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The Jellyfish in the brains of science deeply insult mankind.

Aman777

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So, we CAN be perfect here on earth then?

In God's eyes, all Christians are perfect where ever they are.

Why aren't all of us given this perfection at the start and instead are expected to believe in Jesus on bad to no evidence?

It's a matter of free choice to believe or Not. It's called free will and no one can say that those who freely choose Hell, don't deserve it. If you wish to become immortal, have your sins forgiven and regain your perfect body, then just ask/pray for the Faith to believe.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

Why is our perfection reliant on belief without substance of an unnecessary blood sacrifice?

Justice demands that someone live that perfect, sinless, life God demands or God can never have a perfect eternal Heaven. Jesus gave His life for our sins, was buried and arose the third day, according to the Scriptures. Immortality alone is worth turning to God and praying for Faith to believe that Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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You should not lame God for not revealing all things abut the future and past to man now. It is fine not to know. It is not fine to claim to know when you do not.
I'm asking Questions, dad, I'm not convinced any God exists, let alone yours. so again;
"Why wait until the other side to be "finished"? if it can be done at all, then it can be done here - or is God not all-powerful?

Well, again, if there is free will that is fit for Heaven, then it exists and could be here with us now, but isn't. Why not give this heavenly will to us here on Earth, doesn't God love us? Is God not all-powerful?"​
None of it actually. None at all. Name any study on what time is like in far space?

If you took the time to learn the science, you'd understand why. Obviously I can't teach you Science if you won't learn it, so it's on you to take the time - it isn't hard.
Not hard at all.

Noah was not that many generations ago. He was likely contemporary with Abraham. Nothing in known of fossils of man in his day, or genetics or mutations etc etc. Looking at mutations now is a joke when trying to talk about the far past.
You Fail to address the evidence. The evidence demonstrates thousands of generations just within the modern human genome alone.
Explain how mutations in current present nature genes in any way relates to former nature genes???
There's no difference. All of the ERVs are affected in the same way between extant species directly proportional to their timeline within our collective genomes. Again, if you believe the genome of all living species could handle the amount of random mutaton you think they've undertaken in just a few thousand years, then it's on you to substantiate that claim - not for me to disprove something for which there's no evidence...
In other words the way ervs work today in this nature, if extrapolated backwards tells us certain things. Too bad you cannot extrapolate this nature backwards. My condolences.
Wen have and we've made accurate predictions on the data, your ignorance is all your own.
If you knew what state existed, we could talk.
Well, you certainly don't, so even though we do, we still can't talk because of your denial and self imposed ignorance.
The rapid mountain building and continental separation, and different deposition rates, plant growth rates, etc etc etc..all come together to mean that the layers were likely laid down fast.
Not even in your wildest dreams. Again, salt layers hundreds if not thousands of feet thick, oil and coal reserves, buried coral reefs that take hundreds of thousands of years to form, gooseneck erosion formations, fossilised animal activity (tracks, coprolites, fossilised nests, etc.) throughout the geological column from top to bottom, all of which you have no way of explaining how it could occur quickly, let alone during a worldwide flood that would prevent any of this occurring.
Not sure which part of 'you do not know any distance to any star in the universe, or any size of any star, because you need to know time exists at all points the same to be able to do so' that you cannot understand.
I understand perfectly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about, let alone why you're wrong, especially considering the dearth of any supporting evidence of your fantastical assertions.
 
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dad

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I'm asking Questions, dad, I'm not convinced any God exists, let alone yours. so again;
"Why wait until the other side to be "finished"? if it can be done at all, then it can be done here - or is God not all-powerful?

Well, again, if there is free will that is fit for Heaven, then it exists and could be here with us now, but isn't. Why not give this heavenly will to us here on Earth, doesn't God love us? Is God not all-powerful?"​
Why not get a college education in grade one?​
I agree, it is not hard to spam irrelevant links. The trick would be to show in any of them where it proves time is the same in the far universe, or even addresses the issue! (or a same nature in the past on earth)
You Fail to address the evidence. The evidence demonstrates thousands of generations just within the modern human genome alone.
Your beliefs do that in your head. There is not even DNA for 100 generations of man. What the tarnation are you talking about!?

There's no difference. All of the ERVs are affected in the same way between extant species directly proportional to their timeline within our collective genomes. Again, if you believe the genome of all living species could handle the amount of random mutaton you think they've undertaken in just a few thousand years, then it's on you to substantiate that claim - not for me to disprove something for which there's no evidence...
Don't blame us if you attribute creation to mutation for religious reason! Nor if you think present state mutations are involved in the ancient fossil record. Nor ...etc etc
Wen have and we've made accurate predictions on the data, your ignorance is all your own.
Post one.
Well, you certainly don't, so even though we do, we still can't talk because of your denial and self imposed ignorance.
The bible rules the prophesy dept.
Not even in your wildest dreams. Again, salt layers hundreds if not thousands of feet thick, oil and coal reserves, buried coral reefs that take hundreds of thousands of years to form, gooseneck erosion formations, fossilised animal activity (tracks, coprolites, fossilised nests, etc.) throughout the geological column from top to bottom, all of which you have no way of explaining how it could occur quickly, let alone during a worldwide flood that would prevent any of this occurring. Easily explained. Name any formation.

Now stop peddling religion.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Utterly ridiculous. If time was not the same the universe would be too hot!!!?? Hilarious. 'We would notice it here'?? How? We are in time that is a certain way here. We cannot experience time any other way here.
Another fantastical claim without supporting evidence. Everything we know shows this would be the case and you've never provided any evidence otherwise. No surprise, of course.

Just like sound, if time elsewhere was twice as fast or half of what we experience here, those stars would be invisible to us here. Your lack of understanding makes for a spectacularly embarrassing set of claims everyone on the internet will know you made while wallowing in your deliberate ignorance.
We see some elements. What we don't see we do not know. But science claims most of the universe is invisible to them anyhow!
We see plenty to know what these stars are made of, how hot they are and their mass as a result. We don't see black holes, but we know quite a lot about them all the same.
There are fallen angels in space...you see them? No. If there is any spiritual component to deep space we would not see that. We would invent some fishbowl explanations for what we see. That is what science is about!
You see some objects attracting...but how far away and how big they are you do not know. So what can you tell us about gravity there??
Quite a lot. That's how we know about black holes and dark matter. Assertions about any angels, let alone fallen angels is just nonsense until you can offer up some evidence. I won't hold my breath given your track record.
Fishbowl convergence is not very deep.
No comeback, I see. Unable to address the evidence. Not surprised.
Not as hilarious as taking a huge swath of space from our solar system and pretending no time in woven in or involved!!!
Again, your ignorance does you in. There isn't a time quotient to parallax. Observations are taken from two locations. That's It! I understand you need to fabricate any tenuous circumstance to protect your faulty beliefs, but it's just your ignorance and unwillingness to accept the reality of this false position that's holding you back and making your claims so hilariously far-fetched.
It does when a base line tens of millions of miles long that is from space and time here is used.
Nope, still doesn't use time....
Easy. Time exists! You cannot avoid it here on earth. It cannot be waved away or ignored. There is not space here without time also!
:D lol! in that case, time is involved in 2+2=4. That's as lame as an explanation as I've ever heard. It just doesn't wash. Are you going to tell me that we can't know 2+2=4 out there?? :D :D :D Sorry dad but this reasoning just makes you look plain silly!
NO distances are known by you at all to any star. None.
Denial! The answer to everything is Denial! :D no explanation of why everything we can observe isn't so, just Denial! :D :D :D lol! You must know your position is on the wrong side of reality...
Your electronics does not work where stars are, only in the fishbowl.
Our electronics work at least as far out as past Pluto, that torpedoes your pathetic attempt to falsify Parallax in our Solar System.... Face it, you can't explain away all the observations we make in any rational way. Everything you say is just thermonuclear denial in favour of an untenable position you've completely invested yourself in. Your religious interpretation is just not concordant to reality, and I know you know it too. :D lol!
We do not know what all causes lensing in deep space! Not only that, but since no distances or sizes are known, you have no idea what you are seeing.
As always dad, it's just your denial playing tricks on you. Notonly did we predict Gravitational lensing, but we've been able to make predictions of events based on gravitational lensing. In fact, we eagerly awaited a 4th display of a supernova that occurred in a galaxy billions of years away:


Your deliberate ignorance is making your posts look very silly indeed...
The mere fact science is religion does not put it on equal footing with the proven word of God in any way. No more than a dead flashlight battery is on the same footing as the sun.
:D LOL! "Proven word of God"?? Whatever helps you sleep at night, dad. Why don't you show us some of these "proven words" you speak of? Your religious interpretation predicts nothing, adds nothing to Humanity and will contribute nothing to humanity for as long as we exist. Look at yourself as a prime example, you deny all of the evidence we have for all the science that has afforded us pretty much everything we take for granted today. You're effectively unable to contribute to science in any aspect besides as a consumer, contributing third hand to sponsor this Science... actually, I guess since you consume the science you don't believe in, you're sponsoring it at the checkout anyway...
Mine. Science of origins is total Satanic lies and fables.
LOL! Where's all your Evidence? Science has nothing to do with any religion, let alone yours - You use science all the time and benefit from it equally - are you part of this so called Satanic lie too? :D
The problem with science is not just that is one of a thousand minor beliefs, but that it puffs itself up and claims to be fact and truth.
Science is nothing more than a tool, or process we use to sort fact from fiction. That your fiction isn't supported by any facts, yet all the facts science has revealed goes against your fiction must cut deep to the bone.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Why not get a college education in grade one?
You can just concede you can't answer the questions, nobody would ridicule you for it, in fact, quite the opposite, you'd garner quite a lot of respect.
I agree, it is not hard to spam irrelevant links. The trick would be to show in any of them where it proves time is the same in the far universe, or even addresses the issue! (or a same nature in the past on earth)
From https://www.space.com/41077-einstein-general-relativity-survives-test.html :
"Like all scientific theories, general relativity makes testable predictions. One of the most important is the "equivalence principle" — the notion that all objects fall in the same way, no matter how big they are or what they're made of. [Einstein's Theory of Relativity Explained (Infographic)]

Researchers have confirmed the equivalence principle many times on Earth — and, famously, on the moon. In 1971, Apollo 15 astronaut David Scott dropped a feather and a hammer simultaneously; the two hit the gray lunar dirt at the same time. (On Earth, of course, the feather would flutter to the ground much later than the hammer, having been held up by our atmosphere.)

