• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Jellyfish in the brains of science deeply insult mankind.

Bugeyedcreepy

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2016
1,660
1,431
Canberra, Australia
✟95,748.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Then what's this?

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,


That "fulness of the time" consisted of three things:

1. A sacredotal system up and in place to show the world the need for sacrifice.
2. A near universal Greek language to allow the world to hear the Gospel message.
3. Roman roads that allowed the Gospel message spread the fastest.
Still not answering the question! Why the need for Sacrifice at all in the first place? Why do the ultimate sacrifice (that isn't needed btw) in next to no company at all? Any God worth their salt would ensure there was more visibility of such a thing, you know, pull a Ghandi, or Mother Teresa - become popular internationally for your good deeds, maybe at the pinnacle of that popularity, raise a Lazarus or two with the world looking on, and Voila! World Prominence and No Sacrifice! There you go! Again, I'm Not even a God and I can think of better solutions!
Your answer is in your question.

Read what you just wrote.

How did they become "His followers" in the first place?
People fall for any number of cults and false beliefs all the time - it's in our nature. Have you heard of the term "It's easy to fool some of the people all the time, or all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."? How are there Hindu followers? Islam followers? Buddhism followers? Each has hundreds of millions, if not billions more followers than Jesus did while he was alive. Seems easy enough to fool them billions into being followers...
The only ones who have trouble with believing in God are academians, who are taught to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You still haven't been able to point out that baby yet... it also seems particularly arbitrary the different emphasis you base otherwise identical circumstances for your bathwater over everyone elses, given you have thrown out all the other babies with their bathwater, why is this bathwater any different?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
Even were that the case, what does the Creator of the Universe need with blood?

The shedding of blood in the Garden was a picture of Jesus shedding His blood on the Cross, for your sins. Is that too hard for you to understand? Who do you think should shed their blood to pay for your sins? You seem to want to pay for your own sins. Amen?

BTW, Jesus was all man and all God and He took on the likeness of sinful flesh and blood in order to save all of us from our own sins. Rom 8:3
 
Upvote 0

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
There is evidence the continents divided, and your way of determining time is belief based, not fact.

Not so, since I support my view with actual evidence instead of some ancient theologian's opinion. When you can explain WHY there is NO physical evidence of the continents dividing, i will wait until you supply your "religious opinion" before I decide. Keep it short please.
 
Upvote 0

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
Windows of heaven involved more than our physics.

God called the firmament "Heaven". Gen 1:8 The windows of "Heaven" were in the top of the firmament or Adam's completely enclosed self-sufficient and transportable small world. When the "windows on high" were opened, Isa 24:18 it rained for 40 days and nights Gen 7:4 and the bottom of the firmament sank, leaving the covered 450 ft Ark in Lake Van, Turkey in the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4 That is God's provable Truth. Amen?
 
Upvote 0

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
The flood rose 22 feet above the high mountains of the day.

Out of context with what is actually written.

Gen 7:18 shows that the Ark lifted off the ground on the 40th day of the flood. Gen 7:19 shows the flood prevailed or covered the highest hills on Adam's Earth. Then we see how deep the water prevailed on Adam's FLAT Earth.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Doesn't compute and doesn't agree with your past time whatever. The waters PREVAILED and covered the highest mountains on Adam's flat Earth when they were 22.5 feet deep. Ancient men thought what you thought and passed their "beliefs" right on down to you. Amen?
 
Upvote 0

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
He's God, is he not?

Of course He is God AND He knows how to live forever and that is to never violate any of His commandments. Jesus HAD to die because He formed mankind and gave him life. Justice demands that someone pay for all of the sins and terrors brought on by violent mankind. Only the sinless Creator could offer His Own Life for the sins of us all. God accepted His sacrifice for mankind's sins. Why can't you?
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't care what it says - I have no sway either way. What I want to know, are things in the Bible "Not" Literal? For example, in 1 Samuel 2:8 where it says "...for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.", do you interpret this to mean the Earth is literally set on Pillars?

Ahh, a loving, bloodthirsty God. Got it. but Why the sacrifices, where destroying his creation and bloodletting it back to him via fire makes any sense? He Created It! Why would he then make rules requiring his creation to destroy his other creations and bloodlet it back to him by flame and smoke? Does Jesus need the blood to surrogate an offering to himself when he kills himself to serve as a loophole for rules he put in place to start with?

Perhaps to you as a Christian - to me, it's a holiday and a time to celebrate the love and company of family and friends, something Jesus wasn't really a fan of. These celebrations were in place a long time before Christianity was around.

Well, You as it turns out - You're the one claiming that Jesus! is the One and Only Reason for the Winter Solstice celebrations - and that simply isn't the case at all. We've even determined that nobody actually knows when Jesus was born (if he existed as a single source for all the stories in the first place), let alone that December 25th is that day...

For a God who wanted to offer salvation to the world, there's a terrible lot of stuff he forgot to cover.

