The Jellyfish in the brains of science deeply insult mankind.

[Jon Osterman]

Citation please.

You should just stop feeding the trolls. It is no good debating them. AV1611VET and dad are not real people - they are made up personalities designed to troll us. No-one could be that stupid.

 

[dad]

I don't care what it says - I have no sway either way. What I want to know, are things in the Bible "Not" Literal? For example, in 1 Samuel 2:8 where it says "...for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.", do you interpret this to mean the Earth is literally set on Pillars?​

I don't know. I assume there was or are some sort of foundational supports that were first created in the planet. But since man has never been down there at all, it seems above the pay grade of science.

Ahh, a loving, bloodthirsty God. Got it. but Why the sacrifices, where destroying his creation and bloodletting it back to him via fire makes any sense?

It is a serious thing for man to have disobeyed God in Eden, and followed lies and death. It is no light matter, and the price God had to pay to get us back and give us life everlasting was horrible. His people were taught from the beginning out of the garden that only by blood was sin forgiven. That is because nothing else but the blood/life/ransom of One who was perfect could redeem us from death and hell. It all pointed to the Lamb of God who was coming one day.

Perhaps to you as a Christian - to me, it's a holiday and a time to celebrate the love and company of family and friends, something Jesus wasn't really a fan of. These celebrations were in place a long time before Christianity was around.

No. There was no celebration of Jesus before Christmas. I do not really care what vile and silly practices were also done on that day before it was picked to celebrate the Prince of Peace.

Well, You as it turns out - You're the one claiming that Jesus! is the One and Only Reason for the Winter Solstice celebrations

No. I am saying that the day was chosen to celebrate the birth of the Lamb of God. Since no one knows the day, hey, why not?

I'm still not convinced Gods even exist - but to answer your question - Because these aren't the actions of a God of all creation. It sounds more like a wargod of a particular tribe that too many people hundreds, or thousands of years after the fact, have retroactively latched onto as the creator of the universe.

In this sin filled fallen world, any God of any people better be warlike to keep them alive! The Lord of hosts is our God, and He kept Israel and He will take over the world soon by force. Thank heaven!
​

So the human race was never reduced to just 8 examples on a methane choked boat for a year. There's no genetic radiation entirely from the middle east at any point in the history of humans. Therefore, a Worldwide Flood that wiped out everyone except Noah and his family, is literally impossible.

The best designed boat in history was very capable of doing the trip it was designed for in a healthy way. Probably God had most animals in hibernation or semi hibernation.

I agree they'd be different, and those differences would leave very obvious tell-tale signs that wouldn't be missed when we observe them today.

No. If for example some retro viri used to transfer via the air, or water...etc etc...but in this state, they now are only transferred by birth/offspring, one would be hopelessly muddled trying to explain why they are where they are now using only offspring as the way of transfer! If no DNA from the former nature survived, and it was quite different than the DNA of today, one would be hopelessly lost in trying to retrace ancient DNA! Science IS hopelessly lost.

Well, this is just plain wrong. All of the evidence we have shows no difference in any state past.

You only look in this state, and you also assume this nature is the key to the past.

We can see stars billions of light years away as they were billions of years ago, We can tell their compositions, sizes and distances, all of which would not correlate in any different state past.

Look the stars could be tiny and in the future rather than the past for all we really know!!!! You see time is a funny thing. You only assumed it was the same in deep space. All distances/sizes that you model depend on that one belief!

Change any underlying laws of physics for any state past and we would at the very least, see wildly differing results in the observations we get - each star would give readings that show it to be both very far away, and untenably close at the same time - we just don't see this.

False.


If you use fishbowl space and time as the ruler/measure...they will appear uniformly a certain way...to you!

 

[Aman777]

Well, show us your actual evidence for the deep time then.

Deep time is a figment of your imagination...unless you can show us actual evidence...which I don't think you can. Want to try?

 

[Aman777]

"...for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and He hath set the world upon them.", do you interpret this to mean the Earth is literally set on Pillars?

