-jack threads with nonsense and non biblical fables and false accusations - false.

 

[parousia70]

I thought you knew where those citings were.....do you really, really, not know?

It's common courtesy to provide Chapter and Verse please. you even demanded it from another poster - why do you think you are exempt from providing that which you demand from others?

So far you are only offering your "speculation" about "millennial days".

Show us the chapter and verse that teaches this notion explicitly.

 

[Old Timer]

It's common courtesy to provide Chapter and Verse please. you even demanded it from another poster - why do you think you are exempt from providing that which you demand from others?

So far you are only offering your "speculation" about "millennial days".

Show us the chapter and verse that teaches this notion explicitly.

Would it be too much to ask to take your preterist views elsewhere. This thread has its basis in a future last day.

Thanks, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads to discuss AD70.

 

[coraline]

Would it be too much to ask to take your preterist views elsewhere. This thread has its basis in a future last day.

Thanks, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads to discuss AD70.

From your O.P it sounded like you asked a question about the scriptures.

 

[Old Timer]

From your O.P it sounded like you asked a question about the scriptures.

I did.

What I didn't ask for is for preterism to insert their constant obsession with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Sadly, I realize that may be asking too much though.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The oracle of the Feast of Tabernacles is the last harvest, and the sign of it is the harvest from earth of sons of God adopted out of Adam and into the the Glory.
The oracle of the seventh day of Tabernacles followed by "that Great Day, that Eighth Day of the New Beginning" signs the beginning of the eighth millennium.

It will be rehearsed in the millennial reign for the entire thousand years, until it is fulfilled to the jot and tittle of it.


The circumcision of Isaac on the eighth day and for all born of Abraham in the eighth day after Isaac was born, is the sign they must wear in their flesh until it is fulfilled in the cutting off of the Adam seed multiplying, in the eighth day, that Great Day of the New Beginning.

The sign of the sun being made and set in the heavens on day 4 to be the governor of the light brought into being on day 1 of creation week of normal 24 hour days [actually, 18 part days, as God counts the days] is a sign of the Son of God, who is the Light and the Glory of the unseen YHWH , and who will be Jerusalem's Sun in the millennial reign, shining with such Glory over Israel that they will not have night there for the thousand years, for His Glory shining there will outshine the sun, which sun types His New Man body of creation made for Christ to come in flesh of, on the fourth day of creation millennial days as the Light Seen, of the Unseen YHWH.



The sign of the river measured by thousand cubits in Ezekiel 47 types the River of Life/Christ the Word, who comes out of the Temple in heaven and who was to come in flesh and is come in the fourth millennial day -at the end of it, actually.

And there are many more in the oracles and the prophets, like the oracle of the 120 years of the Adam spirit in the Adam flesh on earth before the Adam is cut off forever, spoken by YHWH and recorded in Genesis 6 -for the Adam is also flesh, says YHWH, yet his days shall be 120 years.

The wisdom of the 120 years is in fact 120 Jubilee years, which is 6,000 normal years, and after that, from then, the Adam will no longer stand before YHWH. The Adam spirit will be cut off from multiplying, forever, which correlates with the sign of circumcision.

and there are more, and more, and more.....for him who seeks to know and understand the Oracles of God.

For if one does not learn the abc's/first principles of the Living Oracles they have no authority and no foundational understanding for teaching the Church of Christ.

What advantage does the Jew have? -Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Hbr 5:1 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles/abc's of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


The oracles are the rehearsals for the things to come, until they are all fulfilled.

Jesus said not one will pass away until they are fulfilled to the last jot and tittle of them.

So a student of God's Word will be looking into the Living Oracles for the doctrine of things that were, that are, and that are to come.

Tabernacles is to be rehearsed for the thousand year millennial Sabbath, and the Great Day after Tabernacles, that eighth day that is to come and is the New Beginning is to be rehearsed for the thousand year Sabbath for earth's Peace.