I'm still not convinced Gods even exist - but to answer your question - Because these aren't the actions of a God of all creation. It sounds more like a wargod of a particular tribe that too many people hundreds, or thousands of years after the fact, have retroactively latched onto as the creator of the universe.

So he didn't care for his word to be widely understood and followed.... like a Tribal Wargod rather than an all-knowing creator of the universe.

So the human race was never reduced to just 8 examples on a methane choked boat for a year. There's no genetic radiation entirely from the middle east at any point in the history of humans. Therefore, a Worldwide Flood that wiped out everyone except Noah and his family, is literally impossible.
Seems like Av1 has answered your religious questions. That saves time for me.
If only you knew the hilarity of your comment... I have no doubt you think you made a point, and that just makes me laugh harder...!! :D
You should realize, even as a 'layman' that atoms affect how molecules work? You should realize the forces that exist such as the strong nuclear force...affect atoms? Making a long story short, the nature/state that exists affects genetics. Therefore to claim genetics was the same is to declare the nature was the same. No can do.
LOL! :D You don't have a record, you just have a Claim! Do you even understand the nature of Evidence? No scientific theory is done by just writing something in a Scientific Journal somewhere, and everyone going ".... Seems Legit! Let's run with it!" like you do with your Bible, Theories are rigorously tested by scientists all over the world - results are checked against the existing body of data and evidence, and if necessary, refined and repeated, or if they fail, are dropped as theories when a better one is found. That's exactly Why Science knows what you think it can't know. Even I as a Layperson can take the time to learn the specifics of the subject to make my own assessment of the observations and/or data to verify the science findings for myself. On the other hand, to just blithely set aside all the research and observations in favour of your preferred wish, is just not honest, and that being the case, you have no reason being in the Science forum in the first place.
The claim is from science...they claim it was the same. The evidence does not exist for the claim, as it is merely assumed.
There's the claim - still not seeing any supporting evidence for it. All the evidence we do have points to genetics having always existed since the start of life on this planet, and we've been able to make quite a number of deep-time predictions that wouldn't have been possible if your fantasy past scenario were real.
Name a deep time prediction on genetics??
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not so, since I support my view with actual evidence instead of some ancient theologian's opinion. When you can explain WHY there is NO physical evidence of the continents dividing, i will wait until you supply your "religious opinion" before I decide. Keep it short please.
Well, show us your actual evidence for the deep time then.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God called the firmament "Heaven". Gen 1:8 The windows of "Heaven" were in the top of the firmament or Adam's completely enclosed self-sufficient and transportable small world. When the "windows on high" were opened, Isa 24:18 it rained for 40 days and nights Gen 7:4 and the bottom of the firmament sank, leaving the covered 450 ft Ark in Lake Van, Turkey in the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4 That is God's provable Truth. Amen?
Sorry, this is gibberish.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Out of context with what is actually written.

Gen 7:18 shows that the Ark lifted off the ground on the 40th day of the flood. Gen 7:19 shows the flood prevailed or covered the highest hills on Adam's Earth. Then we see how deep the water prevailed on Adam's FLAT Earth.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Doesn't compute and doesn't agree with your past time whatever. The waters PREVAILED and covered the highest mountains on Adam's flat Earth when they were 22.5 feet deep. Ancient men thought what you thought and passed their "beliefs" right on down to you. Amen?
Your opinion is opinion. I think mountains were smaller before the flood, but the verse you cite is not related to that.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,999
52,622
Guam
✟5,143,639.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think mountains were smaller before the flood,
Coulda been taller too.

Much, much taller than Mt Everest.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

If a global flood whittled the mountins of Ararat down to what they are today, then I surmise the mountains were much taller.

On the other hand, if God re-terraformed the Earth just before Noah got off the Ark, then the mountains indeed could have been smaller.
 
Upvote 0

Bugeyedcreepy

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2016
1,660
1,431
Canberra, Australia
✟95,748.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The shedding of blood in the Garden was a picture of Jesus shedding His blood on the Cross, for your sins. Is that too hard for you to understand? Who do you think should shed their blood to pay for your sins? You seem to want to pay for your own sins. Amen?

BTW, Jesus was all man and all God and He took on the likeness of sinful flesh and blood in order to save all of us from our own sins. Rom 8:3
Firstly, if I do wrong by someone, then yes, It's on ME to make amends to them for it. If I break my neighbour's window, sacrificing a lamb to an invisible deity isn't what makes things right, apologising to my Neighbour and paying to fix the window is actually the right thing to do.

Blood sacrifice is the most inane, barbaric way to not address the problem. I'm not even sure Jesus existed, let alone that he died for a difficult weekend before resuming as the ruler of the universe for an eternity to serve as a loophole for rules he put in place to start with.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Coulda been taller too.

Much, much taller than Mt Everest.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

If a global flood whittled the mountins of Ararat down to what they are today, then I surmise the mountains were much taller.

On the other hand, if God re-terraformed the Earth just before Noah got off the Ark, then the mountains indeed could have been smaller.
I go with the interpretation that the waters covered the highest mountains 20 feet or so.