For the supporting pillars of the Earth are the Lord's, and He hath set the world upon them, refers to the support Jesus set our Cosmos on when He caused the big bang. Science calls it gravity. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Firstly, if I do wrong by someone, then yes, It's on ME to make amends to them for it. If I break my neighbour's window, sacrificing a lamb to an invisible deity isn't what makes things right, apologising to my Neighbour and paying to fix the window is actually the right thing to do.

Apples and Oranges. You cannot make amends to mankind because you are not sinlessly perfect, but Jesus was. Jhn 8:7 Heb 4:15 Heb 9:28 Only God the Creator/Jesus could satisfy Justice for the evil done by mankind AND the only way was to live that sinless life the perfect God demands, become eligible to enter Heaven, and then give up your own immortality to save others from eternal death. Otherwise, the perfect Heaven could not come into being until Justice is satisfied. Our God is an Awesome God.

Blood sacrifice is the most inane, barbaric way to not address the problem. I'm not even sure Jesus existed, let alone that he died for a difficult weekend before resuming as the ruler of the universe for an eternity to serve as a loophole for rules he put in place to start with.

God gave up His Immortality for you by shedding His blood. IF there had been any other way, but there wasn't, because mankind's sin is so destructive to God's perfect plan.

 

[Aman777]

You're not making much sense. If God wants to forgive us, then he can just forgive us. There's no need for blood sacrifice.

False, since that would destroy God's perfect 3rd Heaven which has NO sin, no disobedience, no death. The only way to live forever is to be perfect even as God is perfect and the only way to be perfect is to be in God Spiritually, because ONLY God is good/perfect.

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[dad]

Deep time is a figment of your imagination...unless you can show us actual evidence...which I don't think you can. Want to try?

Science claims a lot of time is involved in deep space. Not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[AV1611VET]

Citation please.

Post 203

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

QV forthcoming later.

so not in the bible then?

** EDIT: I was ahead of myself, as posted next...

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Post 203

1. Zacharias serves in the Temple in August.

2. Zacharias goes home and Elizabeth conceives [John the Baptist] in September.

3. Six months later, in March, Mary visits her cousin Elizabeth to tell her she is with child.

4. Nine months later, in December, Jesus is born.

Citation please. Where in the Bible is this written?

 

[AV1611VET]

so not in the bible then?

Sorry.

I forgot.

Suskinds need Bible verses to trample.

Here you go:

1. Zacharias serves in the Temple in August.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia:

1 Chronicles 24:10a The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth [August] to Abijah [Abia],

2. Zacharias goes home and Elizabeth conceives [John the Baptist] in September.

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24a And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived,

3. Six months later, in March, Mary visits her cousin Elizabeth to tell her she is with child.

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

4. Nine months later, in December, Jesus is born.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I don't know. I assume there was or are some sort of foundational supports that were first created in the planet. But since man has never been down there at all, it seems above the pay grade of science.

LOL! Science has Tectonic Plate Theory (which incidentally also shows billions of years old Earth), which would go against the Bible's claim that the Earth is set on Pillars and does not move.

It is a serious thing for man to have disobeyed God in Eden, and followed lies and death. It is no light matter, and the price God had to pay to get us back and give us life everlasting was horrible. His people were taught from the beginning out of the garden that only by blood was sin forgiven. That is because nothing else but the blood/life/ransom of One who was perfect could redeem us from death and hell. It all pointed to the Lamb of God who was coming one day.

Why did God put the Serpent, along with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden in the first place? Then, how would Adam or Eve know what they did was Evil until AFTER they ate from that readily accessible Tree of Knowledge planted right there in easy reach (which doesn't seem to serve any other purpose but to condemn all of mankind)? Who put the rules in place that required a Blood Sacrifice for ANYTHING, let alone for the "sin" of being human? Why isn't God powerful enough to just change the rules rather than come up with such a barbaric way to get around the laws HE put in place? Why make us flawed and unable to meet his untenably high standards in the first place?

No. There was no celebration of Jesus before Christmas. I do not really care what vile and silly practices were also done on that day before it was picked to celebrate the Prince of Peace.

Winter Solstice was celebrated before Jesus, A previous Emperor to Constantine decreed December 25th as a Celebration for his Syrian Sun God, etc. There's a few that used the date before it was declared Jesus' birthday.

