The KJVO Myth - Phony As A Ford Corvette !

Saint Steven

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Serious modern translations use the best available sources, not earlier translations, to determine the most accurate text.

"The Bible you were raised on forms your beliefs which informs your translation decisions." Not if you're a serious academic professional or an independent thinker in search of the best translation. The best translations are done by committees and extensively reviewed by many people of different faiths, both professionals and amateurs.

Personally I use several translations to understand God's written word. They are, after all, translations, so none are perfect.
Yes, of course, but...
For the most part, Bible translation is a very conservative effort. As I understand it.
It would be a bold move to publish a translation that disregarded established interpretation and doctrine. And it is a consumer product after all. People already go crazy at the release of any new translation. They raise hell over any changes. As a comparison, do you remember what happened when Coca Cola "improved" it's recipe. Now we have Classic Coke. The original and still the best. IMHO - lol
 
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JSRG

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We see 1n 1 Cor. 14 that Paul wrote about people's not understanding one another's speech. While I realize he was mostly writing here about "unknown tongues", the same principle applies. If I heard a Chinese preacher giving a sermon, I wouldn't understand a word he said; same for him if he were listening to me.

The KJV's English is difficult for many users of current English.
I think that most of it isn't that hard, but there are still definitely parts where someone would get confused without an explanation. For example, if reading it according to modern English, Galatians 2:6 makes it look like Paul loses his train of thought midway through the sentence, because it says "seemed to be somewhat" and then never says what noun the word "somewhat" is modifying. But back then, "somewhat" could be used in the sense of "something". Swap out "somewhat" with "something", like the NKJV or 21st Century KJV do, and the passage makes more sense.

(granted, I still think "seemed to be something" is not the greatest translation--modern usage of "seemed to be" carries a note of skepticism that I don't think was conveyed in the original Greek, so something like the NASB's ""were of high reputation" gets the meaning across better. But "seemed to be something" is at least comprehensible, unlike "seemed to be somewhat")

Really, much of this problem could be fixed if editions of the KJV, like modern printings of Shakespeare's plays, included footnotes explaining what obscure words meant or indicating that a word's meaning had changed... for example, a footnote after "somewhat" that said "something" would immediately explain the situation. You don't even need to change the text. But I've never seen a KJVO suggest such a thing.
 
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JSRG

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The closest translation you can find to the original Greek and Hebrew would be the ESV.
Is it more literal than even the NASB? It was my understanding that, not counting outright interlinear translations, the NASB was basically the most literally translated Bible in English.
 
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pescador

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I think that is true today. But the history of the original translations is a bit sketchy.

What are "the original translations"? That's an oxymoron in my book (pun).
 
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pescador

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I think that most of it isn't that hard, but there are still definitely parts where someone would get confused without an explanation. For example, if reading it according to modern English, Galatians 2:6 makes it look like Paul loses his train of thought midway through the sentence, because it says "seemed to be somewhat" and then never says what noun the word "somewhat" is modifying. But back then, "somewhat" could be used in the sense of "something". Swap out "somewhat" with "something", like the NKJV or 21st Century KJV do, and the passage makes more sense.

(granted, I still think "seemed to be something" is not the greatest translation--modern usage of "seemed to be" carries a note of skepticism that I don't think was conveyed in the original Greek, so something like the NASB's ""were of high reputation" gets the meaning across better. But "seemed to be something" is at least comprehensible, unlike "seemed to be somewhat")

Really, much of this problem could be fixed if editions of the KJV, like modern printings of Shakespeare's plays, included footnotes explaining what obscure words meant or indicating that a word's meaning had changed... for example, a footnote after "somewhat" that said "something" would immediately explain the situation. You don't even need to change the text. But I've never seen a KJVO suggest such a thing.

Galatians 2:6 says, "But from those who were influential (whatever they were makes no difference to me; God shows no favoritism between people)—those influential leaders added nothing to my message." NET There is no loss of train of thought here; it makes perfect sense.

There is no point in adding explanatory footnotes to the KJV when modern translations are so much clearer.
 
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JSRG

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Galatians 2:6 says, "But from those who were influential (whatever they were makes no difference to me; God shows no favoritism between people)—those influential leaders added nothing to my message." NET There is no loss of train of thought here; it makes perfect sense.
I know that. I was saying that the way the KJV renders it makes it look like there's a loss of train of thought.

Nowadays "somewhat" is really only used to mean "to a moderate extent." But back then it could be used in the sense of "something." So in the KJV Galatians 2:6 we have:

"But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:"

(I had to remove the semicolon after the closing parenthetical, as it triggered a smiley)

So according to modern understanding of the word somewhat, Paul is describing people as being of "somewhat" but before giving the required adjective that "somewhat" would be modifying (e.g. "somewhat big"), he goes on a parenthetical tangent, and afterwards doesn't actually finish the thought and moves onto a new one. Due to the meaning shift of somewhat, to a modern reader it looks like Paul loses his train of thought due to the tangent, leaving his previous thought incomplete.