But it's tough to know if the equivalence principle applies in all situations — when the objects involved are incredibly dense or massive, for example. This wiggle room has given hope to adherents of alternative gravity theories, though such folks remain in the minority.

The new study could take some of the air out of their optimism. An international team of astronomers tested the equivalence principle under extreme conditions: a system composed of two superdense stellar corpses known as white dwarfs and an even denser neutron star."

"The system in question, known as PSR J0337+1715, is located 4,200 light-years from Earth, in the direction of the constellation Taurus. The pulsar, which rotates 366 times per second, co-orbits on the interior with one of the white dwarfs; the pair circles a common center of mass every 1.6 Earth days. This duo is in a 327-day orbit with the other white dwarf, which lies much farther away.

The pulsar packs 1.4 times the sun's mass into a sphere the size of Amsterdam, whereas the interior white dwarf harbors just 0.2 solar masses and is about the size of Earth. So, they're very different objects — but they should be pulled by the outer white dwarf in the same way if the equivalence principle is on the money.

The researchers tracked the pulsar's movements by monitoring its radio-wave emissions. They did this for six years, using the Westerbork Synthesis Radio Telescope in the Netherlands, the Green Bank Telescope in West Virginia and the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.

"We can account for every single pulse of the neutron star since we began our observations," study leader Anne Archibald, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Amsterdam and the Netherlands Institute for Radio Astronomy, said in a statement. "And we can tell its location to within a few hundred meters. That is a really precise track of where the neutron star has been and where it is going."

A violation of the equivalence principle would manifest as a distortion in the pulsar's orbit — a difference between the neutron star's path and that of its interior white-dwarf companion. This distortion would cause the pulsar radiation to arrive at a slightly different time than expected.

But the researchers didn't detect any such distortion.

"If there is a difference, it is no more than 3 parts in a million," co-author Nina Gusinskaia, a doctoral student at the University of Amsterdam, said in the same statement.

"Now, anyone with an alternative theory of gravity has an even narrower range of possibilities that their theory has to fit into in order to match what we have seen," Gusinskaia added. "Also, we have improved on the accuracy of the best previous test of gravity, both within the solar system and with other pulsars, by a factor of about 10."​

Because this will totally lose you & you'll just say some retarded nonsense about how some different state past will look exactly the same as exactly the same state past would, this just wouldn't be possible to show Einstein's Theory of Relativity to be so accurate in any other state. Your different state past would have to have exactly the same gravity acting on exactly the same radiowave emissions in exactly the right measures to look like exactly the same result we'd predict with Relativity - essentially your "different state past" would have to be the same state past in every respect for this to match, the very thing these researchers were testing! :D lol!

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment :
"The Hafele–Keating experiment was a test of the theory of relativity. In October 1971, Joseph C. Hafele, a physicist, and Richard E. Keating, an astronomer, took four cesium-beam atomic clocks aboard commercial airliners. They flew twice around the world, first eastward, then westward, and compared the clocks against others that remained at the United States Naval Observatory. When reunited, the three sets of clocks were found to disagree with one another, and their differences were consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity."

"According to special relativity, the rate of a clock is greatest according to an observer who is at rest with respect to the clock. In a frame of reference in which the clock is not at rest, the clock runs more slowly, as expressed by the Lorentz factor. This effect, called time dilation, has been confirmed in many tests of special relativity, such as the Ives–Stilwell experiment and experimental testing of time dilation.[1] Considering the Hafele–Keating experiment in a frame of reference at rest with respect to the center of the earth, a clock aboard the plane moving eastward, in the direction of the Earth's rotation, had a greater velocity (resulting in a relative time loss) than one that remained on the ground, while a clock aboard the plane moving westward, against the Earth's rotation, had a lower velocity than one on the ground.[2]"

"General relativity predicts an additional effect, in which an increase in gravitational potential due to altitude speeds the clocks up. That is, clocks at higher altitude tick faster than clocks on Earth's surface. This effect has been confirmed in many tests of general relativity, such as the Pound–Rebka experiment and Gravity Probe A. In the Hafele–Keating experiment, there was a slight increase in gravitational potential due to altitude that tended to speed the clocks back up. Since the aircraft flew at roughly the same altitude in both directions, this effect was approximately the same for the two planes, but nevertheless it caused a difference in comparison to the clocks on the ground.[2]"

"Results
The results were published in Science in 1972:[3][4]

|_________ |__Predicted nanoseconds gained ___|________ __|____________|
|_________ | _________Predicted _____ |________|_Measured_| _Difference_ |
|_________ | Gravitational | Kinematic _ |_ Total__|___________|____________|

|_________ | _______________________ |________|________ __|____________|


|eastward _| ___ +144 ±14 | __ −184 ±18 |_−40 ±23 |___ −59 ±10 | ______0.76 σ |

|westward_| ___ +179 ±18 | ___ +96 ±10 | +275 ±21 |___+273 ±7 | ______0.09 σ |
And of course, knowing you can't put it together, this is showing how we know Relativity is accurate and why what we measure using other information in conjunction with these General & Special Relativity calculations, give us a known useful and predictive framework with which to observe distant objects and make accurate predictions that could only work in a same state past.

From https://www.forbes.com/sites/chador...ts-that-show-relativity-is-real/#5e168b022999 :
"Observing such "gravitational lensing" would require a really fortuitous alignment of objects on the sky, but the universe is "vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big," in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, and such alignments do, in fact, exist. One of the prettiest is seen in the image above, a Hubble telescope picture of two galaxies. Yes, there are five dots, but the outer four are, in fact, images of a single very bright galaxy located behind the fainter central dot (dramatically confirmed recently by seeing "replays" of a supernova in the lensed images). The middle galaxy bends light from the distant one to create the multiple images dubbed the "Einstein cross" by astronomers with marketing savvy.

There are lots of gravitational lenses known, and measuring these has become a useful tool for other areas of astronomy, even including searches for extrasolar planets. The image above is simple of of the most dramatic and aesthetic instances of the bending of light by massive objects."​
The above is in relation to an image linked here at https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/...om/chadorzel/files/2015/07/Einstein_cross.jpg

The below text is in reference to this plotted graph against predicted graph (aligns perfectly :D ) at https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/...adorzel/files/2015/07/hulse_taylor_pulsar.jpg :
"The most dramatic consequences of general relativity involve huge masses in compact spaces, which are really difficult to generate on Earth. Starting in 1967 with the discovery of the first pulsar by Jocelyn Bell Burnell, though, radio astronomers have had the ability to observe some of these directly. After a brief period when the regular, repeating signal from pulsars was thought to be artificial, astronomers realized these were likely rapidly rotating neutron stars, sending beams of radio waves out into the universe thanks to the rapid motion of charged particles near the magnetic poles of the star. These are not perfectly aligned with the rotation axis (just like Earth's magnetic poles) and as the star spins, they sweep across the sky like the beam from a lighthouse, and to a distant observer appear as regular "flashes" of light.

In 1974, Russell Hulse and Joseph Taylor spotted a new pulsar and from small shifts in the frequency of the pulses deduced that it is rapidly orbiting a second object; from the rotation speed and size of the orbit, they determined that the other object was most likely also a neutron star (we don't see pulses from that one, probably because its poles are pointed in a direction such that the beams don't hit us). The orbital period is about eight hours, so they got to see lots of orbits, and measure the orbital parameters very well.

Such a system of huge, rapidly moving objects ought to produce gravitational waves, a stretching and compression of spacetime predicted by Einstein's general relativity. These gravitational waves, in turn, should carry off some energy, causing the orbit of the pulsar to decay over time, as the two pulsars spiral together toward an eventual collision. Observations over a period of many years, shown in the graph above, agree beautifully with the prediction of general relativity for how the orbit ought to change due to this energy loss. These observations earned Hulse and Taylor the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics."​

Again, here is Einstein's Relativity predicting and accurately modelling the subsequent observations in two unrelated scenarios that rely entirely on a set of conditions that are identical to what we've demonstrated here and now. The article talks about gravitational waves that had yet to be detected, which of course have since been detected.

This last link, https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/testing-time-asymmetry-early-universe was something I included for lurkers, rather than you. It'd no doubt go right over your head, but to anyone who wanted to hear some specialists in theoretical and experimental physicists discussing the early universe and the spacetime that came about, how it relates to what we know, what we expect to be able to find out about it, etc. then there's an overload in this 2 hours and 24 minute talk.

So there you go - All of the Evidence, All of it, supports a same state past, a state for which we wouldn't be able to make such accurate predictions tested and passing so often as has been the case. Your dreary old tired assertion of some different state past nonsense could only work if it were all of the same conditions as we experience here and now. If it weren't, these predictions simply wouldn't be predictable. The fact is, your different state past fantasy would likely render the rest of the universe invisible to us, let alone give us wildly inaccurate observations to what we'd predict and then expect to see.

Now, your assertion that some undetectable yet identical in every observable way "different state past" existed, has no foundation or support in any way. Your complete resistance to the reality you've been presented makes you literally an irrational person basing their belief on an interpretation of your religion that's untenable in every way.

No wonder nobody tries to talk sense to you...
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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In God's eyes, all Christians are perfect where ever they are.
So, perfection has nothing to do with it, it's literally just belief in Jesus that qualifies anyone for Heaven? So much for an unattainable standard, what nonsense is this?
It's a matter of free choice to believe or Not. It's called free will and no one can say that those who freely choose Hell, don't deserve it.
You've already said that your God can give you free will when you get to Heaven, yet you won't destroy Heaven with evil - Why not give us that "Heavenly" free will to start with here on Earth? Is your God incapable?
If you wish to become immortal, have your sins forgiven and regain your perfect body, then just ask/pray for the Faith to believe.
But I don't believe? How do you ask for "Faith to believe" when you don't believe to start with, Why would an all-knowing God expect us to believe without evidence in the first place?