No. I am saying that the day was chosen to celebrate the birth of the Lamb of God. Since no one knows the day, hey, why not?

Agreed, it helps to have a day... so why not. Point is though, it wasn't (and still isn't for many people) only ever a celebration for your God, in fact, he wasn't even the first to use that date.

In this sin filled fallen world, any God of any people better be warlike to keep them alive! The Lord of hosts is our God, and He kept Israel and He will take over the world soon by force. Thank heaven!

So, he isn't everyone's Creator? Why was he not widely known throughout time? Why rob the vast majority of the world's population of his existence, is his ability to talk to all of us limited for some reason? Why does he only ever talk to one (or a few) at a time? For an all-powerful creator of the Universe, he seems like he just isn't very capable.

The best designed boat in history was very capable of doing the trip it was designed for in a healthy way. Probably God had most animals in hibernation or semi hibernation.

biology doesn't stop during hibernation - but I understand you'll probably just invoke more magic to fill in the holes your story doesn't explain... This is beside the point though, the point I was making is that our genetic record doesn't show our population ever being reduced to 8 people, nor that we all are descended from the one middle east family that landed on a flood-receding mountain several thousand years ago.

No. If for example some retro viri used to transfer via the air, or water...etc etc...but in this state, they now are only transferred by birth/offspring, one would be hopelessly muddled trying to explain why they are where they are now using only offspring as the way of transfer! If no DNA from the former nature survived, and it was quite different than the DNA of today, one would be hopelessly lost in trying to retrace ancient DNA! Science IS hopelessly lost.

Well, you're just uninformed, by choice too I suspect.

Each of those ERVs were likely capable of killing off part of the population it affected. If you think we've accumulated 205,000 ERVs in less than 6,000 years without killing off the vast majority of the animal population on this planet, you're severely deluded. Our genetic record doesn't show it. What's more, we know that ERV's infect at a wide range of loci in our collective genomes, that we share the vast majority of them with other animal life forms shows to any rational thinker that we demonstrably share common ancestors with pretty much all life on this planet.

You only look in this state, and you also assume this nature is the key to the past.

Demonstrate any other state past. Good luck with that because we can't find any evidence of it, and all the evidence we do have shows there has only ever been one state. it's up to you to show otherwise now and I know you couldn't to save your own life.

Look the stars could be tiny and in the future rather than the past for all we really know!!!! You see time is a funny thing. You only assumed it was the same in deep space. All distances/sizes that you model depend on that one belief!

I've shown you plenty of time why you're wrong, you're just too irrational to accept the evidence.

False.


If you use fishbowl space and time as the ruler/measure...they will appear uniformly a certain way...to you!

Nope, to anyone who can make objective evaluations with the observations and facts we have, we are seeing the same state throughout he universe - that you don't understand why you're so wrong in making that short-sighted and uninformed statement about it "looking" the same because we see it "Here" is just hammering home how bad you demonstrate the dunning-kreuger syndrome. You think you know more than the collective scientists, physicists and cosmologists who have studied upwards of a decade to get to these conclusions.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Sorry.

I forgot.

Suskinds need Bible verses to trample.

Here you go:

1. Zacharias serves in the Temple in August.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia:

1 Chronicles 24:10a The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth [August] to Abijah [Abia],

2. Zacharias goes home and Elizabeth conceives [John the Baptist] in September.

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24a And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived,

3. Six months later, in March, Mary visits her cousin Elizabeth to tell her she is with child.

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

4. Nine months later, in December, Jesus is born.

So, Chronicles 24 deals with the redistribution of assets by the Priests Office - 24 parts in fact, so how did you come to this idea that "the eighth to Abijah" was meant to be "August" for "Abia" and not just a plain reading that the "8th lot of 24 goes to Abijah", especially when there are 24 parts being shared in this chapter? What are the other 12 months past December then?

 

[dad]

LOL! Science has Tectonic Plate Theory (which incidentally also shows billions of years old Earth), which would go against the Bible's claim that the Earth is set on Pillars and does not move.

The surface of the earth will be burned with fire right off one day. Also, in the days of the flood and (presumably) later the nature change, there was great upheaval and movement. Even in creation week, there was a lot of surface movements with water and land.

