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Absolutelyi.
I just let teh Bible speak for itself and then form my opinions from that. Eternal torment for the lost is a sad but absolute reality based on a normal reading of SCripture.
Psalm 94:1O Lord, God of vengeance,
God of vengeance, shine forth!
2 Rise up, O Judge of the earth,
Render recompense to the proud.
3 How long shall the wicked, O Lord,
How long shall the wicked exult?
4 They pour forth words, they speak arrogantly;
All who do wickedness vaunt themselves.
5 They crush Your people, O Lord,
And afflict Your heritage.
6 They slay the widow and the stranger
And murder the orphans.
7 They have said, “The Lord does not see,
Nor does the God of Jacob pay heed.”
8 Pay heed, you senseless among the people;
And when will you understand, stupid ones?
9 He who planted the ear, does He not hear?
He who formed the eye, does He not see?
10 He who chastens the nations, will He not rebuke,
Even He who teaches man knowledge?
11 The Lord knows the thoughts of man,
That they are a mere breath.
12 Blessed is the man whom You chasten, O Lord,
And whom You teach out of Your law;
13 That You may grant him relief from the days of adversity,
Until a pit is dug for the wicked.
14 For the Lord will not abandon His people,
Nor will He forsake His inheritance.
15 For judgment will again be righteous,
And all the upright in heart will follow it.
16 Who will stand up for me against evildoers?
Who will take his stand for me against those who do wickedness?
17 If the Lord had not been my help,
My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence.
18 If I should say, “My foot has slipped,”
Your lovingkindness, O Lord, will hold me up.
19 When my anxious thoughts multiply within me,
Your consolations delight my soul.
20 Can a throne of destruction be allied with You,
One which devises mischief by decree?
21 They band themselves together against the life of the righteous
And condemn the innocent to death.
22 But the Lord has been my stronghold,
And my God the rock of my refuge.
23 He has brought back their wickedness upon them
And will destroy them in their evil;
The Lord our God will destroy them.
And there are far more native speakers other than Origen who say aionios is eternal or neverending!
And again! I have repeatedly told you aionios can be a limited duration if modifed.
All the examples you gave on your other site are passages that describe limited durations!
It is you and your other fellows that have decided that aionios also must be of limited duration in the lake of fire and can only mean eternal when referring to heaven!
YOu stand in stark opposition to th evast super majority of the greek speaking world and greek translating world!
And like a Russellite or Mormon you have believed the originator of this fallacy that there is some vast super conspiracy that has blinded the 99+% of the believing world into thinking that aionios when it comes to punishment means eternal !
Sorry, still waiting for a verse that shows there is repentance in the lake of fire!
Well that would be wrong as well! Specially here is an adverb which modifies a verb and means uniquely of specifically.
Jesus is the Savior of the World. But that doesn't mean He saves the world!
It means there is no other Savior one can turn to!
All other gods, means, methods and ways of thinking one could get saved have been destroyed by jesus and His death and REsurrection from the dead!
Jesus limited those who actually get saved to those who believe and trust!
Still waiting for the verse that causes you to win that says the lost in the lake of fire can repent and get saved!
I just let teh Bible speak for itself and then form my opinions from that. Eternal torment for the lost is a sad but absolute reality based on a normal reading of SCripture.
Jesus Christ is a glorious Saviour,
HOWEVER
He is only a potential Saviour lol?
Dear drowning sinners of Adam please hold your breath and go glub, glug, glub.
That's your bare naked opinion. I gave my opinion fully clothed, i.e. with evidence. Who is a judge going to believe has been caught with their pants down. You or me.
You've never even provided one!
Considering that you've admitted that yet have provided no proof of even a single instance of aionion in all of ancient Koine Greek, whether in or outside of Scripture, ever meaning "eternal", the weight of evidence thus far is obviously very weighty against your bare naked opinion.
I have stated no such position. Furthermore there are multiple views of the meaning of aionion, not only by universalists but also by lexicons, scholars & Christians of various views not called universalism. Moreover, since you provided no scripture references, what verses you are referring to, if they even exist, is unknown.