A thought exercise for you, Why don't you pray to Vishnu for "Faith to believe"? what about praying to Santa Clause for "Faith to believe"? wouldn't those propositions just seem absurdness of the highest order? because that's how it sounds to me when you ask me to pray to something I don't believe in.
Justice demands that someone live that perfect, sinless, life God demands or God can never have a perfect eternal Heaven. Jesus gave His life for our sins, was buried and arose the third day, according to the Scriptures. Immortality alone is worth turning to God and praying for Faith to believe that Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Nonsense. What system of Justice do you know of that requires an innocent person to serve time or be executed? None, Not even ISIS expects this rubbish to fly. No sacrifice of any innocent anywhere absolves me of a crime I commit. If I do something wrong, then it's on Me to serve the time, not some innocent I've never met. Your God can change the rules he laid down anytime he'd like. If he can perform miracles (which is the suspension of a much stricter Law of the Universe than arbitrary rules he's dictated and has already changed some time ago), then he can change rules he's dictated to us again. He's changed them before after all...

Lastly, even if your God were real, Jesus only spent a weekend in the heat before going back to his eternity of ruling the universe, he didn't make an ultimate sacrifice, all things considered. If he can break the law, then he doesn't require us to believe in an untenable and barbaric blood sacrifice to be forgiven, he can just forgive us in the same way I can forgive my kids.
 
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dad

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You can just concede you can't answer the questions, nobody would ridicule you for it, in fact, quite the opposite, you'd garner quite a lot of respect.

From https://www.space.com/41077-einstein-general-relativity-survives-test.html :
"Like all scientific theories, general relativity makes testable predictions. One of the most important is the "equivalence principle" — the notion that all objects fall in the same way, no matter how big they are or what they're made of. [Einstein's Theory of Relativity Explained (Infographic)]

Researchers have confirmed the equivalence principle many times on Earth — and, famously, on the moon. In 1971, Apollo 15 astronaut David Scott dropped a feather and a hammer simultaneously; the two hit the gray lunar dirt at the same time. (On Earth, of course, the feather would flutter to the ground much later than the hammer, having been held up by our atmosphere.)

But it's tough to know if the equivalence principle applies in all situations — when the objects involved are incredibly dense or massive, for example. This wiggle room has given hope to adherents of alternative gravity theories, though such folks remain in the minority.

The new study could take some of the air out of their optimism. An international team of astronomers tested the equivalence principle under extreme conditions: a system composed of two superdense stellar corpses known as white dwarfs and an even denser neutron star."

"The system in question, known as PSR J0337+1715, is located 4,200 light-years from Earth, in the direction of the constellation Taurus. The pulsar, which rotates 366 times per second, co-orbits on the interior with one of the white dwarfs; the pair circles a common center of mass every 1.6 Earth days. This duo is in a 327-day orbit with the other white dwarf, which lies much farther away.

The pulsar packs 1.4 times the sun's mass into a sphere the size of Amsterdam, whereas the interior white dwarf harbors just 0.2 solar masses and is about the size of Earth. So, they're very different objects — but they should be pulled by the outer white dwarf in the same way if the equivalence principle is on the money.

The researchers tracked the pulsar's movements by monitoring its radio-wave emissions. They did this for six years, using the Westerbork Synthesis Radio Telescope in the Netherlands, the Green Bank Telescope in West Virginia and the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.

"We can account for every single pulse of the neutron star since we began our observations," study leader Anne Archibald, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Amsterdam and the Netherlands Institute for Radio Astronomy, said in a statement. "And we can tell its location to within a few hundred meters. That is a really precise track of where the neutron star has been and where it is going."

A violation of the equivalence principle would manifest as a distortion in the pulsar's orbit — a difference between the neutron star's path and that of its interior white-dwarf companion. This distortion would cause the pulsar radiation to arrive at a slightly different time than expected.

But the researchers didn't detect any such distortion.

"If there is a difference, it is no more than 3 parts in a million," co-author Nina Gusinskaia, a doctoral student at the University of Amsterdam, said in the same statement.

"Now, anyone with an alternative theory of gravity has an even narrower range of possibilities that their theory has to fit into in order to match what we have seen," Gusinskaia added. "Also, we have improved on the accuracy of the best previous test of gravity, both within the solar system and with other pulsars, by a factor of about 10."​

Because this will totally lose you & you'll just say some retarded nonsense about how some different state past will look exactly the same as exactly the same state past would, this just wouldn't be possible to show Einstein's Theory of Relativity to be so accurate in any other state. Your different state past would have to have exactly the same gravity acting on exactly the same radiowave emissions in exactly the right measures to look like exactly the same result we'd predict with Relativity - essentially your "different state past" would have to be the same state past in every respect for this to match, the very thing these researchers were testing! :D lol!

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment :
"The Hafele–Keating experiment was a test of the theory of relativity. In October 1971, Joseph C. Hafele, a physicist, and Richard E. Keating, an astronomer, took four cesium-beam atomic clocks aboard commercial airliners. They flew twice around the world, first eastward, then westward, and compared the clocks against others that remained at the United States Naval Observatory. When reunited, the three sets of clocks were found to disagree with one another, and their differences were consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity."

"According to special relativity, the rate of a clock is greatest according to an observer who is at rest with respect to the clock. In a frame of reference in which the clock is not at rest, the clock runs more slowly, as expressed by the Lorentz factor. This effect, called time dilation, has been confirmed in many tests of special relativity, such as the Ives–Stilwell experiment and experimental testing of time dilation.[1] Considering the Hafele–Keating experiment in a frame of reference at rest with respect to the center of the earth, a clock aboard the plane moving eastward, in the direction of the Earth's rotation, had a greater velocity (resulting in a relative time loss) than one that remained on the ground, while a clock aboard the plane moving westward, against the Earth's rotation, had a lower velocity than one on the ground.[2]"

"General relativity predicts an additional effect, in which an increase in gravitational potential due to altitude speeds the clocks up. That is, clocks at higher altitude tick faster than clocks on Earth's surface. This effect has been confirmed in many tests of general relativity, such as the Pound–Rebka experiment and Gravity Probe A. In the Hafele–Keating experiment, there was a slight increase in gravitational potential due to altitude that tended to speed the clocks back up. Since the aircraft flew at roughly the same altitude in both directions, this effect was approximately the same for the two planes, but nevertheless it caused a difference in comparison to the clocks on the ground.[2]"

"Results
The results were published in Science in 1972:[3][4]

|_________ |__Predicted nanoseconds gained ___|________ __|____________|
|_________ | _________Predicted _____ |________|_Measured_| _Difference_ |
|_________ | Gravitational | Kinematic _ |_ Total__|___________|____________|

|_________ | _______________________ |________|________ __|____________|


|eastward _| ___ +144 ±14 | __ −184 ±18 |_−40 ±23 |___ −59 ±10 | ______0.76 σ |

|westward_| ___ +179 ±18 | ___ +96 ±10 | +275 ±21 |___+273 ±7 | ______0.09 σ |
And of course, knowing you can't put it together, this is showing how we know Relativity is accurate and why what we measure using other information in conjunction with these General & Special Relativity calculations, give us a known useful and predictive framework with which to observe distant objects and make accurate predictions that could only work in a same state past.

From https://www.forbes.com/sites/chador...ts-that-show-relativity-is-real/#5e168b022999 :
"Observing such "gravitational lensing" would require a really fortuitous alignment of objects on the sky, but the universe is "vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big," in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, and such alignments do, in fact, exist. One of the prettiest is seen in the image above, a Hubble telescope picture of two galaxies. Yes, there are five dots, but the outer four are, in fact, images of a single very bright galaxy located behind the fainter central dot (dramatically confirmed recently by seeing "replays" of a supernova in the lensed images). The middle galaxy bends light from the distant one to create the multiple images dubbed the "Einstein cross" by astronomers with marketing savvy.

There are lots of gravitational lenses known, and measuring these has become a useful tool for other areas of astronomy, even including searches for extrasolar planets. The image above is simple of of the most dramatic and aesthetic instances of the bending of light by massive objects."​
The above is in relation to an image linked here at https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https://blogs-images.forbes.com/chadorzel/files/2015/07/Einstein_cross.jpg

The below text is in reference to this plotted graph against predicted graph (aligns perfectly :D ) at https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https://blogs-images.forbes.com/chadorzel/files/2015/07/hulse_taylor_pulsar.jpg :
"The most dramatic consequences of general relativity involve huge masses in compact spaces, which are really difficult to generate on Earth. Starting in 1967 with the discovery of the first pulsar by Jocelyn Bell Burnell, though, radio astronomers have had the ability to observe some of these directly. After a brief period when the regular, repeating signal from pulsars was thought to be artificial, astronomers realized these were likely rapidly rotating neutron stars, sending beams of radio waves out into the universe thanks to the rapid motion of charged particles near the magnetic poles of the star. These are not perfectly aligned with the rotation axis (just like Earth's magnetic poles) and as the star spins, they sweep across the sky like the beam from a lighthouse, and to a distant observer appear as regular "flashes" of light.

In 1974, Russell Hulse and Joseph Taylor spotted a new pulsar and from small shifts in the frequency of the pulses deduced that it is rapidly orbiting a second object; from the rotation speed and size of the orbit, they determined that the other object was most likely also a neutron star (we don't see pulses from that one, probably because its poles are pointed in a direction such that the beams don't hit us). The orbital period is about eight hours, so they got to see lots of orbits, and measure the orbital parameters very well.