What was deep under did not move. By the way the theory does not show the earth old...it is based on the earth being old.

Why did God put the Serpent, along with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden in the first place? Then, how would Adam or Eve know what they did was Evil until AFTER they ate from that readily accessible Tree of Knowledge planted right there in easy reach (which doesn't seem to serve any other purpose but to condemn all of mankind)? Who put the rules in place that required a Blood Sacrifice for ANYTHING, let alone for the "sin" of being human? Why isn't God powerful enough to just change the rules rather than come up with such a barbaric way to get around the laws HE put in place? Why make us flawed and unable to meet his untenably high standards in the first place?

Maybe we will appreciate eternal life and free will more?

Winter Solstice was celebrated before Jesus, A previous Emperor to Constantine decreed December 25th as a Celebration for his Syrian Sun God, etc. There's a few that used the date before it was declared Jesus' birthday.

So? Who cares what pagans celebrated?

Agreed, it helps to have a day... so why not. Point is though, it wasn't (and still isn't for many people) only ever a celebration for your God, in fact, he wasn't even the first to use that date.

It is so big now that people of many faiths try to fit it into their trips.

So, he isn't everyone's Creator? Why was he not widely known throughout time? Why rob the vast majority of the world's population of his existence, is his ability to talk to all of us limited for some reason? Why does he only ever talk to one (or a few) at a time? For an all-powerful creator of the Universe, he seems like he just isn't very capable.

Adam and Eve departed for God. When He appears to all, it will be when His kingdom comes to earth forever. For whatever reasons, He asks that we believe by faith now.

biology doesn't stop during hibernation - but I understand you'll probably just invoke more magic to fill in the holes your story doesn't explain...

How abut former nature hibernation? We don't know how that worked now.


But with some planters around the ark, they could have grass and all sorts of fast food in that former nature in addition to the supplies they carried.

This is beside the point though, the point I was making is that our genetic record doesn't show our population ever being reduced to 8 people, nor that we all are descended from the one middle east family that landed on a flood-receding mountain several thousand years ago.

Current genetics cannot show..anything about former nature genetics.

Each of those ERVs were likely capable of killing off part of the population it affected. If you think we've accumulated 205,000 ERVs in less than 6,000 years without killing off the vast majority of the animal population on this planet, you're severely deluded.

Likely capable?? In the former nature we were far more resistant to disease, since we lived abut 1000 years. Besides what was an ERV really like in the former state? Who knows?

Our genetic record doesn't show it. What's more, we know that ERV's infect at a wide range of loci in our collective genomes, that we share the vast majority of them with other animal life forms shows to any rational thinker that we demonstrably share common ancestors with pretty much all life on this planet.

No. It shows we share the ERVs! We do not know how it transferred in the former nature or what it was like, or etc etc etc.

Demonstrate any other state past. Good luck with that because we can't find any evidence of it, and all the evidence we do have shows there has only ever been one state. it's up to you to show otherwise now and I know you couldn't to save your own life.

What we find depends on what we look for. They look for present physics/laws/nature causes.

You think you know more than the collective scientists, physicists and cosmologists who have studied upwards of a decade to get to these conclusions.

You kidding? A monkey knows more than them on evolution/creation! I wipe the floor with them.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Apples and Oranges. You cannot make amends to mankind because you are not sinlessly perfect, but Jesus was. Jhn 8:7 Heb 4:15 Heb 9:28 Only God the Creator/Jesus could satisfy Justice for the evil done by mankind AND the only way was to live that sinless life the perfect God demands, become eligible to enter Heaven, and then give up your own immortality to save others from eternal death. Otherwise, the perfect Heaven could not come into being until Justice is satisfied. Our God is an Awesome God.

I don't need to make amends to Mankind, neither did Jesus if he existed - even if Sin were a thing (and I don't accept it is), then I committed no sin by being born. If we were created, then our creator created us imperfect - still not our fault. Your God lays claim to having created Evil in the first place anyway.