Obviously, modern translations do not suffer from this problem. That was my point.

There is no point in adding explanatory footnotes to the KJV when modern translations are so much clearer.
I was more commenting on how it's odd that KJVOs don't suggest such explanatory notes, as it mitigates the issue of the archaic language.
 
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Radagast

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Is it more literal than even the NASB? It was my understanding that, not counting outright interlinear translations, the NASB was basically the most literally translated Bible in English.

For the Greek, at least, the ESV is closer to the original.
 
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Saint Steven

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What are "the original translations"? That's an oxymoron in my book (pun).
The first English translations. What you referred to earlier as happening "1700 years ago".
 
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robycop3

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Sportzz Fanzz, may we return to the topic of the KJVO myth ?

I use the term "KJVO myth" because a myth is a widely-held but false idea. I call it a doctrine because a doctrine is any idea or premise that's taught. KJVO meets both criteria.

People tell me KJVO has no Scriptural support because all Scripture was given before English existed, let alone the KJV. But GOD could've made it plain to us somehow in His word if he actually supported KJVO. Remember, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING !

We have posted the cultic & dishonest origin of the current edition of the KJVO myth. God does NOT operate that way !

Now, there's nothing wrong with one's using only the KJV (or any other one version only) long as that person doesn't tell others that his/her pet version is the ONLY valid one out there. That's simply a LIE.

And we still see NO KJVO daring to step forward to try to defend the KJVO myth.
 
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Sportzz Fanzz, may we return to the topic of the KJVO myth ?
I use the term "KJVO myth" because a myth is a widely-held but false idea. I call it a doctrine because a doctrine is any idea or premise that's taught. KJVO meets both criteria.
People tell me KJVO has no Scriptural support because all Scripture was given before English existed, let alone the KJV. But GOD could've made it plain to us somehow in His word if he actually supported KJVO. Remember, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING !
We have posted the cultic & dishonest origin of the current edition of the KJVO myth. God does NOT operate that way !
Now, there's nothing wrong with one's using only the KJV (or any other one version only) long as that person doesn't tell others that his/her pet version is the ONLY valid one out there. That's simply a LIE.
And we still see NO KJVO daring to step forward to try to defend the KJVO myth.
This bears repeating.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Sportzz Fanzz, may we return to the topic of the KJVO myth ?
I use the term "KJVO myth" because a myth is a widely-held but false idea. I call it a doctrine because a doctrine is any idea or premise that's taught. KJVO meets both criteria.
People tell me KJVO has no Scriptural support because all Scripture was given before English existed, let alone the KJV. But GOD could've made it plain to us somehow in His word if he actually supported KJVO. Remember, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING !
We have posted the cultic & dishonest origin of the current edition of the KJVO myth. God does NOT operate that way !
Now, there's nothing wrong with one's using only the KJV (or any other one version only) long as that person doesn't tell others that his/her pet version is the ONLY valid one out there. That's simply a LIE.
And we still see NO KJVO daring to step forward to try to defend the KJVO myth.
This bears repeating.
Did God not have the Bible into English then until 1611? Eramus and 1611 team used latin Vulate, was that a word of the Lord before Kjv?
 
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Saint Steven

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Did God not have the Bible into English then until 1611? Eramus and 1611 team used latin Vulate, was that a word of the Lord before Kjv?
The printing press (with movable type) was not even invented until the 16th century.
 
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Saint Steven

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Well, actually, the movable-type printing press was invented by Gutenburg around 1440.
Yes, thanks.
And the KJV, not until 1611.
But much longer until the Bible was available to everyone.
Literacy, expense and church politics/control, stood in the way.
 
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Radagast

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Well, actually, the movable-type printing press was invented by Gutenburg around 1440.

And in 1455, Gutenburg started printing the Bible (in Latin).

The problem with the KJVO crowd is that they seem to forget about languages other than English.

And even in English, they forget about the Tyndale/Coverdale Bible of 1535 and the Geneva Bible of 1560.
 
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YeshuaFan

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And in 1455, Gutenburg started printing the Bible (in Latin).

The problem with the KJVO crowd is that they seem to forget about languages other than English.

And even in English, they forget about the Tyndale/Coverdale Bible of 1535 and the Geneva Bible of 1560.
The Kjv 1944 Team saw them as being legit bibles, and saw that others would improve and build upon their 1611 in future!
 
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The AV makers didn't intend their version to be the end-all, be-all English Bible translation. If more KJVOs would read their preface, "To The Reader", placed in the AV 1611 & readily available on the internet, there'd be a lot fewer KJVOs.
Yes, as they never claimed to be inspired, not that were making a perfect translation, just the best they could at that time!
 
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