The KJVO Myth Has NO Scriptural support!

[ViaCrucis]

It was certainly effective in that purpose for me and my future salvation.

Probably because the KJV, like any at least half-decent translation of the Bible, is still going to present for you the truth of the Gospel: of God the Word made flesh, suffering, dying, rising from the dead, for you and for your salvation.

Not because the KJV is magic.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

If you need to change the words to suit your theology it may indicate the words of God are not what you seek to bolster that theology.

Since I'm not changing anything, this statement is moot.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Radagast]

As you are unwilling to answer my question, I will wait for your answer before answering your question

I'll take that as a "no" on knowing Greek.

 

[Phil W]

Probably because the KJV, like any at least half-decent translation of the Bible, is still going to present for you the truth of the Gospel: of God the Word made flesh, suffering, dying, rising from the dead, for you and for your salvation.

Not because the KJV is magic.

-CryptoLutheran

The KJV doesn't hide the word "perfect" where it is appropriate.
Other versions do.
That, to me, is a clue to their interpretation's source.

 

[Phil W]

Since I'm not changing anything, this statement is moot.

-CryptoLutheran

Not you, but the versions of the bible that you subscribe to do.

 

[kiwimac]

The KJV doesn't hide the word "perfect" where it is appropriate.
Other versions do.
That, to me, is a clue to their interpretation's source.

Ah, that would be rubbish.

 

[Phil W]

Ah, that would be rubbish.

How do you personally feel about perfect Christians?

 

[Radagast]

How do you personally feel about perfect Christians?

I've never met any.

Here on earth, perfect sinless Christians don't exist.

 

[kiwimac]

God, in Christ, calls us to mercy and compassion not perfection for the very simple reason no one can be perfect here.

 

[Phil W]

I've never met any.

Here on earth, perfect sinless Christians don't exist.

Let me introduce myself.
I have been in Christ for fifteen years, and there is no sin in Christ.
Without being reborn, no man shall see heaven, so my rebirth was essential to living without sin.
To be reborn, a new creature, I had to first kill the old man.
That is accomplished at our baptism into Christ and into His death.
We partake of the death, burial, and most importantly we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The results are written of in the seventh verse of Rom 6..."For he that is dead is freed from sin".
Coupled with a real repentance from sin...permanently...what walks the earth now is an ex-sinner who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ.
And as Peter says in Acts 2:38, those who turn from sin and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Spirit will not enter a defiled 'temple'.
God provides everything we need to remain faithfully sinless, including verses like..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Look for the escapes, and "sin no more".

 

[Radagast]

Let me introduce myself.

If you think that you are without sin, you deceive yourself.

 

[Phil W]

If you think that you are without sin, you deceive yourself.

I walk in the light, God...and there is no sin in here.
My past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ, and my repentance from sin was real.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Not you, but the versions of the bible that you subscribe to do.

The KJV isn't the standard against which other translations are to be compared, so this is also a go-nowhere statement.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

The KJV doesn't hide the word "perfect" where it is appropriate.
Other versions do.
That, to me, is a clue to their interpretation's source.

What makes the KJV's use of "perfect" more appropriate than other translations which don't?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Phil W]

The KJV isn't the standard against which other translations are to be compared, so this is also a go-nowhere statement.

-CryptoLutheran

Aren't you using your own preferred translation to denigrate my choice?
What makes your choice so special?
How has your choice increased your manifestations of the grace of God on earth?

 

[Phil W]

What makes the KJV's use of "perfect" more appropriate than other translations which don't?

-CryptoLutheran

By using the word "perfect", they acknowledge the power of the inspiration of God to make a man perfect.
By changing the word "perfect" to something else, they diminish the God inspired words to make a man merely "complete".

While I realize that those who only pose as Christians will ever be either perfect or complete, it dose give hope to some that they are on a perfect path.
And it is my "go-to" when checking translations of the bible that I am unfamiliar with.
"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump".

 

[ViaCrucis]

Aren't you using your own preferred translation to denigrate my choice?
What makes your choice so special?

I'm not. I don't rely on any one translation. While I am in the habit of generally using the ESV, I also make use of the NRSV and occasionally the NET. However, if I want clarity I don't rely on a translation, I look at the source texts themselves, along with making use of lexicons, commentaries, and in general scholarship and historic Christian teaching and exegesis to try and get the best picture of what the text is saying.