Such a system of huge, rapidly moving objects ought to produce gravitational waves, a stretching and compression of spacetime predicted by Einstein's general relativity. These gravitational waves, in turn, should carry off some energy, causing the orbit of the pulsar to decay over time, as the two pulsars spiral together toward an eventual collision. Observations over a period of many years, shown in the graph above, agree beautifully with the prediction of general relativity for how the orbit ought to change due to this energy loss. These observations earned Hulse and Taylor the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics."​

Again, here is Einstein's Relativity predicting and accurately modelling the subsequent observations in two unrelated scenarios that rely entirely on a set of conditions that are identical to what we've demonstrated here and now. The article talks about gravitational waves that had yet to be detected, which of course have since been detected.

This last link, https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/testing-time-asymmetry-early-universe was something I included for lurkers, rather than you. It'd no doubt go right over your head, but to anyone who wanted to hear some specialists in theoretical and experimental physicists discussing the early universe and the spacetime that came about, how it relates to what we know, what we expect to be able to find out about it, etc. then there's an overload in this 2 hours and 24 minute talk.

So there you go - All of the Evidence, All of it, supports a same state past, a state for which we wouldn't be able to make such accurate predictions tested and passing so often as has been the case. Your dreary old tired assertion of some different state past nonsense could only work if it were all of the same conditions as we experience here and now. If it weren't, these predictions simply wouldn't be predictable. The fact is, your different state past fantasy would likely render the rest of the universe invisible to us, let alone give us wildly inaccurate observations to what we'd predict and then expect to see.

Now, your assertion that some undetectable yet identical in every observable way "different state past" existed, has no foundation or support in any way. Your complete resistance to the reality you've been presented makes you literally an irrational person basing their belief on an interpretation of your religion that's untenable in every way.

No wonder nobody tries to talk sense to you...
I'll have to look at post more carefully to see if there was something missed. However it seems you still miss the whole concepts involved.
Looking at time dilation on earth is irellavent to what time is far from the fishbowl. Looking at lensing effects in space does no good unless we know distances. Nor does lensing require fishbowl reasons necessarily.

Nothing you post even addresses what time is like in deep space.
 
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dad

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Another fantastical claim without supporting evidence. Everything we know shows this would be the case and you've never provided any evidence otherwise. No surprise, of course.

Just like sound, if time elsewhere was twice as fast or half of what we experience here, those stars would be invisible to us here. Your lack of understanding makes for a spectacularly embarrassing set of claims everyone on the internet will know you made while wallowing in your deliberate ignorance.

We see plenty to know what these stars are made of, how hot they are and their mass as a result. We don't see black holes, but we know quite a lot about them all the same.

Quite a lot. That's how we know about black holes and dark matter. Assertions about any angels, let alone fallen angels is just nonsense until you can offer up some evidence. I won't hold my breath given your track record.

No comeback, I see. Unable to address the evidence. Not surprised.

Again, your ignorance does you in. There isn't a time quotient to parallax. Observations are taken from two locations. That's It! I understand you need to fabricate any tenuous circumstance to protect your faulty beliefs, but it's just your ignorance and unwillingness to accept the reality of this false position that's holding you back and making your claims so hilariously far-fetched.

Nope, still doesn't use time....

:D lol! in that case, time is involved in 2+2=4. That's as lame as an explanation as I've ever heard. It just doesn't wash. Are you going to tell me that we can't know 2+2=4 out there?? :D :D :D Sorry dad but this reasoning just makes you look plain silly!

Denial! The answer to everything is Denial! :D no explanation of why everything we can observe isn't so, just Denial! :D :D :D lol! You must know your position is on the wrong side of reality...

Our electronics work at least as far out as past Pluto, that torpedoes your pathetic attempt to falsify Parallax in our Solar System.... Face it, you can't explain away all the observations we make in any rational way. Everything you say is just thermonuclear denial in favour of an untenable position you've completely invested yourself in. Your religious interpretation is just not concordant to reality, and I know you know it too. :D lol!

As always dad, it's just your denial playing tricks on you. Notonly did we predict Gravitational lensing, but we've been able to make predictions of events based on gravitational lensing. In fact, we eagerly awaited a 4th display of a supernova that occurred in a galaxy billions of years away:


Your deliberate ignorance is making your posts look very silly indeed...

:D LOL! "Proven word of God"?? Whatever helps you sleep at night, dad. Why don't you show us some of these "proven words" you speak of? Your religious interpretation predicts nothing, adds nothing to Humanity and will contribute nothing to humanity for as long as we exist. Look at yourself as a prime example, you deny all of the evidence we have for all the science that has afforded us pretty much everything we take for granted today. You're effectively unable to contribute to science in any aspect besides as a consumer, contributing third hand to sponsor this Science... actually, I guess since you consume the science you don't believe in, you're sponsoring it at the checkout anyway...

LOL! Where's all your Evidence? Science has nothing to do with any religion, let alone yours - You use science all the time and benefit from it equally - are you part of this so called Satanic lie too? :D

Science is nothing more than a tool, or process we use to sort fact from fiction. That your fiction isn't supported by any facts, yet all the facts science has revealed goes against your fiction must cut deep to the bone.
Work as far as Pluto.. .you kidding? What has that got to do with deep space? Now as far as time being an inexorable part of the world and the solar system and the fishbowl...you can't deny it. Try to show us any huge swath of space here where there is no time? Name a place on earth there exists no time? How is it that you think you can say space here exists independently of time, so that you can use hundreds of millions of miles of space and claim there is no time there also!?
 
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expos4ever

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Do you love your family ?
Of course, but one need not believe in the existence of an immaterial soul to love your family. This whole notion of an immaterial soul that inhabits the body is not really a Biblical idea; it is borrowed from Greek thinking.
 
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Aman777

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So, perfection has nothing to do with it, it's literally just belief in Jesus that qualifies anyone for Heaven? So much for an unattainable standard, what nonsense is this?

No. It's the belief that Jesus rose from the dead according to the Scriptures.

Nonsense. What system of Justice do you know of that requires an innocent person to serve time or be executed?

God told Christians thousands of years ago what you would say. You used the word nonsense instead of foolishness.

1Co 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
 
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dad

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You can just concede you can't answer the questions, nobody would ridicule you for it, in fact, quite the opposite, you'd garner quite a lot of respect.
If you could get your relies to address the actual question, that would be a start for you.
From https://www.space.com/41077-einstein-general-relativity-survives-test.html :
"Like all scientific theories, general relativity makes testable predictions. One of the most important is the "equivalence principle" — the notion that all objects fall in the same way, no matter how big they are or what they're made of. [Einstein's Theory of Relativity Explained (Infographic)]

Researchers have confirmed the equivalence principle many times on Earth — and, famously, on the moon. In 1971, Apollo 15 astronaut David Scott dropped a feather and a hammer simultaneously; the two hit the gray lunar dirt at the same time. (On Earth, of course, the feather would flutter to the ground much later than the hammer, having been held up by our atmosphere.)

But it's tough to know if the equivalence principle applies in all situations — when the objects involved are incredibly dense or massive, for example. This wiggle room has given hope to adherents of alternative gravity theories, though such folks remain in the minority.

The new study could take some of the air out of their optimism. An international team of astronomers tested the equivalence principle under extreme conditions: a system composed of two superdense stellar corpses known as white dwarfs and an even denser neutron star."

"The system in question, known as PSR J0337+1715, is located 4,200 light-years from Earth, in the direction of the constellation Taurus. The pulsar, which rotates 366 times per second, co-orbits on the interior with one of the white dwarfs; the pair circles a common center of mass every 1.6 Earth days. This duo is in a 327-day orbit with the other white dwarf, which lies much farther away.

The pulsar packs 1.4 times the sun's mass into a sphere the size of Amsterdam, whereas the interior white dwarf harbors just 0.2 solar masses and is about the size of Earth. So, they're very different objects — but they should be pulled by the outer white dwarf in the same way if the equivalence principle is on the money.​
Let's review what is actually known. Despite the claim the objects are 4200 light years away, we do not know how far away they are. We do not know time exists out there, so we do not know distances or what time is involved in the light from there getting here.

So, what's left? You claim a certain size. No way. Distance must be known for that obviously. Next we do not know gravity is the same, or what size or actual mass of an object the gravity is from! So, even if we were to allow the equivalency principle there...so what???!!
The researchers tracked the pulsar's movements by monitoring its radio-wave emissions. They did this for six years, using the Westerbork Synthesis Radio Telescope in the Netherlands, the Green Bank Telescope in West Virginia and the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.

"We can account for every single pulse of the neutron star since we began our observations," study leader Anne Archibald, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Amsterdam and the Netherlands Institute for Radio Astronomy, said in a statement. "And we can tell its location to within a few hundred meters. That is a really precise track of where the neutron star has been and where it is going."
False. They do not know distances or sizes, that figure is a religious one, based on all the other beliefs.
A violation of the equivalence principle would manifest as a distortion in the pulsar's orbit — a difference between the neutron star's path and that of its interior white-dwarf companion. This distortion would cause the pulsar radiation to arrive at a slightly different time than expected.

But the researchers didn't detect any such distortion.

Only a distortion in the orbit would be a violation of the E principle? There could be other forces and things at work out there we are not yet familiar with.
"Now, anyone with an alternative theory of gravity has an even narrower range of possibilities that their theory has to fit into in order to match what we have seen," Gusinskaia added. "Also, we have improved on the accuracy of the best previous test of gravity, both within the solar system and with other pulsars, by a factor of about 10."
Here we have the poor guy admitting they only tested (of course) gravity within the solar system! Then we are to..what...assume gravity is the same everywhere? Gravity that is acting on objects we know not how big or far away!

.. this just wouldn't be possible to show Einstein's Theory of Relativity to be so accurate in any other state.
I never really said much about what state is out there. The issue was whether time existed out there as we know it here exactly. Without that you have no distances.

Then there is the matter of all we see being HERE in the fishbowl, where our laws have to be obeyed. So why would anything we see here DISOBEY them!!? Even if they had other laws out there!?

Your different state past would have to have exactly the same gravity acting on exactly the same radiowave emissions in exactly the right measures to look like exactly the same result we'd predict with Relativity -

The different nature was on earth in the past...not out in space. If there was any difference in laws out there, how would we here know it? We see it all here! ALL!!!!!