Then, you waffle on about this perfect heaven - are you perfect now that you've accepted Jesus as your savior? Will you be perfect in Heaven when you get there? Jesus was the only "perfect" being (debatable), so he took your sins, but you're still not perfect, are you? You'll be in Heaven and still not perfect, so why the unnecessary sacrifice to get imperfect souls into your 3rd heaven? Why not just forgive his imperfect creations that he made as such in the first place? Your God is a confusing God, this blood sacrifice still doesn't make sense.

God gave up His Immortality for you by shedding His blood. IF there had been any other way, but there wasn't, because mankind's sin is so destructive to God's perfect plan.

Of course there's another way! He's God! He can just Forgive us! Why can I forgive those who transgress against me without them sacrificing anything, let alone a blood sacrifice - am I more powerful and loving than your God? God never gave up his immortality, otherwise he wouldn't exist now, would he? If you can tell me where your God is now, then he isn't dead, right? Is God dead, or is he watching us all now?

False, since that would destroy God's perfect 3rd Heaven which has NO sin, no disobedience, no death. The only way to live forever is to be perfect even as God is perfect and the only way to be perfect is to be in God Spiritually, because ONLY God is good/perfect.

Will you have no sin? will you not think or be the person you are now when you get to heaven? will you feel sorrow for any friends or relatives who don't make it to heaven with you? What will you do for eternity? In your opinion, if Jeffrey Dahmer did repent and went to heaven (as seems likely from what we can tell here), would he be sinless AND the same person he was when he was executed?

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Not sure why the quote, is this Jesus admitting he isn't Perfect? or God even?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

The surface of the earth will be burned with fire right off one day. Also, in the days of the flood and (presumably) later the nature change, there was great upheaval and movement. Even in creation week, there was a lot of surface movements with water and land.

What was deep under did not move. By the way the theory does not show the earth old...it is based on the earth being old.

Cool story bro! so, just "wait & see" then? No addressing all the evidence showing the Young Earth to be a false and untenable proposition right now?

Maybe we will appreciate eternal life and free will more?

Would you have free will to punch someone in (the heavenly equivalent of) the face? Can you enjoy a nice Cigar? or will you be fundamentally a different person in Heaven who has an altered will to never want to do such things for an eternity?

So? Who cares what pagans celebrated?

Again, You did! You were mistaken when you claimed it is all about your God and everyone else just wants a part of the action when in fact, it wasn't that at all - it was YOUR God that wanted in on the action when others were already celebrating other things on that date,

It is so big now that people of many faiths try to fit it into their trips.

Go to a Muslim country one Christmas. Same with India and China, the two most populous nations on earth. See how popular Jesus is in those countries.

Adam and Eve departed for God. When He appears to all, it will be when His kingdom comes to earth forever. For whatever reasons, He asks that we believe by faith now.

If he can appear to us all at any time, why not appear to all of us now so we can make an informed decision about our eternal salvation. He doesn't come across as a loving God if he doesn't care enough about us to demonstrate his existence...

How abut former nature hibernation? We don't know how that worked now.

But with some planters around the ark, they could have grass and all sorts of fast food in that former nature in addition to the supplies they carried.

Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter. As for your planters around the Ark, they would've gone nowhere as far as foodstuffs go, whatever condition caused your planters to grow fast food, would cause the animals an equivalent fast growth requiring the proportional increase in calories to compensate, makes that Ark former nature suggestion even worse than it already is.

Current genetics cannot show..anything about former nature genetics.

It sure does, Again, Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

Likely capable?? In the former nature we were far more resistant to disease, since we lived abut 1000 years. Besides what was an ERV really like in the former state? Who knows?

The bible is rife with disease and death because of it - there's no different state past - Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

No. It shows we share the ERVs! We do not know how it transferred in the former nature or what it was like, or etc etc etc.

Yes we do, if we catch it independently to other organisms, we'd have these ERVs found at vastly different loci throught our respective genomes - on the other hand, if a common ancestor caught it and then gave rise to different lineages, then we would see these ERVs at the same loci within each respective genomes, and this is the one we find. Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

What we find depends on what we look for. They look for present physics/laws/nature causes.

We look for evidence, no matter what that evidence indicates. Science has to account for ALL of the evidence and all the evidence demonstrates the same state throughout the existence of this universe. Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

You kidding? A monkey knows more than them on evolution/creation! I wipe the floor with them.

