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Dear Megas: It is not I who declares the whole creation shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption. I will of course continue to do so as long as Abba gives me the ability to proclaim the Glad News!
Please turn to Romans chapter 8, for the author.
Yes by being destroyed completewly and created anew!
But the creation is distinct from man in Romans 8 and you should know that! Shame on you!
Put on your specs Noli.
Shall we pursue a lesson on the scope of "whole" in English & koine?
Yes.....the whole world which chooses the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
The distinction is lost in some translations and it is an extremely important distinction. The Rich Man is suffering in a flame in Hades, yet nowhere else in Scripture is Hades associated with fire. It is associated with God's wrath.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.1 (Deut. 32:22 KJV)
These are the only two passages that have something burning in Hades. This passage from Deuteronomy is about God's anger burning against Israel for turning away from Him. God said His anger would burn to the lowest Hades. Jesus speaks of the Rich Man who clearly represents the leadership of Israel suffering a burning in Hades. The connection couldn't be more clear, yet it doesn't fit the eternal torment narrative so it just gets dismissed.
I think many miss how the ETC doctrine impugns God's character. God said the soul that sins shall die. If the punishment is Eternal Conscious Torment it would mean that God lied. The Scriptures tell us that God doesn't lie.
Big Guy: Put on your specs with your tag team other half of Noli.
The choice is not by any broken wreck of sin.
NOT!
The busticated cannot accomplish to undo their condition!
The choice is His & His alone.
Dear Megas: It is not I who declares the whole creation shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption. I will of course continue to do so as long as Abba gives me the ability to proclaim the Glad News!
Please turn to Romans chapter 8, for the author.
"For the creation was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope, because the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now."
The 2nd death & hurt
There is a strange and wonderful statement found in Rev. 2:11.
"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches; He that overcomes shall not be HURT of the second death."
It does not say that the overcomer experiences nothing of the second death, that he does not pass through it, or that its work is not wrought in his life; but the thought is that he will not be "hurt" by it.
It is possible to pass through the most terrible experience and not be hurt by it?
"And these three men Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Then Nebuchnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spoke, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they HAVE NO HURT; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God" (Dan. 3:23-25). Oh, to know that we can pass through the darkest night or the hottest fire and not be hurt by it if Jesus goes with us! How heartening and assuring to read such promises as these: "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow you: and when you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon you" (Isa. 43:2).
The word "hurt" is from the Greek ADIKEO meaning to be unjust, do wrong, injure or offend.
Armed with this understanding we may paraphrase Rev. 2:11
"He that overcomes shall not be done an injustice, wronged, injured or offended by the second death."
The great difference between the unbeliever and the child of God is that the unbeliever is taken hand and foot and "cast" into the lake of fire, fighting, kicking, screaming, cursing, and resisting all the way, while the child of God willingly and obediently walks into the fiery processings of God hand in hand with his blessed Redeemer.
And, one way or the other, ALL MEN MUST DIE UNTO SIN.
When the natural man becomes the spiritual man, the great change is described by the Holy Spirit as a passing from death unto life. Before the transistion occurred, the practical difficulty was this, how to get into harmony with the new environment of the Kingdom of God?
But no sooner do we enter into the Kingdom of God than the problem is reversed.
The question now is, how to get out of harmony with the old environment of the flesh, the world, and the devil? The moment the new CHRIST life is begun there comes a great anxiety to break with the old, for the regenerated spirit has nothing in common with the old.
The former way of life now becomes embarrassing. Because of "sin in our members" it refuses to be dismissed from our consciousness. It competes doggedly with the new nature of the Christ. And in a hundred ways the former traditions, the memories and passions of the past, the fixed associations and habits of the earlier life, now press in to draw us to walk after the flesh, complicating the new walk. The complex and bewildered soul, in fact, finds itself confronted by two contrasting faculties, the flesh and the spirit, each with urgent but yet incompatible claims. It is a dual consciousness of a double world, a world whose inhabitants are deadly enemies, and engaged in perpetual civil war!
The position is perplexing.
It is clear that no man can attempt to live both lives. No man can walk both after the flesh and after the spirit anymore than one can walk down two roads at the same time. His testimony will agree with the apostle who wrote: "For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out; for I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds I do not desire to do are what I am ever doing. Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it it is not myself that acts - but the sin (principle) which dwells within me. So I find it to be a law of my being that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands. For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self - with my new nature. But I discern in my bodily members - in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh - a different law at war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs - in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh. O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from the shackles of this body of death?" (Rom. 7:18-24, Amplified). -J. Preston Eby-
Hades is Hell.
Shaol is hell.
Gehenna is hell.
Lake of Fire is hell.
Rev. 14:11...…..
“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
2 Thess. 1:9...……..
“They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,”
Mark. 9:42-48...…….
“And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”
Matt. 25:41......
“Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.””
Matt. 8:12...….
“while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Why not start a thread on predestination then moonbeam.
The Bible teaches that man must choose God and yet God chooses salvation for us. Scripture does teach both. Man chooses Christ, and God predestines men to eternal life with Him. It is one of the hardest doctrines to grasp but We do theythey work together – only God knows.
I repeat: The Lord Jesus Christ declares to every last disciple of His.....
You did NOT choose Me.
Don't need.
What has that got to do with anyone "leaving the Lake of Fire after being saved"????
The 2nd death & hurt
There is a strange and wonderful statement found in Rev. 2:11.
"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches; He that overcomes shall not be HURT of the second death."
It does not say that the overcomer experiences nothing of the second death, that he does not pass through it, or that its work is not wrought in his life; but the thought is that he will not be "hurt" by it.
It is possible to pass through the most terrible experience and not be hurt by it?
I repeat: The Lord Jesus Christ declares to every last disciple of His.....
You did NOT choose Me.
"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
Agreed!
But where in all those words are those words that say...……..
"ALL who are judged and found guilty and cast into the Lake of Fire Will get a 2nd chance and be saved and removed from the Lake of Fire".
Our Father does not dwell in the realm of chance. His is NOT a heavenly gambling casino or lottery!
"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
Our Father does not dwell in the realm of chance. His is NOT a heavenly gambling casino or lottery!
"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
Chance = sunkuria
sunkuria =
A coincidence of circumstances.
A concurrence of events is what the word signifies, rather than chance.
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