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment :
"The Hafele–Keating experiment was a test of the theory of relativity. In October 1971, Joseph C. Hafele, a physicist, and Richard E. Keating, an astronomer, took four cesium-beam atomic clocks aboard commercial airliners. They flew twice around the world, first eastward, then westward, and compared the clocks against others that remained at the United States Naval Observatory. When reunited, the three sets of clocks were found to disagree with one another, and their differences were consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity."​
Time dilation on earth is not relevant to what may happen in far far far space.



"General relativity predicts an additional effect, in which an increase in gravitational potential due to altitude speeds the clocks up. That is, clocks at higher altitude tick faster than clocks on Earth's surface. This effect has been confirmed in many tests of general relativity, such as the Pound–Rebka experiment and Gravity Probe A. In the Hafele–Keating experiment, there was a slight increase in gravitational potential due to altitude that tended to speed the clocks back up. Since the aircraft flew at roughly the same altitude in both directions, this effect was approximately the same for the two planes, but nevertheless it caused a difference in comparison to the clocks on the ground.[2]"
Great...but not relevant to deep space.

And of course, knowing you can't put it together, this is showing how we know Relativity is accurate and why what we measure using other information in conjunction with these General & Special Relativity calculations, give us a known useful and predictive framework with which to observe distant objects and make accurate predictions that could only work in a same state past.
All you are saying is that if time dilation happens here it golly gee must happen everywhere. No. That does not give a reason to consider the fishbowl the 'framework' basis for the universe!
From https://www.forbes.com/sites/chador...ts-that-show-relativity-is-real/#5e168b022999 :
"Observing such "gravitational lensing" would require a really fortuitous alignment of objects on the sky, but the universe is "vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big," in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, and such alignments do, in fact, exist. One of the prettiest is seen in the image above, a Hubble telescope picture of two galaxies. Yes, there are five dots, but the outer four are, in fact, images of a single very bright galaxy located behind the fainter central dot (dramatically confirmed recently by seeing "replays" of a supernova in the lensed images). The middle galaxy bends light from the distant one to create the multiple images dubbed the "Einstein cross" by astronomers with marketing savvy.​
Many things could cause lensing in deep space. Since no distances are known at all, you have no idea what gravity is working on what...etc.

The below text is in reference to this plotted graph against predicted graph (aligns perfectly :D ) at https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https://blogs-images.forbes.com/chadorzel/files/2015/07/hulse_taylor_pulsar.jpg :
"The most dramatic consequences of general relativity involve huge masses in compact spaces, which are really difficult to generate on Earth. Starting in 1967 with the discovery of the first pulsar by Jocelyn Bell Burnell, though, radio astronomers have had the ability to observe some of these directly. After a brief period when the regular, repeating signal from pulsars was thought to be artificial, astronomers realized these were likely rapidly rotating neutron stars, sending beams of radio waves out into the universe thanks to the rapid motion of charged particles near the magnetic poles of the star. These are not perfectly aligned with the rotation axis (just like Earth's magnetic poles) and as the star spins, they sweep across the sky like the beam from a lighthouse, and to a distant observer appear as regular "flashes" of light.

In 1974, Russell Hulse and Joseph Taylor spotted a new pulsar and from small shifts in the frequency of the pulses deduced that it is rapidly orbiting a second object; from the rotation speed and size of the orbit, they determined that the other object was most likely also a neutron star (we don't see pulses from that one, probably because its poles are pointed in a direction such that the beams don't hit us). The orbital period is about eight hours, so they got to see lots of orbits, and measure the orbital parameters very well.​
So what? Yes, things orbit out there. Heck...atoms have things orbiting them! Just because orbiting 'stars' send out signals does not mean anything you think or claim! Try to think outside your religion.
Such a system of huge, rapidly moving objects ought to produce gravitational waves, a stretching and compression of spacetime predicted by Einstein's general relativity. These gravitational waves, in turn, should carry off some energy, causing the orbit of the pulsar to decay over time,
Too bad you have not observed over time eh!!! Not the sort of time you claim things take out there! Your explanation is faith based. Religion.



as the two pulsars spiral together toward an eventual collision. Observations over a period of many years, shown in the graph above, agree beautifully with the prediction of general relativity for how the orbit ought to change due to this energy loss. These observations earned Hulse and Taylor the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics."

How many years does your graph have compared to the time it would take for the collision?!

"​
Again, here is Einstein's Relativity predicting and accurately modelling the subsequent observations in two unrelated scenarios that rely entirely on a set of conditions that are identical to what we've demonstrated here and now. The article talks about gravitational waves that had yet to be detected, which of course have since been detected.
Overstating things much?

"The waveform, detected by both LIGO observatories,[6] matched the predictions of general relativity[7][8][9] for a gravitational wave emanating from the inward spiral and merger of a pair of black holes of around 36 and 29 solar masses and the subsequent "ringdown" of the single resulting black hole.[note 1] The signal was named GW150914 (from "Gravitational Wave" and the date of observation 2015-09-14).[3][11][note 2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_observation_of_gravitational_waves

The link above talks of the first gravity wave detection. So how long did /does it take for black holes to merge? Did we see the one black hole appear from the two!? Ha. The whole tale is fiction, including the so called sizes/distances of the so called black holes. Sure, there may be gravity waves....the rest of your fable is hogwash.

This last link, https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/testing-time-asymmetry-early-universe was something I included for lurkers, rather than you. It'd no doubt go right over your head, but to anyone who wanted to hear some specialists in theoretical and experimental physicists discussing the early universe and the spacetime that came about, how it relates to what we know, what we expect to be able to find out about it, etc. then there's an overload in this 2 hours and 24 minute talk.
Utter insanity and religion. I question the sanity of anyone that actually truly believes that.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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If you could get your relies to address the actual question, that would be a start for you.
No comeback. Noted.
Let's review what is actually known. Despite the claim the objects are 4200 light years away, we do not know how far away they are. We do not know time exists out there, so we do not know distances or what time is involved in the light from there getting here.

So, what's left? You claim a certain size. No way. Distance must be known for that obviously. Next we do not know gravity is the same, or what size or actual mass of an object the gravity is from! So, even if we were to allow the equivalency principle there...so what???!!
You haven't refuted anything in the information I provided, discarded as wishful thinking.
False. They do not know distances or sizes, that figure is a religious one, based on all the other beliefs.
More assertions from your wishful thinking. Discarded.
Only a distortion in the orbit would be a violation of the E principle? There could be other forces and things at work out there we are not yet familiar with.
More bald assertions from your unsubstantiated wishful thinking, Discarded. :D lol! this is too easy!
Here we have the poor guy admitting they only tested (of course) gravity within the solar system! Then we are to..what...assume gravity is the same everywhere? Gravity that is acting on objects we know not how big or far away!
No evidence or even decent reasoning as to why it might be different - again, you've had it explained why the evidence demonstrates the same conditions there - Discarded until you can provide any evidence for your wishful fantasy.
I never really said much about what state is out there. The issue was whether time existed out there as we know it here exactly. Without that you have no distances.
That's still to do with any "state", same or different, real or your fantasy state, take your pick. Until you can demonstrate how your different state/time would be transparent to us here, your fantasy state is just that - fantasy.
Then there is the matter of all we see being HERE in the fishbowl, where our laws have to be obeyed. So why would anything we see here DISOBEY them!!? Even if they had other laws out there!?
Because it originated "out there", which according to your delusional fantasy state, has some different time or condition(s). Until you can show why it would be undetectable here, your fantasy state past is discarded as fantasy.
The different nature was on earth in the past...not out in space. If there was any difference in laws out there, how would we here know it? We see it all here! ALL!!!!!
And if light, gravity waves, radiation, etc. originates out there under some other circumstance different to how it operates here, it would be blindingly obvious. Until you can demonstrate why we wouldn't see these glaring discrepancies here, your fantasy can be safely laughed at from a distance.
Time dilation on earth is not relevant to what may happen in far far far space.
Well, all the evidence shows it works exactly the same out there as it does here. Until you can give us any evidence to counter all the evidence we have that supports an identical state, your fantasies can be discarded as such.
Great...but not relevant to deep space.
We've made accurate predictions, so you can be ignored with prejudice on that until you can bring forth some spectacular evidence to counter these observed predictions.
All you are saying is that if time dilation happens here it golly gee must happen everywhere. No. That does not give a reason to consider the fishbowl the 'framework' basis for the universe!
The accurate predictions we've made are the supporting evidence that validates time dilation we observe everywhere. Your wishful thinking that it isn't the same can and will be ignored until you can bring forth some evidence to the contrary.
Many things could cause lensing in deep space. Since no distances are known at all, you have no idea what gravity is working on what...etc.
Well, we've determined the distances already, so you can be ignored on that point too. You'll have to provide some evidence to explain the phenomena better than what we've been able to predict with so far... I have no doubt you can't, so Discarded again!
So what? Yes, things orbit out there. Heck...atoms have things orbiting them! Just because orbiting 'stars' send out signals does not mean anything you think or claim! Try to think outside your religion.
I don't have a religion - Feel free to think outside yours anytime you're ready though! Again, discarded for all the wishful thinking and no evidence.
Too bad you have not observed over time eh!!! Not the sort of time you claim things take out there! Your explanation is faith based. Religion.
Too bad for you that they have! More assertions about some fantasy scenario of yours that has no foundation - Discarded until you can support your random assertions with evidence.
How many years does your graph have compared to the time it would take for the collision?!
Not sure - it's been 30 years at least, and as much as 43 years if they still haven't collided. From this link: https://astrobites.org/2018/02/02/looking-back-at-the-hulse-taylor-binary-pulsar/ :

"Many followup observations of the Hulse-Taylor pulsar binary system were conducted and after years of collecting more data, it was noticed that the orbital speed was increasing and the orbit getting tighter (see Fig. 2 for an example of these measurements). This is weird because it leaves a discrepancy in the system’s energy when accounting for the changes in gravitational potential and velocities. Where was this energy going? As usual, Einstein to the rescue! Using General Relativity the missing energy could be tracked down to an emission in the form of stretching and squeezing of spacetime, aka gravitational waves.