.......BAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, i'm crying,
HOOOOOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, <cough> ...

 

[dad]

Cool story bro! so, just "wait & see" then? No addressing all the evidence showing the Young Earth to be a false and untenable proposition right now?

No such thing exists. Only religious biases and misinfo.

Would you have free will to punch someone in (the heavenly equivalent of) the face? Can you enjoy a nice Cigar? or will you be fundamentally a different person in Heaven who has an altered will to never want to do such things for an eternity?

To the pure, all things are pure...to the wicked all things are evil.

Again, You did! You were mistaken when you claimed it is all about your God and everyone else just wants a part of the action when in fact, it wasn't that at all - it was YOUR God that wanted in on the action when others were already celebrating other things on that date,

Other things few remember or care less about.

Go to a Muslim country one Christmas. Same with India and China, the two most populous nations on earth. See how popular Jesus is in those countries.

I heard there was something like maybe 300 million Christians in China. That is the real sleeping giant. It is a matter of what we do in the heart..not the mall that matters.

If he can appear to us all at any time, why not appear to all of us now so we can make an informed decision about our eternal salvation. He doesn't come across as a loving God if he doesn't care enough about us to demonstrate his existence...

My posts appear to you. Be informed.

Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

Science doesn't know either way. By the way, if the way atoms work/behave changed how would you know by looking only at the change?

As for your planters around the Ark, they would've gone nowhere as far as foodstuffs go, whatever condition caused your planters to grow fast food, would cause the animals an equivalent fast growth requiring the proportional increase in calories to compensate, makes that Ark former nature suggestion even worse than it already is.

No. Plants grew fast. Not animals that I have seen evidence for? I do allow for the possibility that human gestation may have been less though...who knows?

The bible is rife with disease and death because of it - there's no different state past - Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

The bible was NOT rife with it before Babel, that I recall! The evidence mounts!

Yes we do, if we catch it independently to other organisms, we'd have these ERVs found at vastly different loci throught our respective genomes - on the other hand, if a common ancestor caught it and then gave rise to different lineages, then we would see these ERVs at the same loci within each respective genomes, and this is the one we find. Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

How it got to the loci is the question then. In this nature it is via offspring, in the former nature it was...????

We look for evidence, no matter what that evidence indicates. Science has to account for ALL of the evidence and all the evidence demonstrates the same state throughout the existence of this universe. Demonstrate your former nature, then demonstrate how it could exist without being plainly obvious now. If you took the time to learn the Science, you'd understand why that assertion is a complete non-starter.

Actually science is a closed minded, cultish, ritualistically godless methodology that by it's very nature and design can never ever find the truth.

 

[dad]

AV1611VET and dad are not real people - they are made up personalities designed to troll us. No-one could be that stupid.

So if I look in a mirror, no one would be there? Clever.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

No such thing exists. Only religious biases and misinfo.

No comeback, and none of the evidence addressed, just denial. Got it.

To the pure, all things are pure...to the wicked all things are evil.

You didn't answer the question:

Would you have free will to punch someone in (the heavenly equivalent of) the face? Can you enjoy a nice Cigar? or will you be fundamentally a different person in Heaven who has an altered will to never want to do such things for an eternity?​

Other things few remember or care less about.

In your circles, maybe... Again, go to some other countries and enjoy your Christmas celebration there.

I heard there was something like maybe 300 million Christians in China. That is the real sleeping giant. It is a matter of what we do in the heart..not the mall that matters.

a whopping 5.2% of the population, (that includes Catholics too, btw...):

http://www.globalreligiousfutures.org/countries/china#/?affiliations_religion_id=0&affiliations_year=2020&region_name=All Countries&restrictions_year=2016​

Completely overshadowed by Buddhism at around 18%, Folk Religion at around 22% and Unaffiliated at around 52%

My posts appear to you. Be informed.

Okay, but it's a demonstrable fact that you have no understanding of how to determine True things from Nonsense - last person I'd ever take their word unchecked, is yours. If I were a God, the last person I'd send to witness to others on my behalf are the likes of You and AV. Both of you have posted some of the most inane arguments for your particular interpretation of your particular religion as to be more destructive to the goal of converting souls from among people with even a modicum of critical thought.