A student of God's Word will seek to know from the Word what the doctrines of the Oracles teach us, as Schoolmaster.
Doing so one learns about the doctrine of Christ in the Oracles, and all that He is and has promised to His people.
To just be born and to say one does not need the meat which is the Wisdom of the Word, is to be an infant and useless to the body of Christ. Anyone who casts away the Oracles and the prophets as the foundation of the doctrine of Christ and His promises to His own people is, I say again, worthless to the body, and is a baby needing milk to just survive.
Unfortunately, many babes who have never tasted the meat and call it useless and rotten, and they have no right to pretend to know anything about the doctrine/Message of Christ.
Yes, one can be born, but one can be stymied and stunted and ignorant and foolish and uninformed in the things of God, from His Word, and not from the foolishness of fallible men, and so they have no wisdom to impart to others and have no authority to be teachers in the Church of Christ; but they seem to need a lot of babysitting or watching, so as to pick up the damages of the destruction caused by their foolishness to the other babes who come along...who might just be ready for meat, but think milk is meat, cause they have not tasted for themselves, yet and have no idea the difference.

 

[coraline]

I did.

What I didn't ask for is for preterism to insert their constant obsession with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Sadly, I realize that may be asking too much though.

It's not an obsession though, Old Timer. It's secular history. Research it.

That's where I started. Someone quoted online "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies," from Luke 21:20 online, and told me that modern Israel was going to be attacked, a big bad anti-christ to come. I never in all my born again life ever even really "heard" of Jesus coming again- not in church, nothing, not to mention all this bad stuff that was going to destroy the world as we know it. etc etc.
I lived by and still do only concentrate on Jesus' actual coming for our sins, etc. the first time and the first time only.

Then someone comes on to post about the Jewish/Roman war in the first century.
Being a realist and college graduate I respect history and I knew instantly in my spirit that all this end time madness bad news was something like sci-fi to entertain boredom..some of these people even were to the point of mental illness with lack of reality too!

In sum, I don't envy people who spend their time on past fulfillments.

Really. They lose today.

I lost today on explaining yesterday BTW. Now I have to scramble to get my lunch ready for tomorrow, lol!

 

[Old Timer]

It's not an obsession though, Old Timer!

You're still here, it's an obsession

 

[Bible2]

coraline quoted a church in post 115:

Daniel 12:13 (NKJV) "But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

The statements of verses 1, 7, 11, and 12 tie the resurrection to the time immediately following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Not at all, for no resurrection occurred immediately following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

And this is true even though "the end" began at Jesus' first coming.

That is, the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 is referred to in Revelation 12:14. And Revelation is an unsealed book (Revelation 22:10). So the meaning of the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 was unsealed by the time that Revelation was written in the first century AD. Therefore, "the end" in Daniel 12:4,9 must be "the end" in the same sense as in Hebrews 9:26 (see also 1 Corinthians 10:11b), which shows that (in one sense) "the end" of the world had already begun at the time of Jesus' first coming and his crucifixion for our sins.

So Daniel 12:4b can be referring to many Christians, at anytime after Jesus' first coming and the writing of Revelation, going to and fro, going back and forth, between the still-unfulfilled parts of Revelation and Daniel, and these Christians increasing their knowledge of what's going to happen in our future by seeing how much these two books complement each other (cf. Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13).

Also, Daniel 12:6,8 doesn't contradict the fact that the time of the end in Daniel 12:4,9 can begin before the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 and all the other "wonders" and "things" referred to in Daniel 12:6,8 have ended. For the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 refers to only the specific time period of 3.5 literal years which would later be shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13), the detailed events of which have never been fulfilled. And Daniel 12:6 refers to the specific "wonders" that Daniel had just been told about in Daniel 11:2 to 12:3, which also include detailed events which have never been fulfilled (Daniel 11:31 to 12:3), including the church's resurrection into immortality (Daniel 12:2-3) at the time of the Antichrist's defeat (Daniel 11:45 to 12:3, Revelation 19:20 to 20:6), whereas Daniel 12:4,9 refers to a more general "time of the end" which began in the first century AD (Hebrews 9:26; 1 Corinthians 10:11b).