The discovery of the pulsar binary and it’s missing energy in the form of gravitational waves paved the way forward for the establishment of the now well-known LIGO detectors. And as we all know from the 14 Sept. 2015 GW150914 detection, gravitational waves do exist and we can directly detect them. Even more importantly we can detect these events in different forms as was recently shown by GW170817. This type of multi-messenger detection observed in x-ray, radio, infrared, and gravitational waves will usher in a whole new era of astronomy and astrophysics."​

Perhaps you can point out where in Einstein's Relativity equations we might find the inaccuracies? Until then, your fantasy wishes for it being not true are Discarded.
Overstating things much?

"The waveform, detected by both LIGO observatories,[6] matched the predictions of general relativity[7][8][9] for a gravitational wave emanating from the inward spiral and merger of a pair of black holes of around 36 and 29 solar masses and the subsequent "ringdown" of the single resulting black hole.[note 1] The signal was named GW150914 (from "Gravitational Wave" and the date of observation 2015-09-14).[3][11][note 2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_observation_of_gravitational_waves

The link above talks of the first gravity wave detection. So how long did /does it take for black holes to merge? Did we see the one black hole appear from the two!? Ha. The whole tale is fiction, including the so called sizes/distances of the so called black holes. Sure, there may be gravity waves....the rest of your fable is hogwash.
Not overstating things at all, and Yes, we saw one black hole of around 62 solar masses emerge from that binary black hole system. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_black_hole:

"Lifecycle
Inspiral
The first stage of the life of a binary black hole is the inspiral which resembles a gradually shrinking orbit. The first stages of the inspiral take a very long time, as the gravitation waves emitted are very weak when the black holes are distant from each other. In addition to the orbit shrinking due to the emission of gravitational waves, extra angular momentum may be lost due to interactions with other matter present, such as other stars.

As the black holes’ orbit shrinks, the speed increases, and gravitational wave emission increases. When the black holes are close the gravitational waves cause the orbit to shrink rapidly.

The last stable orbit or innermost stable circular orbit (ISCO) is the innermost complete orbit before the transition from inspiral to merger.

Merger
This is followed by a plunging orbit in which the two black holes meet, followed by the merger. Gravitational wave emission peaks at this time.

Ringdown
Immediately following the merger, the now single black hole will “ring” – oscillating in shape between a distorted, elongated spheroid and a flattened spheroid. This ringing is damped in the next stage, called the ringdown, by the emission of gravitational waves. The distortions from the spherical shape rapidly reduce until the final stable sphere is present, with a possible slight distortion due to remaining spin.

Observation
The first observation of stellar mass binary black holes merging was performed by the LIGO detector.[14][19][20] As measured from earth, a pair of black holes with estimated masses around 36 and 29 times that of the Sun spun into each other and merged to form a 62 solar mass black hole (approximate) on 14 September 2015, at 09:50 UTC.[21] Three solar masses were converted to gravitational radiation in the final fraction of a second, with a peak power 3.6×1056 ergs/second (200 solar masses per second),[14] which is 50 times the total output power of all the stars in the observable universe.[22] The merger took place at 1.3 billion light years from Earth.[19] The observed signal is consistent with the predictions of numerical relativity.[2][3][4]"

Yep! Seems all our observations are supporting the current spacetime we expect to see just fine. You really need to pick up your game dad, you're inability to produce any evidence and in stead, just continuous chants of "Nuh-Uh!" make your posts look like a desperate attempt to fortify your own failing beliefs in the face of all the contradicting evidence we have in spades... Discarded until you can support your fantasies with something substantive. :D lol!
Utter insanity and religion. I question the sanity of anyone that actually truly believes that.
but not your own for believing absolute inanity on no evidence and in the face of all the evidence that contradicts your fantasy interpretation of your religion?? :D :D :D

I can accept these findings of Science as the best explanation based on the evidence at hand right now. If it turns out to be unsubstantiated, or even false, I have no problem dropping it and moving on. YOU on the other hand, are wedded to this demonstrably inaccurate belief, based on a faulty interpretation of your religion for which your God's supposed creation actually yields an almost mind-numbingly huge pile of evidence and observations that shows your interpretation to be vastly mistaken (to be kind)... Your interpretation of your religion is literally untenable.
 
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No. It's the belief that Jesus rose from the dead according to the Scriptures.
First you say that your God's Perfect Heaven couldn't exist unless Perfect souls entered, which as it turns out doesn't happen because Jesus' unnecessary blood sacrifice doesn't make your soul perfect anyway, which as it turns out, also doesn't matter because being perfect has nothing to do with it, any soul can just "believe" in Jesus rising from the dead and go straight to your Perfect Heaven! None of this is making sense Aman, you keep flip-flopping from ad-hoc excuse to ad-hoc excuse, all of which turn your previous answers into folly! You keep undoing yourself, Aman.

What about us rational thinkers who can't just believe something on no evidence? If your God existed, why would your God not provide us all with a damascus road experience? Doesn't he have the ability to do this?
God told Christians thousands of years ago what you would say. You used the word nonsense instead of foolishness.

1Co 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
So Priests back then were already having a hard time keeping their tything believers in the face of critical analysis of their unfounded and unevidenced claims? Why would that be a surprise? Why don't you answer the question rather than divert? Again, What system of Justice do you know of that requires an innocent person to serve time or be executed?
 
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Work as far as Pluto.. .you kidding? What has that got to do with deep space? Now as far as time being an inexorable part of the world and the solar system and the fishbowl...you can't deny it. Try to show us any huge swath of space here where there is no time? Name a place on earth there exists no time? How is it that you think you can say space here exists independently of time, so that you can use hundreds of millions of miles of space and claim there is no time there also!?
If something exists in no time, then that's functionally equivalent to not existing. Existence is necessarily temporal, so either it exists in time, or it doesn't exist...
 
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dad

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No evidence or even decent reasoning as to why it might be different - again, you've had it explained why the evidence demonstrates the same conditions there - Discarded until you can provide any evidence for your wishful fantasy.

Nothing you posted even relates to what time is like in the far universe. The issue is not what you say often, but what you say that has bearing on the issues. As for why time may not be the same, that is above the pay grade of science.

I have reasons to suspect that the bible is right about creation, which would therefore mean that your conception/claims of the universe are utterly wrong.
That's still to do with any "state", same or different, real or your fantasy state, take your pick. Until you can demonstrate how your different state/time would be transparent to us here, your fantasy state is just that - fantasy.

Nothing is known to science out of the fishbowl, so forget the nature on earth in the past, or what time is like in deep space.

Because it originated "out there", which according to your delusional fantasy state, has some different time or condition(s). Until you can show why it would be undetectable here, your fantasy state past is discarded as fantasy.
And if light, gravity waves, radiation, etc. originates out there under some other circumstance different to how it operates here, it would be blindingly obvious.

How would light be expected to move differently here in the fishbowl, than our space and time allow? That makes no sense. Your whole approach is to say that because it does stuff here, it must do stuff the same way out in the unknown expanses of deep space.
Well, all the evidence shows it works exactly the same out there as it does here.
You only see it here. Go fisgure.


We've made accurate predictions, so you can be ignored with prejudice on that until you can bring forth some spectacular evidence to counter these observed predictions.
Name a prediction, I'm up for a laugh.
The accurate predictions we've made are the supporting evidence that validates time dilation we observe everywhere. Your wishful thinking that it isn't the same can and will be ignored until you can bring forth some evidence to the contrary.
Relativity in the fishbowl does not mean relativity outside it.
Well, we've determined the distances already, so you can be ignored on that point too.

What you determine by faith and religion and belief is of no import.

You'll have to provide some evidence to explain the phenomena better than what we've been able to predict with so far... I have no doubt you can't, so Discarded again!

The object of the game is not explaining life in the fishbowl.
I don't have a religion - Feel free to think outside yours anytime you're ready though! Again, discarded for all the wishful thinking and no evidence.
Denial is a sure trait of your religion. You confirm it.

Not sure - it's been 30 years at least, and as much as 43 years if they still haven't collided. From this link: https://astrobites.org/2018/02/02/looking-back-at-the-hulse-taylor-binary-pulsar/ :

"Many followup observations of the Hulse-Taylor pulsar binary system were conducted and after years of collecting more data, it was noticed that the orbital speed was increasing and the orbit getting tighter (see Fig. 2 for an example of these measurements). This is weird because it leaves a discrepancy in the system’s energy when accounting for the changes in gravitational potential and velocities. Where was this energy going? As usual, Einstein to the rescue! Using General Relativity the missing energy could be tracked down to an emission in the form of stretching and squeezing of spacetime, aka gravitational waves.​
Big problem invoking Einstein, in that mere waves do not tell us details of where they came from. Does a G wave tell us distance? Does it tell us if anything else out there might be making waves we don't know about? Does it tell us the exact gravity involved in the supposed star or whatever causing it? Seems to me you simply seek credit for the G waves by attributing them to your belief set. I notice you don't know the times involved either. You see, in some cases, the time involved is millions of years! So when we see something happen for a decade or two, that really would not be an real indicator in the big picture.

The discovery of the pulsar binary and it’s missing energy in the form of gravitational waves paved the way forward for the establishment of the now well-known LIGO detectors. And as we all know from the 14 Sept. 2015 GW150914 detection, gravitational waves do exist and we can directly detect them. Even more importantly we can detect these events in different forms as was recently shown by GW170817. This type of multi-messenger detection observed in x-ray, radio, infrared, and gravitational waves will usher in a whole new era of astronomy and astrophysics."
Waves exist. Now whether gravity is the same or the objects the size and distance you think, or anything else may also be at work we are not familiar with on earth...etc etc..we don't know.​
Perhaps you can point out where in Einstein's Relativity equations we might find the inaccuracies? Until then, your fantasy wishes for it being not true are Discarded.
Easy. E is only energy in the fishbowl. M is irrelevant in far space where there may be more than physical only objects, and mass is not known anyhow because distances are required for that. C is the time involved in the fishbowl for light moving! Ha haha
Not overstating things at all, and Yes, we saw one black hole of around 62 solar masses emerge from that binary black hole system.
No distances/sizes are known unless time exists the same all the way at all points. That is not known, so distances are not known.