Science doesn't know either way. By the way, if the way atoms work/behave changed how would you know by looking only at the change?

I challenge you to start a thread in this forum to explain how you think atoms worked in some different state past and I'll meet you there to expand on why this nonsense could never fly. With luck, it'll attract a few here who even work in this field, so they can do a better job of it than I. In short, Science has already demonstrated a same state past, you're just in denial and clearly have no way to counter the evidence.

No. Plants grew fast. Not animals that I have seen evidence for? I do allow for the possibility that human gestation may have been less though...who knows?

No, plants didn't grow fast either. Demonstrate it if you think they did. No evidence that human anything was less/more either. You're just making stuff up on the fly now.

The bible was NOT rife with it before Babel, that I recall! The evidence mounts!

Perhaps, many Christians seemto think that death and disease were a result of the fall. If you say it isn't then I guess you can interpret any which way you like - it's your religion...

How it got to the loci is the question then. In this nature it is via offspring, in the former nature it was...????

via offspring. It's the same now as it was then, and it occurred over hundreds of millions of years to boot.

Actually science is a closed minded, cultish, ritualistically godless methodology that by it's very nature and design can never ever find the truth.

No it isn't supposed to find the truth, it just disproves what is false. If you follow the scientific method, then you're doing Science. All you need to do is document your entire process, complete with the data, observations, facts and the method by which you collected them so that everyone else can replicate your research and validate/disprove your work.

Only holdup here is You. Are you willing to put your research to the test to see if it's False?

 

[dad]

You didn't answer the question:

Would you have free will to punch someone in (the heavenly equivalent of) the face? Can you enjoy a nice Cigar? or will you be fundamentally a different person in Heaven who has an altered will to never want to do such things for an eternity?​

Only the saved will live there, so there won't be fighting in the city of love. We are the same person, and recognizable. As for cigars, I suspect that the loving folks there, would not be blowing smoke on others. But I also think there are superior pleasures there, so that possibly many of the vices we once thought of as pleasure would no longer be desirable.​

In your circles, maybe... Again, go to some other countries and enjoy your Christmas celebration there.

a whopping 5.2% of the population, (that includes Catholics too, btw...):

Remember that most real believers are underground there, and in other places. To look at some church statistics or something is totally off base.
But if there were tens or hundreds of millions of believers there, that means a lot of future conversions...

Okay, but it's a demonstrable fact that you have no understanding of how to determine True things from Nonsense - last person I'd ever take their word unchecked, is yours. If I were a God, the last person I'd send to witness to others on my behalf are the likes of You and AV. Both of you have posted some of the most inane arguments for your particular interpretation of your particular religion as to be more destructive to the goal of converting souls from among people with even a modicum of critical thought.

That depends if you find asking what is actually known by science, and trying to actually believe the bible inane.

I challenge you to start a thread in this forum to explain how you think atoms worked in some different state past and I'll meet you there to expand on why this nonsense could never fly. With luck, it'll attract a few here who even work in this field, so they can do a better job of it than I.

How would I know how atoms worked/would work in a very different set of forces and laws? The end result of the effect on man's life was quite drastic though, and different.

No, plants didn't grow fast either. Demonstrate it if you think they did. No evidence that human anything was less/more either. You're just making stuff up on the fly now.

God planted a garden, and weeks later we ate fruit from trees. That seems fast to me. Not like science can pipe in either way. It is stuck in the present state only rut.

Perhaps, many Christians seemto think that death and disease were a result of the fall. If you say it isn't then I guess you can interpret any which way you like - it's your religion...

Not only before the fall..after. If man lived 1000 years, it is logical that disease did not have the impact it does today.

via offspring. It's the same now as it was then

Why tell stories based on squat?

No it isn't supposed to find the truth, it just disproves what is false. If you follow the scientific method, then you're doing Science. All you need to do is document your entire process, complete with the data, observations, facts and the method by which you collected them so that everyone else can replicate your research and validate/disprove your work.

Documenting a method that cannot lead to truth is a waste of time.

Only holdup here is You. Are you willing to put your research to the test to see if it's False?

The bible already passed all tests.