One part of Daniel that could have remained sealed until recently is the understanding of Daniel 12:11-12.

Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' 2nd coming will occur and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up, and if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), and if the first 6 vials will be poured out over 30 days, then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

It's on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus' 2nd coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

coraline quoted a church in post 115:

Jesus taught that the resurrection would happen on the last day:

John 6:39-40 (NKJV) "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

In John 6:39-40, like in John 12:48, for example, the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Peter 3:8, and John 8:56). John 6:39-48 and John 12:48 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but they won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Revelation 20:5).

For when Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

coraline quoted a church in post 115:

Jesus came during the last days of the age that was the Old Covenant age, the Jewish age. That age came to an end with the destruction of the temple in AD 70.

The time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a) and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

Also, while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), he didn't tell them the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future tribulation, or even at the end of the future tribulation, i.e. at his (post-tribulation) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell the apostles many other things during his ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until much later that Jesus would show the apostle John through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c) that the end of the age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).

 

[Bible2]

coraline quoted a church in post 123:

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:1-2 NASB

The waters in Revelation 22:1 which flow from God's throne in the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10 to 22:5), like the waters in Zechariah 14:8, can be both literal and at the same time symbolic of the life-giving properties of the Holy Spirit (John 7:38-39), just as, for example, the fruitless fig tree that Jesus cursed was a literal tree which at the same time symbolized fruitless, unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:19,43).

Zechariah 14:8 refers to a literal, future river, which will flow during the millennium from the literal, earthly city of Jerusalem in two directions into two literal, earthly bodies of water, the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea (Zechariah 14:8-21), which are to the west and the east of Jerusalem. For in Zechariah 14:8, the original Hebrew word (chay, H2416) translated as "living" can be translated simply as "running" (Leviticus 14:5, Leviticus 14:6b, Leviticus 14:50, Leviticus 14:51b, Leviticus 14:52, Leviticus 15:13b, Numbers 19:17b) or as "springing" (Genesis 26:19), with regard to literal, flowing water.

God still has regard for the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). Even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

coraline quoted a church in post 123:

This river comes forth from the New Jerusalem in Revelation 22:1-2; which is the church.

Revelation 21:2,9,10 means that the physical structure of the literal city of New Jerusalem is a picture of the church. Something can be literal and at the same time symbolically picture something else, like how (again) in Matthew 21:19 the fig tree was literal and at the same time its being without fruit symbolically pictured unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel being without fruit (Matthew 21:43).

Just as New Jerusalem's literal wall foundations have the names of the 12 apostles on them (Revelation 21:14), so the church's foundation is the apostles (Ephesians 2:20). And just as New Jerusalem's literal pearly gates have the names of Israel's 12 tribes on them (Revelation 21:12,21), so the church consists of Israel's 12 tribes.

For all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

-

New Jerusalem is a literal city 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), with literal pearly gates and literal streets of gold (Revelation 21:21). It's God the Father's house in the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b,4, Revelation 2:7b, Revelation 22:2,14), in which house Jesus left to prepare a place for the church (John 14:2). All those in the church, both Jews and Gentiles, have figuratively come to New Jerusalem by coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), and which only the church comes under by believing in Jesus' New Covenant death on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the very heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The church looks for Jesus' return from heaven (Philippians 3:20) and the setting up of his physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). New Jerusalem won't descend from the 3rd heaven to the earth until after a new earth (a new surface of the earth) has been created (Revelation 21:1-4), sometime after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15). The church will physically live and reign in New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5). The Father and Jesus themselves will be the only temple in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:22).

coraline quoted a church in post 123:

The New Heaven and Earth is the New Covenant, the Church.