As the black holes’ orbit shrinks, the speed increases, and gravitational wave emission increases. When the black holes are close the gravitational waves cause the orbit to shrink rapidly.
Great, so something has increasingly fast orbits out there. Whooopee do. Tel us in ten millions years if your theory worked out eh.

Merger
This is followed by a plunging orbit in which the two black holes meet, followed by the merger. Gravitational wave emission peaks at this time.
How many merged this week?
Ringdown
Immediately following the merger, the now single black hole will “ring” – oscillating in shape between a distorted, elongated spheroid and a flattened spheroid. This ringing is damped in the next stage, called the ringdown, by the emission of gravitational waves. The distortions from the spherical shape rapidly reduce until the final stable sphere is present, with a possible slight distortion due to remaining spin.
Seen a ringdown this week by any chance? Polly wolly dingdong fables.
Observation
The first observation of stellar mass binary black holes merging was performed by the LIGO detector.[14][19][20] As measured from earth, a pair of black holes with estimated masses around 36 and 29 times that of the Sun spun into each other and merged to form a 62 solar mass black hole (approximate) on 14 September 2015, at 09:50 UTC.[21] Three solar masses were converted to gravitational radiation in the final fraction of a second, with a peak power 3.6×1056 ergs/second (200 solar masses per second),[14] which is 50 times the total output power of all the stars in the observable universe.[22] The merger took place at 1.3 billion light years from Earth.[19] The observed signal is consistent with the predictions of numerical relativity.[2][3][4]"
Fantastical tale. 1.3 imaginary light years away, something 3 times the mass of the sun to form a black hole 62 times the mass of the sun. Blah blah. Too bad you really know no sizes or distances or what black holes are really for in creation...etc etc. You have religion.​
I can accept these findings of Science as the best explanation based on the evidence at hand right now. If it turns out to be unsubstantiated, or even false, I have no problem dropping it and moving on. YOU on the other hand, are wedded to this demonstrably inaccurate belief, based on a faulty interpretation of your religion for which your God's supposed creation actually yields an almost mind-numbingly huge pile of evidence and observations that shows your interpretation to be vastly mistaken (to be kind)... Your interpretation of your religion is literally untenable.
My beliefs are already known to be true. Never will they need dropping. We shall never be moved. The evidences on hand show that science is stuck firmly in the fishbowl, mind heart and soul.
 
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dad

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If something exists in no time, then that's functionally equivalent to not existing. Existence is necessarily temporal, so either it exists in time, or it doesn't exist...
Says you. However, God created time, so He exists fine with no need for it. Angels have no need of it as a restriction as they can traverse the universe in a heartbeat or less. Their existence, and that of believers, is not temporal, but eternal.

The space between the heaven of heavens (beyond our universe boundary) and earth does not need to exist in no time as you suggest. There may be time of some sort there. The thing is, what sort?! Your whole tact is to insist it has to be fishbowl time.
 
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Nothing you posted even relates to what time is like in the far universe. The issue is not what you say often, but what you say that has bearing on the issues. As for why time may not be the same, that is above the pay grade of science.

I have reasons to suspect that the bible is right about creation, which would therefore mean that your conception/claims of the universe are utterly wrong.
Oh, more assertions without substance. Discarded.
Nothing is known to science out of the fishbowl, so forget the nature on earth in the past, or what time is like in deep space.
More Assertions that can be Discarded!
How would light be expected to move differently here in the fishbowl, than our space and time allow? That makes no sense. Your whole approach is to say that because it does stuff here, it must do stuff the same way out in the unknown expanses of deep space.
If it didn't do the same out there than it does here, we would either see something very different to what we'd expect to see (slim possibility), or we wouldn't see it at all (most likely). Discarded for lack of substance.
You only see it here. Go fisgure.
Baseless assertions in spite of the evidence - Discarded.
Name a prediction, I'm up for a laugh.
We've been discussing them this whole time! Ignorance must be Bliss, is it dad?? Do you even understand what you've been looking at this whole time?? <=== (rhetorical question, I know the answer)
Relativity in the fishbowl does not mean relativity outside it.
It does if we can predict things with it... Discarded for being another unfounded assertion.
What you determine by faith and religion and belief is of no import.
Agreed. Thankfully I don't do that - YOU on the other hand make bald fantasy assertions determined purely by faith and religion all the time!
The object of the game is not explaining life in the fishbowl.
Admission of your inability to address the evidence noted.
Denial is a sure trait of your religion. You confirm it.
Show me any evidence why all the evidence we have is wrong, and I'll change my position! YOU though, have no hope of Ever changing your religious adherence, no matter what evidence is brought to bear - in your universe, reality is FALSE! :D :D :D lol!
Big problem invoking Einstein, in that mere waves do not tell us details of where they came from. Does a G wave tell us distance? Does it tell us if anything else out there might be making waves we don't know about? Does it tell us the exact gravity involved in the supposed star or whatever causing it? Seems to me you simply seek credit for the G waves by attributing them to your belief set. I notice you don't know the times involved either. You see, in some cases, the time involved is millions of years! So when we see something happen for a decade or two, that really would not be an real indicator in the big picture.
Denial is all you have?? Discarded for fantasy wishes wanting reality to be wrong.
Waves exist. Now whether gravity is the same or the objects the size and distance you think, or anything else may also be at work we are not familiar with on earth...etc etc..we don't know.
Your self-imposed ignorance is no excuse. Discarded for more baseless assertions that we can't know what we actually do know.
Easy. E is only energy in the fishbowl. M is irrelevant in far space where there may be more than physical only objects, and mass is not known anyhow because distances are required for that. C is the time involved in the fishbowl for light moving! Ha haha
Now, Support it. Evidence or theoretical calculations demonstrating consistency of resulting calculations using your supposed assertions. Perhaps try a lorentz transformation on acquired observational data to prove your point? I tell you what, why not disprove the Hertzsprung-Russel diagram, or disprove redshifted spectrum of distant stars? All are Nobel winning propositions if you care to try?

Again, not holding my breath on those assertions of yours...
No distances/sizes are known unless time exists the same all the way at all points. That is not known, so distances are not known.
Time is as we expect, otherwise we wouldn't know about things out there. Your baseless and hollow fantasies can be safely discarded yet again.
Great, so something has increasingly fast orbits out there. Whooopee do. Tel us in ten millions years if your theory worked out eh.
It has already been demonstrated to predict accurate things as you saw earlier: https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/...adorzel/files/2015/07/hulse_taylor_pulsar.jpg , the Blue line was the prediction and the red dots were the observations overlaid to test the prediction. We make accurate predictions all the time - not sure which rock you've been hiding under...
How many merged this week?
Not sure, but we might be able to detect more with future upgrades to the LIGO sensors, as many as a collision every few minutes.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...00000-black-hole-mergers-a-year/#b4a675366c37

"Since 2015, LIGO has seen the ripples in spacetime or gravitational waves from no fewer than six separate events. Five (and possibly more) black hole-black hole pairs and one neutron star-neutron star inspiral-and-merger had their unique, unmistakable signatures detected by multiple gravitational wave detectors simultaneously, enabling us to confirm a key prediction of Einstein's General Relativity that had eluded experimentalists for a century. But in theory, black hole-black hole mergers should occur every few minutes somewhere in the Universe; LIGO is missing more than 100,000 of these annually. For the first time, a team of scientists may just have figured out how to detect all the mergers that LIGO is currently missing."​
Seen a ringdown this week by any chance? Polly wolly dingdong fables.
:D lol! You Really, REALLY, REALLY need all this to be somehow wrong, don't you? lol! It's not going to go away! :D :D :D
Fantastical tale. 1.3 imaginary light years away, something 3 times the mass of the sun to form a black hole 62 times the mass of the sun. Blah blah. Too bad you really know no sizes or distances or what black holes are really for in creation...etc etc. You have religion.
Oh, More Incredibly Fantastically Unsupported Assertions!!! Discarded until you can support it with something Meaningful!
My beliefs are already known to be true. Never will they need dropping. We shall never be moved. The evidences on hand show that science is stuck firmly in the fishbowl, mind heart and soul.
And here we have a demonstration of the damage to rational thinking that fundamentally religious indoctrination of an obvious and demonstrably incorrect interpretation of your religion can do in the face of indisputable evidence to the contrary. This is why I don't sit idly by while this faulty epistemology is so rife in our civilisations...
Says you. However, God created time, so He exists fine with no need for it. Angels have no need of it as a restriction as they can traverse the universe in a heartbeat or less. Their existence, and that of believers, is not temporal, but eternal.
Prove it.
The space between the heaven of heavens (beyond our universe boundary) and earth does not need to exist in no time as you suggest. There may be time of some sort there. The thing is, what sort?! Your whole tact is to insist it has to be fishbowl time.
And given all of the accurate predictions we've made based on the observations and subsequent mathematical models we've made here, they are the same predictable measurable state everywhere we look. it's on you to demonstrate otherwise and I know you'll never be able to.

:D
 
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Oh, more assertions without substance.
Your unfamiliarity with substance is no excuse. The religion of so called science, IS assertions without substance.

If it didn't do the same out there than it does here, we would either see something very different to what we'd expect to see (slim possibility), or we wouldn't see it at all (most likely). Discarded for lack of substance.
Vague balderdash. What would we see if time were not the same out there?
Admission of your inability to address the evidence noted.
Your inability to use the word evidence properly is the actual issue. Not addressing the topic at all, and providing strawman links is not addressing anything. That is running and hiding and denying.
Show me any evidence why all the evidence we have is wrong, and I'll change my position! YOU though, have no hope of Ever changing your religious adherence, no matter what evidence is brought to bear - in your universe, reality is FALSE! :D :D :D lol!
None of the 'evidence' which was actually religious twaddle anyhow) you spammed even addressed the issue of the nature of time far far far away. Fishbowl dreams does not do it.
. Perhaps try a lorentz transformation on acquired observational data to prove your point? I tell you what, why not disprove the Hertzsprung-Russel diagram, or disprove redshifted spectrum of distant stars? All are Nobel winning propositions if you care to try?
What causes red shifting here does not have to be the cause far away. You just weld the universe to fit your beliefs. From wiki, regarding the HR diagram, I see this.