1) Perhaps that has to do with it (a) being the last days, or (b) Satan being god of this wicked world, or (c) endless hell biased translators parroting one another for filthy lucre or reputation or to not lose their job or to line up with denominational creeds, or (d) that words often change their meaning in 1500+ years, or (e) that's built upon many centuries of the endlesss torturing dogma of the "church" of "holy crusades", Inquisitors torturing "heretics" to make them recant, burning those of dissenting theologies at the stake, & much more bad fruit identifying such.
In the early church universalism was the orthodox (biblical) view & may have been the orthodox (majority) view for centuries (see urls below) prior to the dark ages of ignorance, illiteracy, lack of education & bibles for the common man It may also be today, or be on the way to becoming so, in this more enlightened "internet age", the majority Christian view (see urls below):
In the absence of any saying "there is no repentance there but endless sadistic tortures by a God who is supposed to be Love Omnipotent", the burden of proof lies totally with you to prove that the Father of all created beings is such a beng Universalists here and all over the internet & in dozens of books available on Amazon, etc, have provided plenty of scriptural evidence to the contrary.
If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?
There never was any other way that needed to be destroyed before His death. The plan of salvation was already in place before the foundation of the world, before anyone had ever sinned.
Yet another lame, feeble, failing attempt to support your theology. Nothing there states there are no more chances after the second coming. Nothing there states the Love of Love Crucified the Omnipotent has expired like a carton of milk & the Almighty is powerless to save. Nothing states Love unending will hold grudges, bitterness and hate against anyone for all eternity, as your theology would have us believe.
Good grief ! ! !
Evidently you, big guy, have no need to have your understanding opened by the Master of reconciliation?
Why don't you head over to wheelies for Jesus Eric L. and ask him what dianoigo means?
Your backup got questions may help you.
dianoigo =
Poor Poor Clement! Strongs is great to learn a basic definition of a word! But it does nothing to show how th eword is used and the way it isrendered in Greek. Do you know all the ways a noun is presented in Greek? And how each change renders the same word with diffwering meanings? Strongs is Greek not 101 but 001.
All your arguments and you still haven't given the one thing that would prove you right! A clear verse that shows the lost in the Lake of Fire with their incorruptible, immortal bodies while being tortured can repent and be saved while there! Do that and I repent!
Well that would be wrong as well! Specially here is an adverb which modifies a verb and means uniquely of specifically.
Jesus is the Savior of the World. But that doesn't mean He saves the world!
It means there is no other Savior one can turn to!
All other gods, means, methods and ways of thinking one could get saved have been destroyed by jesus and His death and REsurrection from the dead!
Jesus limited those who actually get saved to those who believe and trust!
Still waiting for the verse that causes you to win that says the lost in the lake of fire can repent and get saved!
Ya all have one thing in common- what is written is not good enough!
So the lost in teh lake of fire don't have to ask Him? Then why bother even telling people????
YOur example is a total logical fallacy and red herring!
Once again if aionios is not eternal, then those going to aionios life do not have it eternally.
XYZ said:if aionios doesn't mean eternal, then are the righteous only for age-long life?
## History and Etymology for *eternal*
Adjective
Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin *aeternalis* , from Latin *aeternus* eternal, from *aevum* age, eternity — more at [AYE](Definition of AYE)
Definition of ETERNAL
XYZ said:if aionios doesn't mean eternal, then are the righteous only for age-long life?
And before you go with incorruption and immortality- every one lost and saved will have both prior to th elost being cast into the lake of fire
The second death is Death and the grave cast into the lake of fire (no more death) then the lost are cast into the lake of fire! So they live forever as well!
I myself am a Bible college graduate...
Very funny, big guy lol.
εἰς οἰκονομίαν τοῦ πληρώματος τῶν καιρῶν, ἀνακεφαλαιώσασθαι τὰ πάντα ἐν τῶ χριστῶ, τὰ ἐπὶ τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς· ἐν αὐτῶ,
It is referred to in Canon as being the first-fruits.
Notice the word "first" !
"God is always bigger than the boxes we build for God, so we should not waste too much time protecting the boxes." -Richard Rohr-
Yikes !
Perhaps you should enroll in an advanced class.
Did you not question the number of hells?
If you are not mannerly enough to post it in the language we speak- I have no time to chase your game playing.
Heres another yikes for you!
I teach advance courses for those who want to know God's Word! YOu hanging your head video is like Jesus placing a victors crown on my head!
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