Just as the heaven and earth which "were of old" (2 Peter 3:5-6) were the literal first "heaven" (the sky/atmosphere, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20), and the literal "earth" (the dry land) which God created in Genesis 1:7-10, and which "perished" in Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6, Genesis 6:13-21), so the heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which will perish in the future by fire instead of flood (2 Peter 3:7-12), are the earth's present atmosphere and surface. And so the new heaven and earth, which the church is still waiting for (2 Peter 3:13) -- because the new heaven and earth (Revelation 21:1) won't be made until after the never-fulfilled events of Revelation chapters 6 to 20 are over -- will be a new atmosphere and surface for the earth.

That is, the "old" heaven and earth perished at the time of Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6), which was over 1,000 years before the Old Covenant Mosaic law was established in Exodus. The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments was abolished the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). Matthew 5:18 refers to the literal heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which are going to be literally burned up in our future (2 Peter 3:7-12).


*******

coraline said in post 132:

Someone quoted online "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies," from Luke 21:20 online, and told me that modern Israel was going to be attacked, a big bad anti-christ to come.

When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he is referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31.

So Luke 21:20-23 isn't referring to 70 AD, nor (as is sometimes claimed) to the pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the future tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming to save Jerusalem (Zechariah 14), but is referring to what will happen mid-tribulation, when the Antichrist will antitypically fulfill Daniel 11:31 at the start of his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), during which 3.5 years, Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles (Revelation 11:2b), which future treading down is what Luke 21:24 is referring to.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation "stand" "in" the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will "pollute" the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Thank you yeshuasavedme. I should have said they 'are' raised bodily instead of they were raised. I was actually speaking of the future when they will be raised after the 3 1/2 days.

Oh -good to clarify..thanks..

 

[yeshuasavedme]

.
..

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

What kind of bodies do these people already in Heaven have?

They are martyred tribulation believers who are unclothed with a body since their body was slain. They are souls/persons who are not yet given their own human being flesh body back, in resurrection and regeneration of the same, to dwell in.

The rapture of the Church had already happened before the tribulation, and those souls who came to repent and believe cannot go into the wedding feast celebration clothed in their regenerated body for the Glory until the last of their number is martyred as they were, and then the LORD calls their bodies into resurrection and regeneration so as to unite them with their own bodies when He comes to set up His kingdom of God on earth. They are the gleanings of Pentecost, and when their bodies are resurrected, the first resurrection to Life is ended forever, and no more death of the righteous ever, after that.

 

[parousia70]

Would it be too much to ask to take your preterist views elsewhere. This thread has its basis in a future last day.

Thanks, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads to discuss AD70.

I have not brought up 70 ad, 135 AD, 967AD, 2016 Ad or any other date in this thread.
You must have me mistaken with someone else.

And why don't you take your preterist views elsewhere?

All Christians are preterist, we only vary by degree. You do know that, right?

 

[Old Timer]

I have not brought up 70 ad, 135 AD, 967AD, 2016 Ad or any other date in this thread.
You must have me mistaken with someone else.

And why don't you take your preterist views elsewhere?

All Christians are preterist, we only vary by degree. You do know that, right?

No, not all Christians are overly obsessed with AD70, only preterists fit that bill.

Please take it to another thread if you don't mind.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[coraline]

They are martyred tribulation believers who are unclothed with a body since their body was slain. They are souls/persons who are not yet given their own human being flesh body back, in resurrection and regeneration of the same, to dwell in.

The rapture of the Church had already happened before the tribulation, and those souls who came to repent and believe cannot go into the wedding feast celebration clothed in their regenerated body for the Glory until the last of their number is martyred as they were, and then the LORD calls their bodies into resurrection and regeneration so as to unite them with their own bodies when He comes to set up His kingdom of God on earth. They are the gleanings of Pentecost, and when their bodies are resurrected, the first resurrection to Life is ended forever, and no more death of the righteous ever, after that.

John 17,
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

Ah, who to believe !!!!!


Jesus or yeshuasavedme's "rapture" of the church?

Who do you believe, people?