"
This was also the form of the diagram using apparent magnitudes of a cluster of stars all at the same distance.[5]

Russell's early (1913) versions of the diagram included Maury's giant stars identified by Hertzsprung, those nearby stars with parallaxes measured at the time,.."

In other words, they assume time was the same as the premise! Absolutely circular. Religion.

Also in wiki, about Lorenz, we see this

"In physics, the Lorentz transformations (or transformation) are coordinate transformations between two coordinate frames that move at constant velocity relative to each other."

In other words...fishbowl coordinates based on the one frame of fishbowl reference. Ho hum...you kidding??
Time is as we expect, otherwise we wouldn't know about things out there.
That says nothing at all. Time is here, and things are seen IN time here. All things! No exceptions. That could not tell us anything about what a different time would be like somewhere else.
the Blue line was the prediction and the red dots were the observations overlaid to test the prediction. We make accurate predictions all the time - not sure which rock you've been hiding under...
? 47 year observations? That does not test billions of years. Nor does it test the claims of what stars are and how they got here. Tell us what you think some pulsing for less than 50 years tells us?
Not sure, but we might be able to detect more with future upgrades to the LIGO sensors, as many as a collision every few minutes.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...00000-black-hole-mergers-a-year/#b4a675366c37
Let me help then with the sort of time frames involved..


"Neutron stars are no better; the binaries we’ve found won’t result in a collision for some 80 million years.

Powerful relativistic effects will cause this orbit to decay, leading to a merger within 1,000 years.

A long-period space-based gravitational wave detector would see the orbit, inspiral, and merger as it unfolds: a cosmic first."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nvidia...recognition-for-faster-insights/#125ebd262c1e

OK, so usually great time is involved. In the case of the one they expect to merge soon, it is 1000 years.

That would be a 'first'. Ha.

Get back to us when you have actual facts or data. Then we can discuss what black holes really are, and their actual purpose and function in creation. Your religion simply is a bunch of often circular beliefs. Period.
We might also look at what really cause the waves you think are earth type G waves.

And given all of the accurate predictions we've made based on the observations and subsequent mathematical models we've made here,
Correct, based on the fishbowl alone!!!

they are the same predictable measurable state everywhere we look.
Calm down...NO. You may not impose your fishbowl realities on all the created universe for no reason.
 
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Your unfamiliarity with substance is no excuse. The religion of so called science, IS assertions without substance.
More baseless assertions.
Vague balderdash. What would we see if time were not the same out there?
Depends - Just like an old LP would sound different when you sped it up or slowed it down, light photons appear as different colours due to vibration energy on being emitted, blue shifted for faster time and redshifted for slower time. If there were no time when these photons were emitted, then they wouldn't have been emitted to start with, because NO TIME! Try this, take the time away from your playing LP (I.e. physically stop the record turntable dead still), and what do you hear? Nothing. nothing at all. Same with light from a source outside of time. This is Basic Physics 101.
Your inability to use the word evidence properly is the actual issue. Not addressing the topic at all, and providing strawman links is not addressing anything. That is running and hiding and denying.
More wishful thinking without evidence. Provide some evidence to address in the first place.
None of the 'evidence' which was actually religious twaddle anyhow) you spammed even addressed the issue of the nature of time far far far away. Fishbowl dreams does not do it.
Yet it makes accurate predictions on what we'd expect to see, almost as if everything out there was exactly the same as it is here! Go figure....
What causes red shifting here does not have to be the cause far away. You just weld the universe to fit your beliefs. From wiki, regarding the HR diagram, I see this.

"This was also the form of the diagram using apparent magnitudes of a cluster of stars all at the same distance.[5]

Russell's early (1913) versions of the diagram included Maury's giant stars identified by Hertzsprung, those nearby stars with parallaxes measured at the time,.."

In other words, they assume time was the same as the premise! Absolutely circular. Religion.
Parallax measurements don't incorporate time, as much as you wish it did, so you completely struck out there for the umpteenth time...
Also in wiki, about Lorenz, we see this

"In physics, the Lorentz transformations (or transformation) are coordinate transformations between two coordinate frames that move at constant velocity relative to each other."

In other words...fishbowl coordinates based on the one frame of fishbowl reference. Ho hum...you kidding??
so you can't demonstrate it then? :D Top job dad, top job - thanks for proving yourself predictable once again!
That says nothing at all. Time is here, and things are seen IN time here. All things! No exceptions. That could not tell us anything about what a different time would be like somewhere else.
Explained why you're mistaken above.
? 47 year observations? That does not test billions of years. Nor does it test the claims of what stars are and how they got here. Tell us what you think some pulsing for less than 50 years tells us?
Do you need to know how cars came about and who made them in order to drive down the road & back? We predicted what we should see ahead of the observations, and the subsequent observations verified the predictions. Pretty much every time we make predictions with the models of physics and cosmology we have developed here
Let me help then with the sort of time frames involved..

"Neutron stars are no better; the binaries we’ve found won’t result in a collision for some 80 million years.

Powerful relativistic effects will cause this orbit to decay, leading to a merger within 1,000 years.

A long-period space-based gravitational wave detector would see the orbit, inspiral, and merger as it unfolds: a cosmic first."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nvidia...recognition-for-faster-insights/#125ebd262c1e

OK, so usually great time is involved. In the case of the one they expect to merge soon, it is 1000 years.

That would be a 'first'. Ha.

Get back to us when you have actual facts or data. Then we can discuss what black holes really are, and their actual purpose and function in creation. Your religion simply is a bunch of often circular beliefs. Period.
We might also look at what really cause the waves you think are earth type G waves.
How do you know black holes even exist?? You wouldn't know about them if it weren't for the predictions afforded by Science and Einsteins Theory of General and Special Relativity...

On the Black Hole mergers, we've seen the gravitational results of four collisions so far, from https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nsed-in-u-s-and-italy/?utm_term=.c6716c5ee035 :

"When two black holes merged 1.8 billion light-years away, their violent union sent shock waves through space and time. On Aug. 14, three precisely tuned machines sensed the cosmic fallout, a ripple known as a gravitational wave. August's event marked the fourth time that astronomers have observed black hole collisions."​

The great thing about a universe this big is that very rare things are happening all the time! Your denial is rampant in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Kinda sad, really....
Correct, based on the fishbowl alone!!!
...which of course wouldn't work if it weren't the same out there too!
Calm down...NO. You may not impose your fishbowl realities on all the created universe for no reason.
And of course the golden reason we do is because No other model works out there, sorry to tell you! :D
 
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Depends - Just like an old LP would sound different when you sped it up or slowed it down, light photons appear as different colours due to vibration energy on being emitted, blue shifted for faster time and redshifted for slower time.
Wrong analogy. An LP was designed to go at a certain speed. You cannot say time was designed to be of a certain nature in all the universe that is wholly assumed.

If there were no time when these photons were emitted, then they wouldn't have been emitted to start with, because NO TIME!
The issue is whether time and space were the same, not whether they exited at all. If there were a different mix of time and space than we know, then we could not assume that the time involved in...anything...was the same.

Try this, take the time away from your playing LP (I.e. physically stop the record turntable dead still), and what do you hear? Nothing. nothing at all. Same with light from a source outside of time. This is Basic Physics 101.
Man cannot take time away from anything. That is the problem you face with parallax measure when you try to take time out of the base line and use only the space.

Yet it makes accurate predictions on what we'd expect to see, almost as if everything out there was exactly the same as it is here! Go figure....
No. It makes so called predictions that are often after the fact, by running a computer sim to determine what 'must have happened'! Other predictions simply fail fail fail fail. I daresay the failed predictions probably far outnumber the ones that either did not fail or are not YET known to be a fail!
On the wonderful winning other hand, we have bible prophesies by the hundreds and hundreds that are 100% accurate. Part of the prophesies yet to be fulfilled in the bible, by the way show us that the religious claims of science are absolutely wrong!
Parallax measurements don't incorporate time, as much as you wish it did, so you completely struck out there for the umpteenth time...
Tell us your formula for ridding time from space? Or maybe your concept of time is simply totally in error? Maybe you think clocks are time? Maybe you think time is artificial and imaginary and just a construct of movement in space or..etc? Do tell. I say time is real.

Do you need to know how cars came about and who made them in order to drive down the road & back? We predicted what we should see ahead of the observations, and the subsequent observations verified the predictions. Pretty much every time we make predictions with the models of physics and cosmology we have developed here
If you claimed toyotas were circling black holes...yes.
How do you know black holes even exist?? You wouldn't know about them if it weren't for the predictions afforded by Science and Einsteins Theory of General and Special Relativity...
I use the term loosely. In other words, what science calls black holes.
On the Black Hole mergers, we've seen the gravitational results of four collisions so far, from https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nsed-in-u-s-and-italy/?utm_term=.c6716c5ee035 :

"When two black holes merged 1.8 billion light-years away, their violent union sent shock waves through space and time. On Aug. 14, three precisely tuned machines sensed the cosmic fallout, a ripple known as a gravitational wave. August's event marked the fourth time that astronomers have observed black hole collisions."​
A collision (or something else) that may be 2 light years away for all we know, since we do not know sizes or distances, caused waves that, as seen on earth were interpreted as G waves...
The great thing about a universe this big is that very rare things are happening all the time!
You have no idea how big or what things for the most part are actually happening.
...which of course wouldn't work if it weren't the same out there too!
Nothing about anything 'working' out there requires earth time.
And of course the golden reason we do is because No other model works out there, sorry to tell you! :D
What may or may not work in your religion and within your little fishbowl concepts is of precious little concern or value.
 
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