If I simply relied, entirely, on a translation--especially any one translation--I would inevitably misunderstand a lot of things, because I would be limiting myself to an English translation and my own private interpretations of what those English words mean. And as I do not believe in my own infallibility, but on the contrary, that I am a deeply fallible human being, it is in my best interests if I want to take the Bible seriously to examine, study, and lean on two thousand years of Christians far more intelligent and well-studied than myself.

How has your choice increased your manifestations of the grace of God on earth?

Bible translations don't do that. So the question is kind of meaningless.

I put my hope and trust in Jesus Christ, and rely on His grace to hold me and keep me with Him, by the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in me and this I know by the pure promise of God, and as pure gift from God. And in this faith live my life here in the world among my neighbors, as I am fed and nourished by God's gifts of Word and Sacrament, and seek to live as a Christian toward the world.

-CryptoLutheran.

 

[ViaCrucis]

By using the word "perfect", they acknowledge the power of the inspiration of God to make a man perfect.

I have no idea who "they" is here. But if you really want to understand what Scripture means by "perfect" then you wouldn't be relying exclusively on the KJV, but actually study the Scriptures and what the biblical writers intended to communicate.

By changing the word "perfect" to something else, they diminish the God inspired words to make a man merely "complete".

God didn't inspire the word "perfect", the inspired texts use words such as τελειόω and ἄρτιος. Translations not using "perfect" aren't changing anything.

The word τελειόω means "complete". That's not diminishing or changing, that's simply what the word objectively means. When Jesus says "It is finished" He says τετέλεσται, a case form of τελέω. All of these verbs and adjectives are from the word τέλος, "end", "goal". A telos is the goal toward which a thing is done, or a completed purpose accomplished. When Jesus says in Luke 13:32 καὶ τῇ τρίτῃ τελειοῦμαι, He speaks of how His rising from the dead makes complete, brings to conclusion, His purpose; it does not--as some Mormons I have spoken to tried to argue--mean that Jesus somehow achieved "perfection".

So this whole "they diminish the God inspired words" line is pure codswallop.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Phil W]

I'm not. I don't rely on any one translation. While I am in the habit of generally using the ESV, I also make use of the NRSV and occasionally the NET. However, if I want clarity I don't rely on a translation, I look at the source texts themselves, along with making use of lexicons, commentaries, and in general scholarship and historic Christian teaching and exegesis to try and get the best picture of what the text is saying.

I guess I can understand your continued search, as you seem to be wafting in the wind.

If I simply relied, entirely, on a translation--especially any one translation--I would inevitably misunderstand a lot of things, because I would be limiting myself to an English translation and my own private interpretations of what those English words mean. And as I do not believe in my own infallibility, but on the contrary, that I am a deeply fallible human being, it is in my best interests if I want to take the Bible seriously to examine, study, and lean on two thousand years of Christians far more intelligent and well-studied than myself.

Having received the gift of the Spirit of God, I have no qualms about adhering to the KJV bible.
It's the versions published after it that chafe me spiritually.

Bible translations don't do that...(How has your choice increased your manifestations of the grace of God on earth?)... So the question is kind of meaningless.

I'm sorry you have so little faith in the words inspired by God to make one "perfect".

I put my hope and trust in Jesus Christ, and rely on His grace to hold me and keep me with Him, by the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in me and this I know by the pure promise of God, and as pure gift from God. And in this faith live my life here in the world among my neighbors, as I am fed and nourished by God's gifts of Word and Sacrament, and seek to live as a Christian toward the world.-CryptoLutheran.

Why not use that trust to petition God to show you a way to eliminate the bad versions of the bible instead of searching through several versions for guidance you don't believe in?

 

[kiwimac]

I guess I can understand your continued search, as you seem to be wafting in the wind.


Having received the gift of the Spirit of God, I have no qualms about adhering to the KJV bible.
It's the versions published after it that chafe me spiritually.


I'm sorry you have so little faith in the words inspired by God to make one "perfect".


Why not use that trust to petition God to show you a way to eliminate the bad versions of the bible instead of searching through several versions for guidance you don't believe in?

The KJV is not the standard by which we judge other English versions of the Bible and certainly not the Greek and Hebrew.