If mountains were much higher then Everest that would mean water many many miles high. If the highest mountain was only say, about 4000 feet high, that is a lot less water. The waters had to go down so animals could live and man after the year of the flood. It seems to be something like hundreds of times more cubic miles of water involved if they covered mountains higher than Everest. That is a lot of water to fall in several months/weeks, and a lot to get rid of in a hurry.

The way the waters dried apparently as told to us in the bible is by a mighty wind God sent. That would be some wind that dried the waters of a planet in weeks if the waters were 6 or seven miles deep!
 
Upvote 0

Bugeyedcreepy

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2016
1,660
1,431
Canberra, Australia
✟95,748.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Of course He is God AND He knows how to live forever and that is to never violate any of His commandments. Jesus HAD to die because He formed mankind and gave him life. Justice demands that someone pay for all of the sins and terrors brought on by violent mankind. Only the sinless Creator could offer His Own Life for the sins of us all. God accepted His sacrifice for mankind's sins. Why can't you?
Why should I? Again, why is it necessary? If I do something wrong, then that's for me to fix. Why does God require Blood in the first place? and Why do I need his forgiveness if I do wrong by someone else, shouldn't I seek that someone else's forgiveness??

You're not making much sense. If God wants to forgive us, then he can just forgive us. There's no need for blood sacrifice.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

Bugeyedcreepy

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2016
1,660
1,431
Canberra, Australia
✟95,748.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Seems like Av1 has answered your religious questions. That saves time for me.
I'd rather hear your answers, because he's avoided the harder questions for some reason, and really didn't make the effort to address all of what I asked of you - so to repeat:

You seem to be among those that mistakenly think the bible said the world was flat.
I don't care what it says - I have no sway either way. What I want to know, are things in the Bible "Not" Literal? For example, in 1 Samuel 2:8 where it says "...for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.", do you interpret this to mean the Earth is literally set on Pillars?
As mentioned before, the blood sacrifices and other things that God had Israel do all pointed to Jesus, and also lessons they needed to learn, such as not lying to God.
Ahh, a loving, bloodthirsty God. Got it. but Why the sacrifices, where destroying his creation and bloodletting it back to him via fire makes any sense? He Created It! Why would he then make rules requiring his creation to destroy his other creations and bloodlet it back to him by flame and smoke? Does Jesus need the blood to surrogate an offering to himself when he kills himself to serve as a loophole for rules he put in place to start with?
The One born that day or celebrated being born on that day is the point actually, not pagan practices of old.
Perhaps to you as a Christian - to me, it's a holiday and a time to celebrate the love and company of family and friends, something Jesus wasn't really a fan of. These celebrations were in place a long time before Christianity was around.
If the Almighty chose to be born on some day that some demon god or emperor also celebrated...who really cares?
Well, You as it turns out - You're the one claiming that Jesus! is the One and Only Reason for the Winter Solstice celebrations - and that simply isn't the case at all. We've even determined that nobody actually knows when Jesus was born (if he existed as a single source for all the stories in the first place), let alone that December 25th is that day...

For a God who wanted to offer salvation to the world, there's a terrible lot of stuff he forgot to cover.
Why question God? He had to pick sinners of some sort, there is no one else on earth.
I'm still not convinced Gods even exist - but to answer your question - Because these aren't the actions of a God of all creation. It sounds more like a wargod of a particular tribe that too many people hundreds, or thousands of years after the fact, have retroactively latched onto as the creator of the universe.
They are not the same either. So?
So he didn't care for his word to be widely understood and followed.... like a Tribal Wargod rather than an all-knowing creator of the universe.
In other words records of people before writing was part of man's experiences. So?
So the human race was never reduced to just 8 examples on a methane choked boat for a year. There's no genetic radiation entirely from the middle east at any point in the history of humans. Therefore, a Worldwide Flood that wiped out everyone except Noah and his family, is literally impossible.​
You should realize, even as a 'layman' that atoms affect how molecules work? You should realize the forces that exist such as the strong nuclear force...affect atoms? Making a long story short, the nature/state that exists affects genetics. Therefore to claim genetics was the same is to declare the nature was the same. No can do.
I agree they'd be different, and those differences would leave very obvious tell-tale signs that wouldn't be missed when we observe them today.
The claim is from science...they claim it was the same. The evidence does not exist for the claim, as it is merely assumed.
Well, this is just plain wrong. All of the evidence we have shows no difference in any state past. We can see stars billions of light years away as they were billions of years ago, We can tell their compositions, sizes and distances, all of which would not correlate in any different state past. Change any underlying laws of physics for any state past and we would at the very least, see wildly differing results in the observations we get - each star would give readings that show it to be both very far away, and untenably close at the same time - we just don't see this. In more dramatic changes, we wouldn't even know distant stars were there and/or life wouldn't have existed here until this state we know of existed.
Name a deep time prediction on genetics??
Endogenous retroviruses is one - mutation rates are another...
 
  • Like
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0